5 ms·

Something I've learned from discussing computer hardware informally online over the years is that people have vastly different standards for what it means for f

Something I've learned from discussing computer hardware informally online over the years is that people have vastly different standards for what it means for fans to be "silent" in use. So much so that it's hardly worth discussing, because someone will insist that such and such fan or actively-cooled device is silent, and then you buy it and it sounds like crap. I suspect it's "Cloth Ears" in many cases.

formerly_proven 4y ago
I think it's not just different standards (quiet = "I can't hear it when blasting Call of Duty at an unhealthy volume") but likely the prevalence of hearing damage. A 30 dB noise is way less noticeable if your threshold of hearing is in the 10-30 dB range instead of the -10 to 10 dB range. Likewise the ability of people to perceive separate noises simultaneously differs. (Likewise many people say they can't hear the noise ANC headphones produce - it seems likely to me that they're either in a too loud environment so it's masked at all times, have hearing damage or both. It'd be interesting to see the Venn diagram with people who complain you can't turn up phone headphones to be loud enough any more - mumble mumble the EU took it from us! Meanwhile the volume step size of AirPods is too coarse for me because I'm only ever using the lowest four or so "clicks", rarely exceeding 50 dB per HealthKit).
- psychphysic 4y ago
  We definitely have different physiological sensitivity to stimuli, and sensitivity can be unintuitive (sounds we can be either made more or less noticeable depending on noise), we also differ in our processing ability and finally our conscious and unconscious ability to direct attention. This leads to interesting things like for many a white noise source (actually pink noise) nicely blots out most other auditory stimuli by helping direct attention away. Yet the noise source itself heightens sensitivity (why some people find ANC annoying). Finally some people simply can not direct their attention strongly and it's worsening. Hypersensitivity it's being swallowed up as an autism trait but many people simply aren't as trained at directing attention than we were in the past since we have such loud hobbies. Mindfulness does wonders here.
- AshamedCaptain 4y ago
  I have terrible hearing (plus age) and I still find most devices have uselessly coarse AND loud volume levels. I almost never exceed the first 2-3 'clicks' unless I want to wake my neighbors. Worst offenders are cheap monitor and/or laptop builtin speakers. I remember one where out of 15 avalable clicks, level 2 was already unbearably loud. When PulseAudio added "absolute volume control" support, I found out it would sometimes fake in extra clicks in which the actual volume would NOT change, but gave the impression of granularity. Wonders of HDA & usb audio...
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Half the time it’s because their AirPods are gummed up with earwax and it actually is too quiet.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  > Likewise many people say they can't hear the noise ANC headphones produce - it seems likely to me that they're either in a too loud environment so it's masked at all times, have hearing damage or both. On my old QC-35 I couldn't hear it, but it's pretty noticeable on the QC-45 I got after those broke.
flakeoil 4y ago
It's also dependent on the room/building you are in. If you would try the fan in an office type environment (even without any people there) you would probably think it is quiet. But then when you bring it home the fan suddenly sounds very loud. It's mostly due to the background noise such as active ventilation, air conditioning, other computers/servers/printers with fans etc in the office, which you might not have in your house. The empty office might seem very quiet, but in terms background fan like noise it's not. Traffic noise could also be a similar background noise factor.
BrotherBisquick 4y ago
This happens with eyeballs as well as ears. Witness people who don't notice screen tearing in X11, or people who don't mind (or even prefer!) Windows font rendering.
- Macha 4y ago
  The people who prefer Apple's or Window's font rendering are able to observe it so that's much more subjective preference compared to people who are literally unable to hear e.g. an x570 chipset fan and claim their system is silent
- jgillich 4y ago
  True, I have never in my life noticed screen tearing, X11 or otherwise.
- joshspankit 4y ago
  Or people who argued that “the eye can’t see more than 60fps”
  - favadi 4y ago
    Or people who argued that "4k is pointless, you can't see the different with 2k anw".
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      For gaming or videos I actually can’t tell the difference between 4K and 1440p. For text rendering I absolutely can.
      - glowingly 4y ago
        As an aside, many 4k/1440p videos are not really 4k or 1440p, vs how we would classify a 4k/1440p monitor. Video is mostly 4k/1440p light levels, but less than that w.r.t. color information. A common video subsampling setup is 4:2:0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling In addition, common video compression techniques (at least the simple ones that I could still understand) basically reconstruct blocks of pixels. Reconstruction is lossy, at best. If I had to guess, something similar could be done in games as part of their optimizations.
eMSF 4y ago
PCs usually aren't completely silent under load anyway (at least none that I've owned). No fan is silent at nominal voltage (and unmodulated) but when slowed down to a low enough RPM they can easily be less audible than GPU coils, many monitors, powered on speakers, room lighting, ... (and "more silent" than a powerful PC's static parts under load).
Melatonic 4y ago
Pretty hard for "fanless" to make fan noise though!

formerly_proven 4y ago

I think it's not just different standards (quiet = "I can't hear it when blasting Call of Duty at an unhealthy volume") but likely the prevalence of hearing damage. A 30 dB noise is way less noticeable if your threshold of hearing is in the 10-30 dB range instead of the -10 to 10 dB range. Likewise the ability of people to perceive separate noises simultaneously differs. (Likewise many people say they can't hear the noise ANC headphones produce - it seems likely to me that they're either in a too loud environment so it's masked at all times, have hearing damage or both. It'd be interesting to see the Venn diagram with people who complain you can't turn up phone headphones to be loud enough any more - mumble mumble the EU took it from us! Meanwhile the volume step size of AirPods is too coarse for me because I'm only ever using the lowest four or so "clicks", rarely exceeding 50 dB per HealthKit).

psychphysic 4y ago
We definitely have different physiological sensitivity to stimuli, and sensitivity can be unintuitive (sounds we can be either made more or less noticeable depending on noise), we also differ in our processing ability and finally our conscious and unconscious ability to direct attention. This leads to interesting things like for many a white noise source (actually pink noise) nicely blots out most other auditory stimuli by helping direct attention away. Yet the noise source itself heightens sensitivity (why some people find ANC annoying). Finally some people simply can not direct their attention strongly and it's worsening. Hypersensitivity it's being swallowed up as an autism trait but many people simply aren't as trained at directing attention than we were in the past since we have such loud hobbies. Mindfulness does wonders here.
AshamedCaptain 4y ago
I have terrible hearing (plus age) and I still find most devices have uselessly coarse AND loud volume levels. I almost never exceed the first 2-3 'clicks' unless I want to wake my neighbors. Worst offenders are cheap monitor and/or laptop builtin speakers. I remember one where out of 15 avalable clicks, level 2 was already unbearably loud. When PulseAudio added "absolute volume control" support, I found out it would sometimes fake in extra clicks in which the actual volume would NOT change, but gave the impression of granularity. Wonders of HDA & usb audio...
Gigachad 4y ago
Half the time it’s because their AirPods are gummed up with earwax and it actually is too quiet.
Beltalowda 4y ago
> Likewise many people say they can't hear the noise ANC headphones produce - it seems likely to me that they're either in a too loud environment so it's masked at all times, have hearing damage or both. On my old QC-35 I couldn't hear it, but it's pretty noticeable on the QC-45 I got after those broke.

flakeoil 4y ago

It's also dependent on the room/building you are in. If you would try the fan in an office type environment (even without any people there) you would probably think it is quiet. But then when you bring it home the fan suddenly sounds very loud. It's mostly due to the background noise such as active ventilation, air conditioning, other computers/servers/printers with fans etc in the office, which you might not have in your house. The empty office might seem very quiet, but in terms background fan like noise it's not. Traffic noise could also be a similar background noise factor.

BrotherBisquick 4y ago

This happens with eyeballs as well as ears. Witness people who don't notice screen tearing in X11, or people who don't mind (or even prefer!) Windows font rendering.

Macha 4y ago
The people who prefer Apple's or Window's font rendering are able to observe it so that's much more subjective preference compared to people who are literally unable to hear e.g. an x570 chipset fan and claim their system is silent
jgillich 4y ago
True, I have never in my life noticed screen tearing, X11 or otherwise.
joshspankit 4y ago
Or people who argued that “the eye can’t see more than 60fps”
- favadi 4y ago
  Or people who argued that "4k is pointless, you can't see the different with 2k anw".
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    For gaming or videos I actually can’t tell the difference between 4K and 1440p. For text rendering I absolutely can.
    - glowingly 4y ago
      As an aside, many 4k/1440p videos are not really 4k or 1440p, vs how we would classify a 4k/1440p monitor. Video is mostly 4k/1440p light levels, but less than that w.r.t. color information. A common video subsampling setup is 4:2:0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling In addition, common video compression techniques (at least the simple ones that I could still understand) basically reconstruct blocks of pixels. Reconstruction is lossy, at best. If I had to guess, something similar could be done in games as part of their optimizations.

eMSF 4y ago

PCs usually aren't completely silent under load anyway (at least none that I've owned). No fan is silent at nominal voltage (and unmodulated) but when slowed down to a low enough RPM they can easily be less audible than GPU coils, many monitors, powered on speakers, room lighting, ... (and "more silent" than a powerful PC's static parts under load).

Melatonic 4y ago

Pretty hard for "fanless" to make fan noise though!