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In my opinion the unacceptable, repetitive, fundamentalist-led attacks on the very institution of voting itself would take far more precedence than the social i

In my opinion the unacceptable, repetitive, fundamentalist-led attacks on the very institution of voting itself would take far more precedence than the social issues you listed, although I know social media leans hard on them. If you truly feel those are the most pressing issues in your mind/spheres, I would urge you to remember that social media is largely an echo chamber designed to distract from the actual issues, like the aforementioned sustained assault on the very basis of American society.

kepler1 4y ago
Please say what about voting has been fundamentally attacked at its core that rises to the level of amending the Constitution? That voters are required to (gasp) verify their identification, once every 4 years, if certain conditions aren't met? That drop boxes for ballots were reduced in number? Gerrymandering? Just look at some of the district designs in New York. I might remind you that all the things that are criticized in Republican states for suppressing the vote, exist as rules in certain Democratic states as well. It's easy, I might point out to you as well, to live in an echo chamber where issues get inflated in perceived importance, only because they hurt your side. Yet those same issues happening where it doesn't hurt the side, somehow fall from being a problem. That's no way to come to what should be an amendment to our basic document.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  > Gerrymandering? Just look at some of the district designs in New York. Nobody said that this was a republican-led-state problem only. That doesn't stop it from being a major threat to democracy, nor does it a priori mean that the Democrats do it as much or to the extent that Republicans do. > I might remind you that all the things that are criticized in Republican states for suppressing the vote, exist as rules in certain Democratic states as well. Do tell. No food or drink supplies allowed while standing outside in line for hours? Where's that in the Democratic states?
- voltaireodactyl 4y ago
  When one side repeatedly accuses the process of being rigged, that has the effect of lowering overall belief in the system. And when every objectively proven, convicted case is perpetrated by that SAME side, yet never condemned by said side, the only possible conclusion is that said side is operating in bad faith. When one entire half of the political equation is no longer operating in good faith, it has a cascading effect throughout society. Civilization exists because the majority believe in it, no more, no less. All of recorded history would seem to support this theory. And to put your mind at ease, I assure you I speak from my life experience rather than any internet talking points. For a simple example, take gerrymandering in my home state of NC. A complex issue, but if one does the work to understand what’s going on, everything I’m saying is clear. Research is required because the party in power would prefer it NOT be easy to comprehend the big picture — thus my patience with your high-handed-while-largely-misinformed statement of your understanding. I am curious: how do you explain away the most recent former president demanding votes from Georgia? To continue to treat/request support from such an individual is, to me, an absolute signifier that one does not consider the right to vote to be a fundamental issue, in my opinion. Not to mention the tomfoolery with ballots going missing, again in NC, due to the actions of an entrenched conservative “deep state” (for lack of a better term). Nevertheless, I support your right to your opinion! I do wish conservative leadership felt the same way. I hope this comment leaves you feeling more fully informed of the issues, so you don’t feel the need to bring up bathrooms in the context of rebellion again :).
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  > That voters are required to (gasp) verify their identification, once every 4 years, if certain conditions aren't met? Until we give everyone an ID card, yes that is voter suppression because it prevents many citizens from voting. > That drop boxes for ballots were reduced in number? Drop boxes and polling locations. It's hard enough that voting day isn't a paid holiday. If it takes hours and hours or goes outside of the range someone can easily travel, that's a big problem.
TeeMassive 4y ago
> In my opinion the unacceptable, repetitive, fundamentalist-led attacks on the very institution of voting itself would take far more precedence than the social issues you listed How are they attacked? From what I've seen, all the "voter suppression" stories coming from the US are all things we have in place in other modern democracies like in Canada. We have voter ID, we have to make sure we are registered, we can only ask for mail ballots for certain circumstances, voting machines are banned and we have move of the results before midnight.
- Nursie 4y ago
  Voter suppression in the US appears to take on other forms, reducing the number of polling places in urban centres such that it can take several hours to cast a vote, restricting their hours, making it illegal to provide water for those in the queue, that sort of thing. Multi-pronged attacks which try to ensure only 'your' people get to participate. As an Australian resident and a British citizen, it seems outrageous to me - I've never had to take more than about fifteen minutes out of my day to vote in the UK, and in Australia voting is fast, mandatory and always run on a weekend so that most people can get to it. They even usually have a charity barbecue outside the polling place! Other, indirect attacks on the system include Trump's big lie, the stated intention of the republican candidate for the secretary of state of Arizona to return the state to republican control because he thinks it's what the people really want regardless of the outcome of the actual vote (because clearly the vote is rigged!), the various "alternative electors" that republicans attempted to send to congress during the aftermath of the last presidential election etc etc. The US right is currently mounting an attack on US democracy itself in various ways, to try and work around the system and usurp democratic mandate.
  - jliptzin 4y ago
    Upvoted and also amazed that you know so much about what’s going on in US politics!
    - Nursie 4y ago
      Thanks, it's fascinating and a little scary to watch! The US has a huge influence on the world, particularly on the other western, anglophone democracies, so it feels important. I also have family and friends in various states. My generation in the UK grew up with America being this shiny, free, wonderful, aspirational land over the sea, the land of Baywatch and Miami Vice and Disneyland and CocaCola all the other things. It really did appear to be the mythical shining light on the hill. I love visiting the US and have spent over a year there now, on and off. It is a varied land of contradictions and of very different values and lifestyles, a land of opulence, but also of left behind little places. But the politics ... it seems to have become pathological, and the population increasingly cynical about politicians, about the media and sources of information, to the extent that most trust seems gone and consensus reality seems to be frequently called into question (I'm not claiming this is unreasonable! Just observing). These tropes are definitely present in the two countries I've called home, but to a much lesser extent, the poison doesn't seem to have permeated quite so far. You do see stuff get thrown around on social media like "Make sure to take a pen to the voting booth so that they can't change your vote!" but it's fringe whackos. Even if the politicians themselves are disliked, the mechanics of democracy are usually pretty well trusted. IIRC in the last general election here one of the tiny right-wing parties tried some voter-fraud type rabble-rousing ahead of the poll, but they were largely ignored and pretty quickly contradicted by the Australian Election Commission.

kepler1 4y ago

Please say what about voting has been fundamentally attacked at its core that rises to the level of amending the Constitution? That voters are required to (gasp) verify their identification, once every 4 years, if certain conditions aren't met? That drop boxes for ballots were reduced in number? Gerrymandering? Just look at some of the district designs in New York. I might remind you that all the things that are criticized in Republican states for suppressing the vote, exist as rules in certain Democratic states as well. It's easy, I might point out to you as well, to live in an echo chamber where issues get inflated in perceived importance, only because they hurt your side. Yet those same issues happening where it doesn't hurt the side, somehow fall from being a problem. That's no way to come to what should be an amendment to our basic document.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
> Gerrymandering? Just look at some of the district designs in New York. Nobody said that this was a republican-led-state problem only. That doesn't stop it from being a major threat to democracy, nor does it a priori mean that the Democrats do it as much or to the extent that Republicans do. > I might remind you that all the things that are criticized in Republican states for suppressing the vote, exist as rules in certain Democratic states as well. Do tell. No food or drink supplies allowed while standing outside in line for hours? Where's that in the Democratic states?
voltaireodactyl 4y ago
When one side repeatedly accuses the process of being rigged, that has the effect of lowering overall belief in the system. And when every objectively proven, convicted case is perpetrated by that SAME side, yet never condemned by said side, the only possible conclusion is that said side is operating in bad faith. When one entire half of the political equation is no longer operating in good faith, it has a cascading effect throughout society. Civilization exists because the majority believe in it, no more, no less. All of recorded history would seem to support this theory. And to put your mind at ease, I assure you I speak from my life experience rather than any internet talking points. For a simple example, take gerrymandering in my home state of NC. A complex issue, but if one does the work to understand what’s going on, everything I’m saying is clear. Research is required because the party in power would prefer it NOT be easy to comprehend the big picture — thus my patience with your high-handed-while-largely-misinformed statement of your understanding. I am curious: how do you explain away the most recent former president demanding votes from Georgia? To continue to treat/request support from such an individual is, to me, an absolute signifier that one does not consider the right to vote to be a fundamental issue, in my opinion. Not to mention the tomfoolery with ballots going missing, again in NC, due to the actions of an entrenched conservative “deep state” (for lack of a better term). Nevertheless, I support your right to your opinion! I do wish conservative leadership felt the same way. I hope this comment leaves you feeling more fully informed of the issues, so you don’t feel the need to bring up bathrooms in the context of rebellion again :).
Dylan16807 4y ago
> That voters are required to (gasp) verify their identification, once every 4 years, if certain conditions aren't met? Until we give everyone an ID card, yes that is voter suppression because it prevents many citizens from voting. > That drop boxes for ballots were reduced in number? Drop boxes and polling locations. It's hard enough that voting day isn't a paid holiday. If it takes hours and hours or goes outside of the range someone can easily travel, that's a big problem.

TeeMassive 4y ago

> In my opinion the unacceptable, repetitive, fundamentalist-led attacks on the very institution of voting itself would take far more precedence than the social issues you listed How are they attacked? From what I've seen, all the "voter suppression" stories coming from the US are all things we have in place in other modern democracies like in Canada. We have voter ID, we have to make sure we are registered, we can only ask for mail ballots for certain circumstances, voting machines are banned and we have move of the results before midnight.

Nursie 4y ago
Voter suppression in the US appears to take on other forms, reducing the number of polling places in urban centres such that it can take several hours to cast a vote, restricting their hours, making it illegal to provide water for those in the queue, that sort of thing. Multi-pronged attacks which try to ensure only 'your' people get to participate. As an Australian resident and a British citizen, it seems outrageous to me - I've never had to take more than about fifteen minutes out of my day to vote in the UK, and in Australia voting is fast, mandatory and always run on a weekend so that most people can get to it. They even usually have a charity barbecue outside the polling place! Other, indirect attacks on the system include Trump's big lie, the stated intention of the republican candidate for the secretary of state of Arizona to return the state to republican control because he thinks it's what the people really want regardless of the outcome of the actual vote (because clearly the vote is rigged!), the various "alternative electors" that republicans attempted to send to congress during the aftermath of the last presidential election etc etc. The US right is currently mounting an attack on US democracy itself in various ways, to try and work around the system and usurp democratic mandate.
- jliptzin 4y ago
  Upvoted and also amazed that you know so much about what’s going on in US politics!
  - Nursie 4y ago
    Thanks, it's fascinating and a little scary to watch! The US has a huge influence on the world, particularly on the other western, anglophone democracies, so it feels important. I also have family and friends in various states. My generation in the UK grew up with America being this shiny, free, wonderful, aspirational land over the sea, the land of Baywatch and Miami Vice and Disneyland and CocaCola all the other things. It really did appear to be the mythical shining light on the hill. I love visiting the US and have spent over a year there now, on and off. It is a varied land of contradictions and of very different values and lifestyles, a land of opulence, but also of left behind little places. But the politics ... it seems to have become pathological, and the population increasingly cynical about politicians, about the media and sources of information, to the extent that most trust seems gone and consensus reality seems to be frequently called into question (I'm not claiming this is unreasonable! Just observing). These tropes are definitely present in the two countries I've called home, but to a much lesser extent, the poison doesn't seem to have permeated quite so far. You do see stuff get thrown around on social media like "Make sure to take a pen to the voting booth so that they can't change your vote!" but it's fringe whackos. Even if the politicians themselves are disliked, the mechanics of democracy are usually pretty well trusted. IIRC in the last general election here one of the tiny right-wing parties tried some voter-fraud type rabble-rousing ahead of the poll, but they were largely ignored and pretty quickly contradicted by the Australian Election Commission.