5 ms·

If you download a script then running "sh script.sh" is a lot quicker and easier than a chmod followed by ./script.sh. You can of course also type "bash script.

If you download a script then running "sh script.sh" is a lot quicker and easier than a chmod followed by ./script.sh. You can of course also type "bash script.sh", but I don't always have it installed on every system, and the .bash extension just clarifies it. For things in my PATH I drop any suffixes like that.

ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
I see your point, but you can just as easily run "sh script" although that does imply that you already know that it's a shell script (obviously you wouldn't just run something from the internet without checking it first).
- jraph 4y ago
  > obviously you wouldn't just run something from the internet without checking it first This died a long time ago with the pervasive use of NPM and PIP and the likes. Most developers probably run a lot of random unchecked shit all the time with local user privileges today without a blink. Somehow people are ready for all this, but are still afraid to run a random shell script from the internet. I guess this fear is one of our chances to explain how NPM and PIP can be dangerous.
  - ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
    It's also fairly common to use a docker container that someone else built without having a look at it
    - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
      I don't know. I do that a lot on test servers when tinkering with new stuff but at work I'm very careful what I insert into my employer's infrastructure. If someone breaks in using a hole I should have taken care of, that's already bad. But if invite bad guys by installing a C&C for them, that's superbad.
  - krageon 4y ago
    If you're committed to being an idiot no amount of rules of thumb will save you. Not understanding what you use is one facet of being committed to that.
    - jraph 4y ago
      But people don't live in a vacuum. They live in an ecosystem, are subjected to it and contribute to it. If I contribute to Nextcloud or write an app for it, I need to run npm. If I want to run PeerTube, I need to run npm. They both pull a shitload of dependencies I can't possibly review. I personally avoid building anything using NPM and advocate for fewer / no dependencies, or for using dependencies packaged by reputable entities like Debian, but what can I do? I can't build everything myself. Am I committed to being an idiot?
  - kwertzzz 4y ago
    > This died a long time ago with the pervasive use of NPM and PIP and the likes. When a malicious package is found on NPM or PIP, it will get removed. However, it is quite unlikely that a website will be taken town for a malicious script (or only after a long time). I really doubt that most readers of HN would run a random script unless it comes from a source they trust (trusted enough to least to remove a malicious script in a timely fashion).
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  The .sh extension told me it's a shell script of some kind. I don't check everything I download from the internet; I don't think anyone does. It depends on what it is, where I'm getting it from, where I'm running it, etc. There are certainly some things I will review carefully, but other things I give just a quick check to see it's not in complete shambles, and others I barely check at all. I typically run the latest Vim from master, do I check every patch to see if after 30 years Bram finally sneaked in a crypto miner or password stealer? Do the people who package Vim for the Linux distros?
  - ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
    There's a difference between trusting well known software such as vim (especially when packaged by a distro) and trusting shell scripts from essentially anyone. If it's a well known resource, then I'd likely trust the script without checking (e.g. adding a docker repo to Ubuntu), but otherwise I'm going to give it a quick eyeball. I would tend to agree that scripts for downloading from the internet should have a '.sh' extension to make it clear that it's a script as opposed to a binary.
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      Indeed; that was my point exactly. People complain about things like "curl https://sh.rustup.rs https://sh.rustup.rs | sh" from the Rust homepage, but it's essentially the same as trusting "cd vim && ./configure && make && make install" (plus, if I would hide anything I'd do it in the probably quite large binary that script downloads, which is much harder to audit).

ndsipa_pomu 4y ago

I see your point, but you can just as easily run "sh script" although that does imply that you already know that it's a shell script (obviously you wouldn't just run something from the internet without checking it first).

jraph 4y ago
> obviously you wouldn't just run something from the internet without checking it first This died a long time ago with the pervasive use of NPM and PIP and the likes. Most developers probably run a lot of random unchecked shit all the time with local user privileges today without a blink. Somehow people are ready for all this, but are still afraid to run a random shell script from the internet. I guess this fear is one of our chances to explain how NPM and PIP can be dangerous.
- ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
  It's also fairly common to use a docker container that someone else built without having a look at it
  - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
    I don't know. I do that a lot on test servers when tinkering with new stuff but at work I'm very careful what I insert into my employer's infrastructure. If someone breaks in using a hole I should have taken care of, that's already bad. But if invite bad guys by installing a C&C for them, that's superbad.
- krageon 4y ago
  If you're committed to being an idiot no amount of rules of thumb will save you. Not understanding what you use is one facet of being committed to that.
  - jraph 4y ago
    But people don't live in a vacuum. They live in an ecosystem, are subjected to it and contribute to it. If I contribute to Nextcloud or write an app for it, I need to run npm. If I want to run PeerTube, I need to run npm. They both pull a shitload of dependencies I can't possibly review. I personally avoid building anything using NPM and advocate for fewer / no dependencies, or for using dependencies packaged by reputable entities like Debian, but what can I do? I can't build everything myself. Am I committed to being an idiot?
- kwertzzz 4y ago
  > This died a long time ago with the pervasive use of NPM and PIP and the likes. When a malicious package is found on NPM or PIP, it will get removed. However, it is quite unlikely that a website will be taken town for a malicious script (or only after a long time). I really doubt that most readers of HN would run a random script unless it comes from a source they trust (trusted enough to least to remove a malicious script in a timely fashion).
Beltalowda 4y ago
The .sh extension told me it's a shell script of some kind. I don't check everything I download from the internet; I don't think anyone does. It depends on what it is, where I'm getting it from, where I'm running it, etc. There are certainly some things I will review carefully, but other things I give just a quick check to see it's not in complete shambles, and others I barely check at all. I typically run the latest Vim from master, do I check every patch to see if after 30 years Bram finally sneaked in a crypto miner or password stealer? Do the people who package Vim for the Linux distros?
- ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
  There's a difference between trusting well known software such as vim (especially when packaged by a distro) and trusting shell scripts from essentially anyone. If it's a well known resource, then I'd likely trust the script without checking (e.g. adding a docker repo to Ubuntu), but otherwise I'm going to give it a quick eyeball. I would tend to agree that scripts for downloading from the internet should have a '.sh' extension to make it clear that it's a script as opposed to a binary.
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    Indeed; that was my point exactly. People complain about things like "curl https://sh.rustup.rs https://sh.rustup.rs | sh" from the Rust homepage, but it's essentially the same as trusting "cd vim && ./configure && make && make install" (plus, if I would hide anything I'd do it in the probably quite large binary that script downloads, which is much harder to audit).