11 ms·

God I hate to say it, but Bitcoin fixes this (with the Lightning Network). https://lightning.network/ https://lightning.network/ I am not a Maxi, but Jesus wh

God I hate to say it, but Bitcoin fixes this (with the Lightning Network). https://lightning.network/ https://lightning.network/ I am not a Maxi, but Jesus what other options are there?

throwaway12245 4y ago
Cash, checks, Visa, Mastercard, Amex, Discover, barter.
- rglover 4y ago
  > Cash Slowly being phased out. > checks Already spotty usage. > Visa, Mastercard, Amex, Discover Censorship possible. > barter Viable, but foolish considering it's cumbersome and we live in an age where perfectly viable technological solutions exist. It's like having an iron but pressing your shirts between books out in the sun.
  - delusional 4y ago
    > Crypto Viable, but foolish considering it's cumbersome.
    - rglover 4y ago
      My definition of "cumbersome" above is tradeability. Bitcoin can be transferred to anyone in the world in a few minutes (w/ on-chain confirms in ~10-60m or lightning confirms instantly). I've done business with people all of the world in places that have weak or non-existent banking thanks to Bitcoin. None of the above options made that possible.
  - Eumenes 4y ago
    Where can't you use cash?
    - anonym29 4y ago
      The internet, with extremely few exceptions.
      - Eumenes 4y ago
        you can load a prepaid card at cvs/walgreens with cash, which can be used for most things
        anonym29 4y ago
        That 100% falls into the aforementioned category of Mastercard/Visa, where censorship is possible.
        Eumenes 4y ago
        I see where you're coming from, but do these require you to register? Do they need a billing address? Whats stopping someone from just getting a new one?
        anonym29 4y ago
        Censorship need not be targeted at the consumer/buyer, it can be targeted at the merchant/seller too. Even though you can obtain such cards anonymously, the fact that they still utilize those corporate payment networks means those corporations can block all transactions being sent to targeted merchants without needing to know the identity of the customers.
unwoundmouse 4y ago
zelle v̶e̶n̶m̶o̶ cashapp revolut ach wire ... and if you're concerned about centralization ethereum solana cosmos avalanche fantom monero aptos polygon ...
- NDizzle 4y ago
  Paypal owns Venmo.
- rootsudo 4y ago
  Zelle is more restrictive then paypal, and heavy limits, $500 daily - and more of a black hole then paypal.
  - Cyberdog 4y ago
    I used to pay rent with Zelle. It maxed out at $500 per transaction, but I could just do a second transaction to make up the difference. Same recipient, same day.
rglover 4y ago
None. Bitcoin is the only way to solve this problem, 100% outright. As long as trusting other humans is a part of the equation, problems of corruption, censorship, etc. will always be a problem.
- qubex 4y ago
  You do realise that money was created to deal with a lack of trust, and that every time you ‘transact’ in money you’re actually expressing your lack of trust in your counterpart’s ability to “make good” on a barter?
  - judge2020 4y ago
    And yet when you send via Bitcoin, you're putting 100% trust in them following through on fulfilling their end of the deal. Only NFTs/smart contracts fix this, but for them to affect things in the real world you either need society or some oracle to use that smart contract as a source of truth.
    - qubex 4y ago
      Yeah precisely. I think you’ve made the mistake of thinking we’re on opposite sides of the argument.
    - rglover 4y ago
      Which means you have to actually have discernment and encourages the individual to build long-term relationships, not transactional ones. It's a bit abstract/esoteric, but using something like Bitcoin would re-humanize commerce vs the increasingly transactional nature of the world enabled by fiat/printing.
  - bpodgursky 4y ago
    That's not really accurate; favors aren't fungible. I can't give you potatoes, and then use that favor to take a cow from your neighbor. You have to keep track of the balance somehow.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ZetaZero 4y ago
How will Bitcoin fix it? If I buy a video card with bitcoin, but get sent a brick instead, how does "Blockchain as Arbiter" get my bitcoins back?
- unwoundmouse 4y ago
  lets you decide who to trust to have the power to approve chargebacks instead of defacto trusting the fed
  - delusional 4y ago
    "The fed" doesn't approve chargebacks.
    - unwoundmouse 4y ago
      at a deeper level it does
- rhino369 4y ago
  Paypal refused me a refund after someone didn't even send me a brick, but just sent me someone else's FedEx shipment confirmation. Didn't even say my address and was delivered before I ordered. I was instantly denied because their shitty AI dispute process just checks the FedEx zipcode. Paypal wouldn't even let me talk to a real person. Fuck that company. Use a credit card instead. Luckily, I payed paypal through a credit card. So I disputed it through the bank instead.
- LightHugger 4y ago
  Bitcoin fixes it by reducing the number of scammers in the chain. if you deal with a seller and paypal, either the paypal or the seller can scam you. paypal is immune to bad press because their reputation is already rock bottom, so they don't even lose any reputation anymore by rampantly thieving and scamming. At least if, with a cryptocurrency, the seller scams you, you can voice it somewhere their reputation will be at risk. It doesn't delete the risk but the fixes the problem of "middle man is a scammer and thief and nobody is willing to do anything at all about it" that exists with paypal.
coding123 4y ago
Maybe CoDs or escrow needs to help.
Dreako 4y ago
lightning network will never scale as big as paypal sadly, this isnt it

God I hate to say it, but Bitcoin fixes this (with the Lightning Network). https://lightning.network/ https://lightning.network/ I am not a Maxi, but Jesus what other options are there?

throwaway12245 4y ago

Cash, checks, Visa, Mastercard, Amex, Discover, barter.

rglover 4y ago
> Cash Slowly being phased out. > checks Already spotty usage. > Visa, Mastercard, Amex, Discover Censorship possible. > barter Viable, but foolish considering it's cumbersome and we live in an age where perfectly viable technological solutions exist. It's like having an iron but pressing your shirts between books out in the sun.
- delusional 4y ago
  > Crypto Viable, but foolish considering it's cumbersome.
  - rglover 4y ago
    My definition of "cumbersome" above is tradeability. Bitcoin can be transferred to anyone in the world in a few minutes (w/ on-chain confirms in ~10-60m or lightning confirms instantly). I've done business with people all of the world in places that have weak or non-existent banking thanks to Bitcoin. None of the above options made that possible.
- Eumenes 4y ago
  Where can't you use cash?
  - anonym29 4y ago
    The internet, with extremely few exceptions.
    - Eumenes 4y ago
      you can load a prepaid card at cvs/walgreens with cash, which can be used for most things
      - anonym29 4y ago
        That 100% falls into the aforementioned category of Mastercard/Visa, where censorship is possible.
        Eumenes 4y ago
        I see where you're coming from, but do these require you to register? Do they need a billing address? Whats stopping someone from just getting a new one?
        anonym29 4y ago
        Censorship need not be targeted at the consumer/buyer, it can be targeted at the merchant/seller too. Even though you can obtain such cards anonymously, the fact that they still utilize those corporate payment networks means those corporations can block all transactions being sent to targeted merchants without needing to know the identity of the customers.

unwoundmouse 4y ago

zelle v̶e̶n̶m̶o̶ cashapp revolut ach wire ... and if you're concerned about centralization ethereum solana cosmos avalanche fantom monero aptos polygon ...

NDizzle 4y ago
Paypal owns Venmo.
rootsudo 4y ago
Zelle is more restrictive then paypal, and heavy limits, $500 daily - and more of a black hole then paypal.
- Cyberdog 4y ago
  I used to pay rent with Zelle. It maxed out at $500 per transaction, but I could just do a second transaction to make up the difference. Same recipient, same day.

rglover 4y ago

None. Bitcoin is the only way to solve this problem, 100% outright. As long as trusting other humans is a part of the equation, problems of corruption, censorship, etc. will always be a problem.

qubex 4y ago
You do realise that money was created to deal with a lack of trust, and that every time you ‘transact’ in money you’re actually expressing your lack of trust in your counterpart’s ability to “make good” on a barter?
- judge2020 4y ago
  And yet when you send via Bitcoin, you're putting 100% trust in them following through on fulfilling their end of the deal. Only NFTs/smart contracts fix this, but for them to affect things in the real world you either need society or some oracle to use that smart contract as a source of truth.
  - qubex 4y ago
    Yeah precisely. I think you’ve made the mistake of thinking we’re on opposite sides of the argument.
  - rglover 4y ago
    Which means you have to actually have discernment and encourages the individual to build long-term relationships, not transactional ones. It's a bit abstract/esoteric, but using something like Bitcoin would re-humanize commerce vs the increasingly transactional nature of the world enabled by fiat/printing.
- bpodgursky 4y ago
  That's not really accurate; favors aren't fungible. I can't give you potatoes, and then use that favor to take a cow from your neighbor. You have to keep track of the balance somehow.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ZetaZero 4y ago

How will Bitcoin fix it? If I buy a video card with bitcoin, but get sent a brick instead, how does "Blockchain as Arbiter" get my bitcoins back?

unwoundmouse 4y ago
lets you decide who to trust to have the power to approve chargebacks instead of defacto trusting the fed
- delusional 4y ago
  "The fed" doesn't approve chargebacks.
  - unwoundmouse 4y ago
    at a deeper level it does
rhino369 4y ago
Paypal refused me a refund after someone didn't even send me a brick, but just sent me someone else's FedEx shipment confirmation. Didn't even say my address and was delivered before I ordered. I was instantly denied because their shitty AI dispute process just checks the FedEx zipcode. Paypal wouldn't even let me talk to a real person. Fuck that company. Use a credit card instead. Luckily, I payed paypal through a credit card. So I disputed it through the bank instead.
LightHugger 4y ago
Bitcoin fixes it by reducing the number of scammers in the chain. if you deal with a seller and paypal, either the paypal or the seller can scam you. paypal is immune to bad press because their reputation is already rock bottom, so they don't even lose any reputation anymore by rampantly thieving and scamming. At least if, with a cryptocurrency, the seller scams you, you can voice it somewhere their reputation will be at risk. It doesn't delete the risk but the fixes the problem of "middle man is a scammer and thief and nobody is willing to do anything at all about it" that exists with paypal.

coding123 4y ago

Maybe CoDs or escrow needs to help.

Dreako 4y ago

lightning network will never scale as big as paypal sadly, this isnt it