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So how well are the USB C cables going to work that follow the minimum “mandate” that doesn’t require cables to support data at all? How well are they going to

So how well are the USB C cables going to work that follow the minimum “mandate” that doesn’t require cables to support data at all? How well are they going to work when people pick up a “USB C” cable and wonder why they aren’t seeing video when they connect their phone to their TV?

hot_gril 4y ago
Not very well, but you can buy decent cables from a variety of manufacturers for cheap, and there isn't this one license-holder (Apple) out there trying to take a big cut from that. If someone wants to make a good Lightning cable for cheap, first they have to break the law by skipping the licensing deal, then they have to get around Apple's own mechanisms.
- scarface74 4y ago
  It doesn’t prevent “ewaste” if phone makers (mostly low end Android phone makers) still bundle shoddy cables, stores are still allowed to sell shoddy cables, etc. And USB C is not free of licensing requirements https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/450494/are-usb-protocol-and-connector-free-or-are-they-patented https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/450494/are-u... A “good” USB C cable that supports all of the things I said - high speed data, video over USB, etc - costs around $15. The same price as an Anker Lightning cable. A random USB C cable doesn’t support video over USB - something I need for my portable secondary display. The iPads with USB C already support this. I have no reason to believe that the next iPhone won’t.
  - hot_gril 4y ago
    It's not free, but it's cheap. A good USB-C cable costs less than $5, not $15. You hardly ever need a good one either, just one for charging. Re ewaste, that's a different topic. I'm just talking about licensing fees.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Can that $5 USB C cable support data transfers at USB3 speeds and video over USB C? USB C also has licensing fees. The stated reason was to prevent “ewaste” and yes you can buy a $5 lightning cable. Here is a 3 pack for $10 https://a.co/d/8FB2naZ https://a.co/d/8FB2naZ
      - hot_gril 4y ago
        You're actually right about the video -C cables. That feature costs extra, and I didn't notice the first time. But it's rare to need one, and they'll get cheaper over time. That 3-pack MFi Lightning for $10 is a new phenomenon. It was never like that before. I can believe it's not fake, just cheap cause it's old tech and on its way out.
        scarface74 4y ago
        Looking through my order history, I bought an “Amazon Basics” lightning cable for $8 back in 2015.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    > A “good” USB C cable that supports all of the things I said - high speed data, video over USB, etc - costs around $15. The same price as an Anker Lightning cable. But the Lightning cable won't support high speed data. And if you want video over Lightning you can't just use a cable, you need an adapter with an embedded computer to decompress the output. A USB C cable that has the same capabilities as that Lightning cable is 2-3 dollars.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      The EU is suppose to be mandating a “standard”. What good is a “standard” that doesn’t support the “standard”? USB C cables that come with the iPad supports all of those standards. What are the chances that unsuspecting users in the EU dancing in the streets go in an buy a “standard USB C” and find out that it doesn’t work when they get ready to plug their phone to the TVs or when they find out the promise of “USB3 speeds” because it was the “standard” is a lie because the EU didn’t mandate that as part of the standard?
      - hot_gril 4y ago
        People just want to charge their phones. Maybe if someone actually cares about USB3 transfer speeds, they'll go buy the slightly more expensive cable for that. It's not like TVs even have USB-C. And I don't think this reduces ewaste. It's about the same.
        scarface74 4y ago
        Thought experiment: grab a random “standard USB C” cable. Now answer a few questions just by looking at it: - what wattage does is supper? - what data speed does it support? - will it support video over USB C? Why didn’t the EU in all of its technical brilliance at least attempt to come up with a minimum “standard”?
        hot_gril 4y ago
        What wattage, enough to charge my phone. What speed, don't really care but it's at least the same as Lightning. Video, never used it. EU wanted to break up Apple's proprietary control over the iPhone ports and create a charging standard, cause charging is the important part. Anyone can make a higher-spec USB-C cable without going to Apple, and chargers are uniform for all phones. Worth repeating that I don't agree with the EU's law, just saying why they did it. Nobody in this thread has brought up the real con, which is that tech regulation hinders innovation, and the minor frustration with chargers wasn't a big enough problem to warrant that.
Dylan16807 4y ago
> So how well are the USB C cables going to work that follow the minimum “mandate” that doesn’t require cables to support data at all? Citation needed? I think those are below the minimum. > How well are they going to work when people pick up a “USB C” cable and wonder why they aren’t seeing video when they connect their phone to their TV? They probably feel similar to people with lightning cables.
- scarface74 4y ago
  > Citation needed? I think those are below the minimum. The law states nothing about data transfers or anything else.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    Oh, I thought you meant spec minimum not legal minimum. Does the law not say the cables have to meet the USB C spec?
    - scarface74 4y ago
      There are plenty of “USB C specs” https://www.androidauthority.com/state-of-usb-c-870996/ https://www.androidauthority.com/state-of-usb-c-870996/
      - Dylan16807 4y ago
        And they all require data wires. The minimum speed is the same speed as Lightning. And the minimum wattage is higher than Lightning as far as I am aware.
        scarface74 4y ago
        They definitely don’t. The USB C cord that came with the previous MacBook Pros were power only as are a lot of other USB C cables especially ones that come with headphones. The maximum wattage of the little USB C cable that comes with headphones certainly don’t support a minimum wattage that will charge a large iPhone at any appreciable speed.

hot_gril 4y ago

Not very well, but you can buy decent cables from a variety of manufacturers for cheap, and there isn't this one license-holder (Apple) out there trying to take a big cut from that. If someone wants to make a good Lightning cable for cheap, first they have to break the law by skipping the licensing deal, then they have to get around Apple's own mechanisms.

scarface74 4y ago
It doesn’t prevent “ewaste” if phone makers (mostly low end Android phone makers) still bundle shoddy cables, stores are still allowed to sell shoddy cables, etc. And USB C is not free of licensing requirements https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/450494/are-usb-protocol-and-connector-free-or-are-they-patented https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/450494/are-u... A “good” USB C cable that supports all of the things I said - high speed data, video over USB, etc - costs around $15. The same price as an Anker Lightning cable. A random USB C cable doesn’t support video over USB - something I need for my portable secondary display. The iPads with USB C already support this. I have no reason to believe that the next iPhone won’t.
- hot_gril 4y ago
  It's not free, but it's cheap. A good USB-C cable costs less than $5, not $15. You hardly ever need a good one either, just one for charging. Re ewaste, that's a different topic. I'm just talking about licensing fees.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Can that $5 USB C cable support data transfers at USB3 speeds and video over USB C? USB C also has licensing fees. The stated reason was to prevent “ewaste” and yes you can buy a $5 lightning cable. Here is a 3 pack for $10 https://a.co/d/8FB2naZ https://a.co/d/8FB2naZ
    - hot_gril 4y ago
      You're actually right about the video -C cables. That feature costs extra, and I didn't notice the first time. But it's rare to need one, and they'll get cheaper over time. That 3-pack MFi Lightning for $10 is a new phenomenon. It was never like that before. I can believe it's not fake, just cheap cause it's old tech and on its way out.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Looking through my order history, I bought an “Amazon Basics” lightning cable for $8 back in 2015.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  > A “good” USB C cable that supports all of the things I said - high speed data, video over USB, etc - costs around $15. The same price as an Anker Lightning cable. But the Lightning cable won't support high speed data. And if you want video over Lightning you can't just use a cable, you need an adapter with an embedded computer to decompress the output. A USB C cable that has the same capabilities as that Lightning cable is 2-3 dollars.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    The EU is suppose to be mandating a “standard”. What good is a “standard” that doesn’t support the “standard”? USB C cables that come with the iPad supports all of those standards. What are the chances that unsuspecting users in the EU dancing in the streets go in an buy a “standard USB C” and find out that it doesn’t work when they get ready to plug their phone to the TVs or when they find out the promise of “USB3 speeds” because it was the “standard” is a lie because the EU didn’t mandate that as part of the standard?
    - hot_gril 4y ago
      People just want to charge their phones. Maybe if someone actually cares about USB3 transfer speeds, they'll go buy the slightly more expensive cable for that. It's not like TVs even have USB-C. And I don't think this reduces ewaste. It's about the same.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Thought experiment: grab a random “standard USB C” cable. Now answer a few questions just by looking at it: - what wattage does is supper? - what data speed does it support? - will it support video over USB C? Why didn’t the EU in all of its technical brilliance at least attempt to come up with a minimum “standard”?
        hot_gril 4y ago
        What wattage, enough to charge my phone. What speed, don't really care but it's at least the same as Lightning. Video, never used it. EU wanted to break up Apple's proprietary control over the iPhone ports and create a charging standard, cause charging is the important part. Anyone can make a higher-spec USB-C cable without going to Apple, and chargers are uniform for all phones. Worth repeating that I don't agree with the EU's law, just saying why they did it. Nobody in this thread has brought up the real con, which is that tech regulation hinders innovation, and the minor frustration with chargers wasn't a big enough problem to warrant that.

Dylan16807 4y ago

> So how well are the USB C cables going to work that follow the minimum “mandate” that doesn’t require cables to support data at all? Citation needed? I think those are below the minimum. > How well are they going to work when people pick up a “USB C” cable and wonder why they aren’t seeing video when they connect their phone to their TV? They probably feel similar to people with lightning cables.

scarface74 4y ago
> Citation needed? I think those are below the minimum. The law states nothing about data transfers or anything else.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  Oh, I thought you meant spec minimum not legal minimum. Does the law not say the cables have to meet the USB C spec?
  - scarface74 4y ago
    There are plenty of “USB C specs” https://www.androidauthority.com/state-of-usb-c-870996/ https://www.androidauthority.com/state-of-usb-c-870996/
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      And they all require data wires. The minimum speed is the same speed as Lightning. And the minimum wattage is higher than Lightning as far as I am aware.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        They definitely don’t. The USB C cord that came with the previous MacBook Pros were power only as are a lot of other USB C cables especially ones that come with headphones. The maximum wattage of the little USB C cable that comes with headphones certainly don’t support a minimum wattage that will charge a large iPhone at any appreciable speed.