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> Apple makes one of the best in class of these devices, and has successfully designed one such that it's hard to switch to a competitor (rather it's easier to

> Apple makes one of the best in class of these devices, and has successfully designed one such that it's hard to switch to a competitor (rather it's easier to stay in the ecosystem). I wonder how many years it will take before I can convince some people that I actually just prefer Apple's phones to competing phones and that I'm not actually brainwashed or forced by Apple to never leave. But that's exactly what a brainwashed person would say...

tcmart14 4y ago
I switched to my first iPhone last year and for me the determining factor was not feeling I had to constantly be on the upgrade path. I've has my iPhone SE (2020) and haven't been happier with a phone. A taken care of iPhone can theoretically last 7-8 years since that is how long an iPhone generally gets OS and security updates. Android is getting better on flagship phones, but still not as good. By some none flagship android and your lucky to get 1 year of OS and security updates. My last android was a pixel and so was the one before that and every time I felt like after year 1 with an android, there is a massive performance drop off. I feel like my iPhone SE (2020) runs just as well today as the day it came out of the box. Apple does do some things really well. Android could, and I really want to see them do it, but as of right now, there are some things Android does not do well. Addition: And I think one thing that really hurt the Android ecosystem is when Android phones went through that phase of every phone flagship phone had some sort of gimmick. Where as Apple really just buttoned down and developed a really solid phone. A lot of android phone makers were just focusing on gimmicks like styluses or niche features to set them apart from other Android instead of just really developing a good solid smart phone.
- tbrock 4y ago
  On android you’d be lucky to get more than a single OS update that added new features or functionality.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    Or just buy a Pixel if you care about that. Why people buy Samsung or other manufacturer phones, and then gripe that the company is as stingy with backwards support and updates as they've always been boggles my mind. Why would anyone ever think this time would be different?
    - scarface74 4y ago
      And then you will get at most three upgrades!
      - ethbr0 4y ago
        At the 6+, it looks like it's at 5 years (or more). https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en
        eldaisfish 4y ago
        provided your phone doesn't bootloop or otherwise have the hardware fail. Android phones - from google in particular - are notorious for this. Should things fail, you're screwed.
        tshaddox 4y ago
        What I’m seeing on that page seems to indicate that the Pixel 6 will receive Android version updates for 3 years after its release, and security updates for 5 years.
        scarface74 4y ago
        That’s security updates only not operating system updates, For reference, Apple just released a security update for the 5s from 2013 this past June. The 6S (2015) ran the latest OS until ios 16 this year.
        acer589 4y ago
        It looks like the oldest phone with current support is from 2019. The 2017 iPhone is still getting OS updates. And up until September this year, the iPhone from 2015 was still on the current OS. Does any Android phone even get half long of a software update cycle?
  - grogenaut 4y ago
    I've got a Moto 5G stylus, it was $280 on prime day, $450 normal. It'll get 3-5 more years of os updates. Battery lasts 2-3 days for me. It's so cheap I don't get insurance (would lose money in like 8 months) or care. I broke the screen 4 days in because I'm a dummy, but a replacement was on ebay for $40 shipped next day. I fixed it myself. No Multi-$K tool fixtures. I used an ios for other reasons. They're basically they same just slightly different. But I have an easily adequately powerful phone for 1/4 of an iphone and I don't even care if I break it or lose it, next day shipping replace or walk in purchase in a store. So basically there are GREAT midline phones. I'm not coding on my phone, I m reading slack and email and taking photos.
    - alanfranz 4y ago
      Are you sure you will get 3-5 years of os updates? Is there a “plea” somewhere? And how many majors? Are you sure it will keep working fine after two major updates or it will slow down terribly?
      - grogenaut 4y ago
        Frankly at $280, I don't care. But Moto has said they'll do android 13 at a minimum and they did well on my 2019 power so they've earned my trust I'll get 3-4 years of security updates. And compared to flagship prices I can take 4-5 updates even at every 2 years and still come out ahead. Even more if you include inflation.
    - skinnymuch 4y ago
      You got the phone on sale. Visit deal websites and iPhones will sometimes be on sale for similar prices and will have updates for the same time period. Phones sometimes on sale in that range would be 2020 SE or iPhone 11s
- bee_rider 4y ago
  > Addition: And I think one thing that really hurt the Android ecosystem is when Android phones went through that phase of every phone flagship phone had some sort of gimmick. Where as Apple really just buttoned down and developed a really solid phone. A lot of android phone makers were just focusing on gimmicks like styluses or niche features to set them apart from other Android instead of just really developing a good solid smart phone. This is how I look at it as well. Because anyone can make an Android phone, Android phone makers had to either race to the bottom or come up with their special gimmick. Those that came up with a gimmick became the phone for people who care about that gimmick. But this ceded the domain of "people who don't particularly care about which phones have which gimmicks," aka most people, to Apple. Pixel managed to break out of this by having their gimmick be "flagship by the people who wrote most of the OS, so, just generally well-implemented," but it took a while to get there.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    I don't know. Only a few premium models support stylus. Rather, I think most Android phones are too similar than ecosystem should. Most phones are just big heavy and camera-focused. There are some gimmicks like Galaxy's edge screen but not every phone. Speaking about gimmicks, Dynamic Island. You may just want to say Android phone is crappier than iPhone.
    - bee_rider 4y ago
      People seem to like their Pixels, so I wouldn't want to call them crappy. I dunno what a Dynamic Island is, sounds like a really unpleasant place to take a vacation.
      - aetherson 4y ago
        Dynamic island is Apple's branding of their feature of having a camera cutout and some animations and lights to try to turn it into a UI element. It might uncharitably be called a gimmick. It's on their latest top-end phones.
  - nine_k 4y ago
- kube-system 4y ago
  > when Android phones went through that phase of every phone flagship phone had some sort of gimmick I don’t think they ever grew out of it. https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/phones/galaxy-z/ https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/phones/galaxy-z/ https://www.motorola.com/us/smartphones-razr-family https://www.motorola.com/us/smartphones-razr-family
  - hoot 4y ago
    I bought a Galaxy fold last week and returned it yesterday. The form factor and larger screen was cool, but holy cow did Android feel like a huge downgrade from iOS. It was just all kinds of little quality of life things in iOS that I instantly missed. I think I needed something like one extra button press to get to the flashlight on Android and that did me in.
    - opan 4y ago
      I don't use vendor ROMs, but on my past several phones with LineageOS, I can hold the power button for a few seconds when the screen is off to enable the torch. I can also double tap power for the camera.
    - fomine3 4y ago
      I have both Galaxy Z Fold3 and iPhone 13 mini. Flashlight on Galaxy is really great. On settings, set double click power button to launch flashlight (perhaps most people use it to quick launch camera). It's really quick even compared to other Android phones I have ever. It's sad that it's not possible on iPhone, because mini is handy so suitable for flashlight.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    I argue Fold is a real significant improvement in this decade for who need. There's no other way to have tablet on my pocket. Flip seems to just a gimmick for me.
    - stormbrew 4y ago
      To me having a phone that actually fits in my pocket is a luxury and I have no interest in having "a tablet in my pocket" so I feel exactly the opposite.
- usefulcat 4y ago
  I switched to my first iphone nearly 3 years ago. I still have the same phone. At the time, I got it mainly because I wanted a waterproof phone. I've never had a phone get damaged by water, but I didn't want to worry about it either. Unlike any previous (Android) phone I've had, it still feels just as fast as it did when it was brand new. To date, the longest I've had any phone is around 3.5 years, and in 2 out of 3 cases it was due to hardware failure. Even if this one were to die tomorrow I'd definitely get another, although I think it's more likely that this one will last at least another couple of years, at which point it will be ~5 years.
- krzyk 4y ago
  The so called gimmicks is progress, how would you know what sticks if you don't try? And it was one of the best features of android. Apple makes boring product, that makes it easy for app developers to test (recently less so). AFAIR Android has still more de ices. Android is more of a power user device (you can do more, you can root it, think hack as in hacker news). From power user perspective iPhone is like Windows and Android like Linux.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    > Android is more of a power user device (you can do more, you can root it, think hack as in hacker news). For now. Remote attestation is becoming mainstream and every app will find a reason to require it. Computing freedom was the whole point of tolerating Android's imperfections. Without that, it's just a poorly kept Google walled garden. My next phone will be an iPhone.
  - tsujamin 4y ago
    > From power user perspective iPhone is like Windows and Android like Linux. A widely adopted platform/operating system with every improving security fundamentals versus a kernel with numerous spins each awaiting their day on the desktop: This is apt in a manner the author certainly did not intended..
  - magic_hamster 4y ago
    From my user perspective Android is Linux while iOS is more like Microsoft Bob
- mywacaday 4y ago
  I got the Galaxy Note 10+ over 3 years ago and I can't imagine a a phone without a stylus now. The ability to take a note in a second without opening the phone is worth its weight in gold to me. As soon as somebody makes a foldable with a stylus I'm all in, just wish there was more options than Samsung.
  - tcmart14 4y ago
    The Galaxy Note with the stylus is one of the few that have panned out and stood the test of time. When it first came out, it was a bit gimmicky, but now that it has stood the test of time and isn't going anywhere, today it definitely is not a gimmick.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- fbn79 4y ago
  I'm of the opinion that Apple iPhone will always be better of Android just because of a better GC process. Compile time ARC for Apple (https://microsoft.github.io/objc-guide/MethodsAndImplementations/AutomaticReferenceCounting.html https://microsoft.github.io/objc-guide/MethodsAndImplementat...) vs 100% runtime ART for Android (https://source.android.com/docs/core/runtime/gc-debug https://source.android.com/docs/core/runtime/gc-debug)
- hanche 4y ago
  > I switched to my first iPhone last year and for me the determining factor was not feeling I had to constantly be on the upgrade path. I've has my iPhone SE (2020) and haven't been happier with a phone. Indeed. I am on my fourth iPhone, an 11 pro now three years old that I expect to keep for at least another year. More would be nice, but that probably requires a battery change. I had my two previous phones for four years each, no problem. I really don’t understand people who just have to get a new phone ever year or two (or three)!
matwood 4y ago
Yeah. I went from iPhones to nexus phones for a couple gens. I went back to iPhones because I liked them better. At this point, it’s whatever someone prefers.
SxC97 4y ago
I've been trying to convince people that I just prefer Apple products and am not brainwashed since _at least_ the early 2000's... best of luck!
karlshea 4y ago
> I wonder how many years it will take before I can convince some people that I actually just prefer Apple's phones to competing phones and that I'm not actually brainwashed or forced by Apple to never leave. It will never happen. Those people are just not mentally able to understand that other people have different needs, wants, values, and opinions than them.
- dopidopHN 4y ago
  It’s because you are brainwashed. More seriously it’s actually a meme or a trope that I noticed.
  - georgebarnett 4y ago
    Right this very moment I have an iPhone 11 and a Pixel 5 in my pocket, both running fully up to date OS versions. I keep two phones because of personal reasons not relevant to this discussion. I prefer the iPhone.
    - dopidopHN 4y ago
      Now you do sound a bit défensive :) I write that on my trusted 2016 SE from Apple and that the finest piece of phone I own. And one of the only I personally owned. The durability alone is nice. My send me a succession of phone for various raison. It’s rare that any catch my fancy. First they are large and two :Android is subpar in my eyes. Saving grace : It is vastly more convenient to shove things in it.
gumby 4y ago
I don't think I'm brainwashed. The best I can say, when recommending a mac or iphone, is that it sucks less and will last a long time.
listless 4y ago
If you’re brainwashed, you don’t know it. You’re in unfalsifiable religious territory. So am I.
zwily 4y ago
I’d rather be brainwashed than constantly re-assuring myself that the users of a different brand phone must be brainwashed.
ww520 4y ago
Ha. I switched to Apple's phones because of the disappointment in the competing products and practices. It's angry-quit into Apple rather than brainwashing.
- jfghi 4y ago
  I used to like Motorola when the batteries were readily replaceable.
- manchmalscott 4y ago
  I switched from an OG Pixel XL to an iPhone when I found out about Google's Project Nightingale[1], though I was already looking for a new phone because I got a notification saying that November would be the last security update my phone would get, on a three year old phone. [1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-s-secret-project-nightingale-gathers-personal-health-data-on-millions-of-americans-11573496790 https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-s-secret-project-nightin...
dumpsterdiver 4y ago
I tried Android years ago when I bought an abominable B&N Nook Color, and it became clear very quickly that there was no plan to keep the device updated with security patches, etc. Not only that, but the OS had been grotesquely hobbled in an attempt to keep you within B&N's sad walled garden. I understand there are flagship devices that don't have this problem, and maybe this is unfair of me, but I came to expect that devices using Android would likely be riddled with garbage from whatever OEM was relying on the OS. While I do think it's cool that Google made Android so open, it also opened a bit of a Pandora's Box.
- _hypx 4y ago
  The Nook was a failure because B&N does not have the resources to maintain their own platform. Samsung is probably the only real competitor to Apple here. However, in the long run, it is likely that open platforms will win. Eventually, the Android ecosystem will get to a point where such software updates stop being a challenge. Then you can just buy a generic Android phone and nearly everything will work. Probably it becomes similar to buying a Windows PC.
  - krrrh 4y ago
    Next year will surely be the year of the Linux desktop.
  - nine_k 4y ago
    You already can buy a generic Android phone, and everything works in it, if the manufacturer is sane. But you can't get security updates for a long time, except for a few models into which manufacturers or enthusiasts put efforts. Linux kernel does not have a stable binary interface. Most phone devices (cameras, fingerprint sensors, even video controllers and radio modules have closed-source drivers. You can't expect manufacturers of these parts to update the drivers for their 3-year-old components for a newer kernel: they want to sell this year's parts instead. Reverse-engineering these drivers is tedious, and only buys you a few years on a handful of models. Long-term support works for Apple because they have essentially one line of phones, with a narrow set of components, and an enormous power over suppliers. So they can afford to buy serious users' loyalty.
Aloha 4y ago
Based on the stridency android users tell me how "they're sorry for me" I fear never. I didnt want a religious war, I just want to use my phone in peace without hearing how you feel about my vendor of telephone. I cant even mention it in passing.
- karlshea 4y ago
  I was around for the Mac/PC wars and the console wars. I just don't have the energy to give a shit about some "side" anymore, I'm gonna use what I want.
- Zircom 4y ago
  I have way more iphone users dump on me for using an Android than I see android users dump on iPhones. Just another anecdata. I don't really have many techy friends though so, that might weigh into it a little.
  - zo1 4y ago
    Let's also not mention the social stigma and peer pressure kids exert on each other because they don't have an iPhone and their name is apparently some different color one chat window.
    - kortilla 4y ago
      Yes, the green vs blue bubble. Blue bubbles indicate iMessage. Green bubble is for sms. It’s brutal in group chats because just one green bubble user forces everyone to downgrade and get shittier pictures, etc. So it’s not the color itself, it’s the worse experience that accompanies it.
  - Aloha 4y ago
    Maybe it's about equal!
NovaVeles 4y ago
I always found the Android vs Apple thing to be hilarious. You like Apple, cool - go for. I used to use them. Not any more. But that is my choice just as much as yours is. There are deeper questions of privacy and eco-system lock in on all sides. But to most people is just isn't that big of an issue. Honestly my big gripe still is - I miss Windows phone!
matheusmoreira 4y ago
Pretty soon actually. Android as a power user device is pretty much done. Hardware remote attestation will ensure that everyone is running unmodified Android. Without the freedom to sideload, root and hack the phone and its apps, there's no point. It's just a poorly kept Google walled garden and I have zero interest in that. My next phone will be an iPhone.
adrianN 4y ago
I use an iPhone instead of an Android because I still get software updates for the iPhone 7 (2016).
- checkyoursudo 4y ago
  I have an iPhone SE (1st gen) which I believe is also 2016, and I still get updates as well. In fact, this SE is still amazing. When I pull it out, nearly everybody says things like, "wow, I haven't seen a phone that small in a long time" and "I hate my gigantic phone". It still works fine. I have been thinking about getting an indestructible case for it. I haven't used a case yet, but I really don't want to have to buy a gigantic replacement phone, and I worry about dropping it and finally having it break. I wish they would make another small-form-factor phone again. I hear the 13 mini or something like that is reasonable, but it is still bigger. My very first iPhone (first gen) was the all-time best.
silisili 4y ago
Apple makes the best phone hardware, in best class of cameras, best battery life, best update policy. I can totally see why anyone would buy one. But I just can't stand using the thing. So, I'm an Android user. But you'd have to be really misinformed to not be able to admit on paper, they are superior devices.
- catach 4y ago
  I am curious, what are your biggest pain points?
  - silisili 4y ago
    Probably battery life and processor. Apple smokes everything Android, with a battery not nearly as big. Then there's cohesiveness - watching Android chat apps come and go is laughable. That aside, it feels certainly like Android leaves you with Goldilocks syndrome. You -can- buy phones with great battery life, great cameras, and great software/ui, but not all 3. Pixel has middling battery life. Samsung's UI/software is slow and bloated. Moto has terrible cameras.

tcmart14 4y ago

I switched to my first iPhone last year and for me the determining factor was not feeling I had to constantly be on the upgrade path. I've has my iPhone SE (2020) and haven't been happier with a phone. A taken care of iPhone can theoretically last 7-8 years since that is how long an iPhone generally gets OS and security updates. Android is getting better on flagship phones, but still not as good. By some none flagship android and your lucky to get 1 year of OS and security updates. My last android was a pixel and so was the one before that and every time I felt like after year 1 with an android, there is a massive performance drop off. I feel like my iPhone SE (2020) runs just as well today as the day it came out of the box. Apple does do some things really well. Android could, and I really want to see them do it, but as of right now, there are some things Android does not do well. Addition: And I think one thing that really hurt the Android ecosystem is when Android phones went through that phase of every phone flagship phone had some sort of gimmick. Where as Apple really just buttoned down and developed a really solid phone. A lot of android phone makers were just focusing on gimmicks like styluses or niche features to set them apart from other Android instead of just really developing a good solid smart phone.

tbrock 4y ago
On android you’d be lucky to get more than a single OS update that added new features or functionality.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  Or just buy a Pixel if you care about that. Why people buy Samsung or other manufacturer phones, and then gripe that the company is as stingy with backwards support and updates as they've always been boggles my mind. Why would anyone ever think this time would be different?
  - scarface74 4y ago
    And then you will get at most three upgrades!
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      At the 6+, it looks like it's at 5 years (or more). https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en
      - eldaisfish 4y ago
        provided your phone doesn't bootloop or otherwise have the hardware fail. Android phones - from google in particular - are notorious for this. Should things fail, you're screwed.
      - tshaddox 4y ago
        What I’m seeing on that page seems to indicate that the Pixel 6 will receive Android version updates for 3 years after its release, and security updates for 5 years.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        That’s security updates only not operating system updates, For reference, Apple just released a security update for the 5s from 2013 this past June. The 6S (2015) ran the latest OS until ios 16 this year.
      - acer589 4y ago
        It looks like the oldest phone with current support is from 2019. The 2017 iPhone is still getting OS updates. And up until September this year, the iPhone from 2015 was still on the current OS. Does any Android phone even get half long of a software update cycle?
- grogenaut 4y ago
  I've got a Moto 5G stylus, it was $280 on prime day, $450 normal. It'll get 3-5 more years of os updates. Battery lasts 2-3 days for me. It's so cheap I don't get insurance (would lose money in like 8 months) or care. I broke the screen 4 days in because I'm a dummy, but a replacement was on ebay for $40 shipped next day. I fixed it myself. No Multi-$K tool fixtures. I used an ios for other reasons. They're basically they same just slightly different. But I have an easily adequately powerful phone for 1/4 of an iphone and I don't even care if I break it or lose it, next day shipping replace or walk in purchase in a store. So basically there are GREAT midline phones. I'm not coding on my phone, I m reading slack and email and taking photos.
  - alanfranz 4y ago
    Are you sure you will get 3-5 years of os updates? Is there a “plea” somewhere? And how many majors? Are you sure it will keep working fine after two major updates or it will slow down terribly?
    - grogenaut 4y ago
      Frankly at $280, I don't care. But Moto has said they'll do android 13 at a minimum and they did well on my 2019 power so they've earned my trust I'll get 3-4 years of security updates. And compared to flagship prices I can take 4-5 updates even at every 2 years and still come out ahead. Even more if you include inflation.
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    You got the phone on sale. Visit deal websites and iPhones will sometimes be on sale for similar prices and will have updates for the same time period. Phones sometimes on sale in that range would be 2020 SE or iPhone 11s
bee_rider 4y ago
> Addition: And I think one thing that really hurt the Android ecosystem is when Android phones went through that phase of every phone flagship phone had some sort of gimmick. Where as Apple really just buttoned down and developed a really solid phone. A lot of android phone makers were just focusing on gimmicks like styluses or niche features to set them apart from other Android instead of just really developing a good solid smart phone. This is how I look at it as well. Because anyone can make an Android phone, Android phone makers had to either race to the bottom or come up with their special gimmick. Those that came up with a gimmick became the phone for people who care about that gimmick. But this ceded the domain of "people who don't particularly care about which phones have which gimmicks," aka most people, to Apple. Pixel managed to break out of this by having their gimmick be "flagship by the people who wrote most of the OS, so, just generally well-implemented," but it took a while to get there.
- fomine3 4y ago
  I don't know. Only a few premium models support stylus. Rather, I think most Android phones are too similar than ecosystem should. Most phones are just big heavy and camera-focused. There are some gimmicks like Galaxy's edge screen but not every phone. Speaking about gimmicks, Dynamic Island. You may just want to say Android phone is crappier than iPhone.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    People seem to like their Pixels, so I wouldn't want to call them crappy. I dunno what a Dynamic Island is, sounds like a really unpleasant place to take a vacation.
    - aetherson 4y ago
      Dynamic island is Apple's branding of their feature of having a camera cutout and some animations and lights to try to turn it into a UI element. It might uncharitably be called a gimmick. It's on their latest top-end phones.
- nine_k 4y ago
kube-system 4y ago
> when Android phones went through that phase of every phone flagship phone had some sort of gimmick I don’t think they ever grew out of it. https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/phones/galaxy-z/ https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/phones/galaxy-z/ https://www.motorola.com/us/smartphones-razr-family https://www.motorola.com/us/smartphones-razr-family
- hoot 4y ago
  I bought a Galaxy fold last week and returned it yesterday. The form factor and larger screen was cool, but holy cow did Android feel like a huge downgrade from iOS. It was just all kinds of little quality of life things in iOS that I instantly missed. I think I needed something like one extra button press to get to the flashlight on Android and that did me in.
  - opan 4y ago
    I don't use vendor ROMs, but on my past several phones with LineageOS, I can hold the power button for a few seconds when the screen is off to enable the torch. I can also double tap power for the camera.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    I have both Galaxy Z Fold3 and iPhone 13 mini. Flashlight on Galaxy is really great. On settings, set double click power button to launch flashlight (perhaps most people use it to quick launch camera). It's really quick even compared to other Android phones I have ever. It's sad that it's not possible on iPhone, because mini is handy so suitable for flashlight.
- fomine3 4y ago
  I argue Fold is a real significant improvement in this decade for who need. There's no other way to have tablet on my pocket. Flip seems to just a gimmick for me.
  - stormbrew 4y ago
    To me having a phone that actually fits in my pocket is a luxury and I have no interest in having "a tablet in my pocket" so I feel exactly the opposite.
usefulcat 4y ago
I switched to my first iphone nearly 3 years ago. I still have the same phone. At the time, I got it mainly because I wanted a waterproof phone. I've never had a phone get damaged by water, but I didn't want to worry about it either. Unlike any previous (Android) phone I've had, it still feels just as fast as it did when it was brand new. To date, the longest I've had any phone is around 3.5 years, and in 2 out of 3 cases it was due to hardware failure. Even if this one were to die tomorrow I'd definitely get another, although I think it's more likely that this one will last at least another couple of years, at which point it will be ~5 years.
krzyk 4y ago
The so called gimmicks is progress, how would you know what sticks if you don't try? And it was one of the best features of android. Apple makes boring product, that makes it easy for app developers to test (recently less so). AFAIR Android has still more de ices. Android is more of a power user device (you can do more, you can root it, think hack as in hacker news). From power user perspective iPhone is like Windows and Android like Linux.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  > Android is more of a power user device (you can do more, you can root it, think hack as in hacker news). For now. Remote attestation is becoming mainstream and every app will find a reason to require it. Computing freedom was the whole point of tolerating Android's imperfections. Without that, it's just a poorly kept Google walled garden. My next phone will be an iPhone.
- tsujamin 4y ago
  > From power user perspective iPhone is like Windows and Android like Linux. A widely adopted platform/operating system with every improving security fundamentals versus a kernel with numerous spins each awaiting their day on the desktop: This is apt in a manner the author certainly did not intended..
- magic_hamster 4y ago
  From my user perspective Android is Linux while iOS is more like Microsoft Bob
mywacaday 4y ago
I got the Galaxy Note 10+ over 3 years ago and I can't imagine a a phone without a stylus now. The ability to take a note in a second without opening the phone is worth its weight in gold to me. As soon as somebody makes a foldable with a stylus I'm all in, just wish there was more options than Samsung.
- tcmart14 4y ago
  The Galaxy Note with the stylus is one of the few that have panned out and stood the test of time. When it first came out, it was a bit gimmicky, but now that it has stood the test of time and isn't going anywhere, today it definitely is not a gimmick.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
fbn79 4y ago
I'm of the opinion that Apple iPhone will always be better of Android just because of a better GC process. Compile time ARC for Apple (https://microsoft.github.io/objc-guide/MethodsAndImplementations/AutomaticReferenceCounting.html https://microsoft.github.io/objc-guide/MethodsAndImplementat...) vs 100% runtime ART for Android (https://source.android.com/docs/core/runtime/gc-debug https://source.android.com/docs/core/runtime/gc-debug)
hanche 4y ago
> I switched to my first iPhone last year and for me the determining factor was not feeling I had to constantly be on the upgrade path. I've has my iPhone SE (2020) and haven't been happier with a phone. Indeed. I am on my fourth iPhone, an 11 pro now three years old that I expect to keep for at least another year. More would be nice, but that probably requires a battery change. I had my two previous phones for four years each, no problem. I really don’t understand people who just have to get a new phone ever year or two (or three)!

matwood 4y ago

Yeah. I went from iPhones to nexus phones for a couple gens. I went back to iPhones because I liked them better. At this point, it’s whatever someone prefers.

SxC97 4y ago

I've been trying to convince people that I just prefer Apple products and am not brainwashed since _at least_ the early 2000's... best of luck!

karlshea 4y ago

> I wonder how many years it will take before I can convince some people that I actually just prefer Apple's phones to competing phones and that I'm not actually brainwashed or forced by Apple to never leave. It will never happen. Those people are just not mentally able to understand that other people have different needs, wants, values, and opinions than them.

dopidopHN 4y ago
It’s because you are brainwashed. More seriously it’s actually a meme or a trope that I noticed.
- georgebarnett 4y ago
  Right this very moment I have an iPhone 11 and a Pixel 5 in my pocket, both running fully up to date OS versions. I keep two phones because of personal reasons not relevant to this discussion. I prefer the iPhone.
  - dopidopHN 4y ago
    Now you do sound a bit défensive :) I write that on my trusted 2016 SE from Apple and that the finest piece of phone I own. And one of the only I personally owned. The durability alone is nice. My send me a succession of phone for various raison. It’s rare that any catch my fancy. First they are large and two :Android is subpar in my eyes. Saving grace : It is vastly more convenient to shove things in it.

gumby 4y ago

I don't think I'm brainwashed. The best I can say, when recommending a mac or iphone, is that it sucks less and will last a long time.

listless 4y ago

If you’re brainwashed, you don’t know it. You’re in unfalsifiable religious territory. So am I.

zwily 4y ago

I’d rather be brainwashed than constantly re-assuring myself that the users of a different brand phone must be brainwashed.

ww520 4y ago

Ha. I switched to Apple's phones because of the disappointment in the competing products and practices. It's angry-quit into Apple rather than brainwashing.

jfghi 4y ago
I used to like Motorola when the batteries were readily replaceable.
manchmalscott 4y ago
I switched from an OG Pixel XL to an iPhone when I found out about Google's Project Nightingale[1], though I was already looking for a new phone because I got a notification saying that November would be the last security update my phone would get, on a three year old phone. [1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-s-secret-project-nightingale-gathers-personal-health-data-on-millions-of-americans-11573496790 https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-s-secret-project-nightin...

dumpsterdiver 4y ago

I tried Android years ago when I bought an abominable B&N Nook Color, and it became clear very quickly that there was no plan to keep the device updated with security patches, etc. Not only that, but the OS had been grotesquely hobbled in an attempt to keep you within B&N's sad walled garden. I understand there are flagship devices that don't have this problem, and maybe this is unfair of me, but I came to expect that devices using Android would likely be riddled with garbage from whatever OEM was relying on the OS. While I do think it's cool that Google made Android so open, it also opened a bit of a Pandora's Box.

_hypx 4y ago
The Nook was a failure because B&N does not have the resources to maintain their own platform. Samsung is probably the only real competitor to Apple here. However, in the long run, it is likely that open platforms will win. Eventually, the Android ecosystem will get to a point where such software updates stop being a challenge. Then you can just buy a generic Android phone and nearly everything will work. Probably it becomes similar to buying a Windows PC.
- krrrh 4y ago
  Next year will surely be the year of the Linux desktop.
- nine_k 4y ago
  You already can buy a generic Android phone, and everything works in it, if the manufacturer is sane. But you can't get security updates for a long time, except for a few models into which manufacturers or enthusiasts put efforts. Linux kernel does not have a stable binary interface. Most phone devices (cameras, fingerprint sensors, even video controllers and radio modules have closed-source drivers. You can't expect manufacturers of these parts to update the drivers for their 3-year-old components for a newer kernel: they want to sell this year's parts instead. Reverse-engineering these drivers is tedious, and only buys you a few years on a handful of models. Long-term support works for Apple because they have essentially one line of phones, with a narrow set of components, and an enormous power over suppliers. So they can afford to buy serious users' loyalty.

Aloha 4y ago

Based on the stridency android users tell me how "they're sorry for me" I fear never. I didnt want a religious war, I just want to use my phone in peace without hearing how you feel about my vendor of telephone. I cant even mention it in passing.

karlshea 4y ago
I was around for the Mac/PC wars and the console wars. I just don't have the energy to give a shit about some "side" anymore, I'm gonna use what I want.
Zircom 4y ago
I have way more iphone users dump on me for using an Android than I see android users dump on iPhones. Just another anecdata. I don't really have many techy friends though so, that might weigh into it a little.
- zo1 4y ago
  Let's also not mention the social stigma and peer pressure kids exert on each other because they don't have an iPhone and their name is apparently some different color one chat window.
  - kortilla 4y ago
    Yes, the green vs blue bubble. Blue bubbles indicate iMessage. Green bubble is for sms. It’s brutal in group chats because just one green bubble user forces everyone to downgrade and get shittier pictures, etc. So it’s not the color itself, it’s the worse experience that accompanies it.
- Aloha 4y ago
  Maybe it's about equal!

NovaVeles 4y ago

I always found the Android vs Apple thing to be hilarious. You like Apple, cool - go for. I used to use them. Not any more. But that is my choice just as much as yours is. There are deeper questions of privacy and eco-system lock in on all sides. But to most people is just isn't that big of an issue. Honestly my big gripe still is - I miss Windows phone!

matheusmoreira 4y ago

Pretty soon actually. Android as a power user device is pretty much done. Hardware remote attestation will ensure that everyone is running unmodified Android. Without the freedom to sideload, root and hack the phone and its apps, there's no point. It's just a poorly kept Google walled garden and I have zero interest in that. My next phone will be an iPhone.

adrianN 4y ago

I use an iPhone instead of an Android because I still get software updates for the iPhone 7 (2016).

checkyoursudo 4y ago
I have an iPhone SE (1st gen) which I believe is also 2016, and I still get updates as well. In fact, this SE is still amazing. When I pull it out, nearly everybody says things like, "wow, I haven't seen a phone that small in a long time" and "I hate my gigantic phone". It still works fine. I have been thinking about getting an indestructible case for it. I haven't used a case yet, but I really don't want to have to buy a gigantic replacement phone, and I worry about dropping it and finally having it break. I wish they would make another small-form-factor phone again. I hear the 13 mini or something like that is reasonable, but it is still bigger. My very first iPhone (first gen) was the all-time best.

silisili 4y ago

Apple makes the best phone hardware, in best class of cameras, best battery life, best update policy. I can totally see why anyone would buy one. But I just can't stand using the thing. So, I'm an Android user. But you'd have to be really misinformed to not be able to admit on paper, they are superior devices.

catach 4y ago
I am curious, what are your biggest pain points?
- silisili 4y ago
  Probably battery life and processor. Apple smokes everything Android, with a battery not nearly as big. Then there's cohesiveness - watching Android chat apps come and go is laughable. That aside, it feels certainly like Android leaves you with Goldilocks syndrome. You -can- buy phones with great battery life, great cameras, and great software/ui, but not all 3. Pixel has middling battery life. Samsung's UI/software is slow and bloated. Moto has terrible cameras.