3 ms·

The possible perspectives that strategy games offer to players is vastly under-explored. Most assume that you control a drone-like army of soldiers, for the sol

by nz 4y ago

The possible perspectives that strategy games offer to players is vastly under-explored. Most assume that you control a drone-like army of soldiers, for the sole purpose of defeating an opponent. The Paradox games add much more nuance to this formula, but there is still a vast domain-space in the genre that is unexplored. For example, I'd like to see a game designed primarily around espionage and class warfare -- you cannot control or deploy armies directly, but you can build a network of allies, and use it to (attempt to) bring about changes in policy and dynamics. Victoria II and III are headed in that direction with the POP mechanics, and modeling the ever-expanding reach of media in the 1800s (there is a reason that most countries centralized on a single national language for the bureaucracy). But yeah, the only reason we haven't seen a credible Cold-War-era strategy game (aside from that one ancient Mac OS game) is because the era involved very little direct military conflict, and game-publishers have not yet figured out the mechanics of how to model a very nuanced conflict like that in a fun way.

goda90 4y ago
You might want to check out Terra Invicta. I only played the demo a bit, but it's basically espionage and politics against competing factions to prepare the world for an alien invasion.
- nz 4y ago
  Cool! Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out. Links (mostly a TODO for myself): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Invicta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Invicta https://www.reddit.com/r/TerraInvicta/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TerraInvicta/ https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/TerraInvicta https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/TerraInvict... https://terrainvictagame.fandom.com/wiki/Terra_Invicta_Wiki https://terrainvictagame.fandom.com/wiki/Terra_Invicta_Wiki
  - orwin 4y ago
    The game, while good (i'd rather play Terra invicta than a lot of 4X games right now), feels unfinished and have some part that are either too easy or take too long. It needs balancing to be clear. But i like that it isn't too micro-intensive. Vicky3 is my new favorite 4X game now. 3rd playthrough, i really like it.
    - bavell 4y ago
      I picked up both games recently and they're sucking up waaayy too much of my time :)
- izacus 4y ago
  Terra Invicta isn't done yet though? It's just early access demo?
  - pmalynin 4y ago
    It’s not really in the demo stage anymore. They have a more expansive game up on steam right now that I very much enjoy.
kelseyfrog 4y ago
In the boardgame world, the importance of Twilight Struggle in its conceptualization of the Cold War cannot be understated. It's digital adaptation is top notch as well.
erehweb 4y ago
You are referring to Balance of Power? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_Power_(video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_Power_(video_game) A very interesting game. The multipolar level of Balance of Power: The 1990 Edition is another great idea but flawed - it's possible to win just by doing nothing and letting your enemy antagonize the world. (Unless perhaps this is ironic commentary by the designer...)
- nz 4y ago
  Yep, that's the one. If you read an interview with the designer Chris Crawford (can't find it at the moment), he mentions that the mechanics/dynamics were inspired by a book/paper called The War Trap by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita (game theorist who wrote some popular books). So a _very_ interesting game. Probably deserves to be revisited/remastered at some point.
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    This is sad... https://web.archive.org/web/20180820035048/http://www.erasmatazz.com/library/interactive-storytelling/why-i-am-ending-further.html https://web.archive.org/web/20180820035048/http://www.erasma... Chris Crawford, 2018 : > Siboot was never intended to be a game; it’s interactive storytelling. The emphasis is on character interaction, and it already offers interesting dramatic character interaction. But people aren’t looking for interesting dramatic character interaction; they’re looking for the things that make great games: challenge, a smooth learning curve, impressive graphics, catchy little tunes to accompany their play. Above all, a game must be winnable. Yet stories aren’t necessarily about winning and losing; they’re about drama. > No matter how good Siboot turned out to be, it would not create the splash I had hoped for. It would not go viral and trigger lots of tweets and viral videos on YouTube. It would certainly attract a small comradeship of people who recognize its importance. Everybody else would be unimpressed. [...] > it will take centuries for civilization to embrace the concept [of algorithmic thinking] [...] > Even worse is in store for us: deep learning AI. [...] > You will NEVER see anything like literature coming out of deep learning AI. [...] > That will stop us dead in our tracks for a few decades. But I can understand that the prospect of "genius only acclaimed long after his death" is not particularly attractive... (Also, I'm not certain that computers able to run interactive fiction are still going to be economically viable in centuries...)
izacus 4y ago
> But yeah, the only reason we haven't seen a credible Cold-War-era strategy game (aside from that one ancient Mac OS game) is because the era involved very little direct military conflict, and game-publishers have not yet figured out the mechanics of how to model a very nuanced conflict like that in a fun way. I think the legendary board game Twilight Struggle comes the closest to modeling the push-and-pull feeling of the Cold War without actually degrading into war. But I can't remember anything else.
- nz 4y ago
  Never played Twilight Stuggle, but it looks like a lot of fun! There seems to be large-ish international community of players (according to Wikipedia). Wikipedia Entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Struggle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Struggle Article: https://www.vice.com/en/article/8q8qp4/twilight-struggle-is-finally-available-on-steam https://www.vice.com/en/article/8q8qp4/twilight-struggle-is-...
  - tannhauser23 4y ago
    It's a fantastic game, I highly recommend it. There is a Steam version if you'd like to try it out. You can play against the AI or match up against a human being.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
erehweb 4y ago
Hidden Agenda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_Agenda_(1988_video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_Agenda_(1988_video_game... is worth a look if you are interested in the Cold War, but it is limited to the perspective of a (fictional) Central American country and has limited replayability.
bobthepanda 4y ago
Paradox already tried making one, but it was abandoned because it became a hot mess in development. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_vs._West_–_A_Hearts_of_Iron_Game https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_vs._West_–_A_Hearts_of_...
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  Strictly speaking, not Paradox Interactive (which is a publisher, not a developer, releasing games pretty far out of the usual PDS fare, like the Magicka series), but fans of Paradox Development Studio games that started their own studio : BL-Logic.

by nz 4y ago

goda90 4y ago

You might want to check out Terra Invicta. I only played the demo a bit, but it's basically espionage and politics against competing factions to prepare the world for an alien invasion.

nz 4y ago
Cool! Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out. Links (mostly a TODO for myself): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Invicta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Invicta https://www.reddit.com/r/TerraInvicta/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TerraInvicta/ https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/TerraInvicta https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/TerraInvict... https://terrainvictagame.fandom.com/wiki/Terra_Invicta_Wiki https://terrainvictagame.fandom.com/wiki/Terra_Invicta_Wiki
- orwin 4y ago
  The game, while good (i'd rather play Terra invicta than a lot of 4X games right now), feels unfinished and have some part that are either too easy or take too long. It needs balancing to be clear. But i like that it isn't too micro-intensive. Vicky3 is my new favorite 4X game now. 3rd playthrough, i really like it.
  - bavell 4y ago
    I picked up both games recently and they're sucking up waaayy too much of my time :)
izacus 4y ago
Terra Invicta isn't done yet though? It's just early access demo?
- pmalynin 4y ago
  It’s not really in the demo stage anymore. They have a more expansive game up on steam right now that I very much enjoy.

kelseyfrog 4y ago

In the boardgame world, the importance of Twilight Struggle in its conceptualization of the Cold War cannot be understated. It's digital adaptation is top notch as well.

erehweb 4y ago

You are referring to Balance of Power? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_Power_(video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_Power_(video_game) A very interesting game. The multipolar level of Balance of Power: The 1990 Edition is another great idea but flawed - it's possible to win just by doing nothing and letting your enemy antagonize the world. (Unless perhaps this is ironic commentary by the designer...)

nz 4y ago
Yep, that's the one. If you read an interview with the designer Chris Crawford (can't find it at the moment), he mentions that the mechanics/dynamics were inspired by a book/paper called The War Trap by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita (game theorist who wrote some popular books). So a _very_ interesting game. Probably deserves to be revisited/remastered at some point.
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  This is sad... https://web.archive.org/web/20180820035048/http://www.erasmatazz.com/library/interactive-storytelling/why-i-am-ending-further.html https://web.archive.org/web/20180820035048/http://www.erasma... Chris Crawford, 2018 : > Siboot was never intended to be a game; it’s interactive storytelling. The emphasis is on character interaction, and it already offers interesting dramatic character interaction. But people aren’t looking for interesting dramatic character interaction; they’re looking for the things that make great games: challenge, a smooth learning curve, impressive graphics, catchy little tunes to accompany their play. Above all, a game must be winnable. Yet stories aren’t necessarily about winning and losing; they’re about drama. > No matter how good Siboot turned out to be, it would not create the splash I had hoped for. It would not go viral and trigger lots of tweets and viral videos on YouTube. It would certainly attract a small comradeship of people who recognize its importance. Everybody else would be unimpressed. [...] > it will take centuries for civilization to embrace the concept [of algorithmic thinking] [...] > Even worse is in store for us: deep learning AI. [...] > You will NEVER see anything like literature coming out of deep learning AI. [...] > That will stop us dead in our tracks for a few decades. But I can understand that the prospect of "genius only acclaimed long after his death" is not particularly attractive... (Also, I'm not certain that computers able to run interactive fiction are still going to be economically viable in centuries...)

izacus 4y ago

> But yeah, the only reason we haven't seen a credible Cold-War-era strategy game (aside from that one ancient Mac OS game) is because the era involved very little direct military conflict, and game-publishers have not yet figured out the mechanics of how to model a very nuanced conflict like that in a fun way. I think the legendary board game Twilight Struggle comes the closest to modeling the push-and-pull feeling of the Cold War without actually degrading into war. But I can't remember anything else.

nz 4y ago
Never played Twilight Stuggle, but it looks like a lot of fun! There seems to be large-ish international community of players (according to Wikipedia). Wikipedia Entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Struggle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Struggle Article: https://www.vice.com/en/article/8q8qp4/twilight-struggle-is-finally-available-on-steam https://www.vice.com/en/article/8q8qp4/twilight-struggle-is-...
- tannhauser23 4y ago
  It's a fantastic game, I highly recommend it. There is a Steam version if you'd like to try it out. You can play against the AI or match up against a human being.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

erehweb 4y ago

Hidden Agenda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_Agenda_(1988_video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_Agenda_(1988_video_game... is worth a look if you are interested in the Cold War, but it is limited to the perspective of a (fictional) Central American country and has limited replayability.

bobthepanda 4y ago

Paradox already tried making one, but it was abandoned because it became a hot mess in development. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_vs._West_–_A_Hearts_of_Iron_Game https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_vs._West_–_A_Hearts_of_...

BlueTemplar 4y ago
Strictly speaking, not Paradox Interactive (which is a publisher, not a developer, releasing games pretty far out of the usual PDS fare, like the Magicka series), but fans of Paradox Development Studio games that started their own studio : BL-Logic.