5 ms·

You can be both right and an asshole. These things are not exclusive. There is a way to say what he is saying without calling all of today's programmers "farmer

by 323 4y ago

You can be both right and an asshole. These things are not exclusive. There is a way to say what he is saying without calling all of today's programmers "farmers", which also has some undertones that being a farmer is somehow shameful. > under-skilled individuals who spend more time sorting out their CV and online presence than their work That sounds more like a organizational/hiring problem.

zmxz 4y ago
In gaming culture, a farmer is someone who repeats the same actions for extended periods of time. It's not an insult in gaming context, and "farming" in the context of our craft does not relate to actual farmers. It sounds like taking things out of context to gain moral upper hand which allows for insulting the author. I have to be devil's advocate, this whole shaming because someone else might have gotten offended is seriously tiresome. Library is crafted well, guy's annoyed with self-proclaimed crappy devs, yet the freedom to say so is revoked by the very community he helps.
- 323 4y ago
  Calling someone a "farmer" or a "peasant" is a well known insult. The gaming use of the word is much less known. > 1. a person who farms; person who operates a farm or cultivates land. > 2. Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. an unsophisticated or ignorant person, especially one from a rural area. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/farmer https://www.dictionary.com/browse/farmer
  - naasking 4y ago
    Sure, it's well known to English-speaking natives. This library was written by a Swedish consulting firm.
    - Kiro 4y ago
      "Farmer" is even more degrading in Swedish ("bonde"), to the point where you avoid using it even for actual farmers and say "agriculturalist" ("jordbrukare") instead.
  - zmxz 4y ago
    But it's not an insult towards actual farmers, it's an insult towards an impostor that pretends they're doing valuable work while all they do is the opposite and they merely throw time at a problem, creating illusion of value. I'm saying this because I'm raised on a farm, I was always proud of it, I still do it as a hobby (and I love my crops) and I never, ever considered it an insult when I heard a term "farmer" or "peasant". Nowadays, I read about people being offended in my stead, giving themselves the right to insult other people, like author of microwebsockets. Is there a world in which haters could hate without using excuses such as "it insults farmers"? I'm one of the farmers, I am not insulted, I do have the right to say this and point the attention at the *real* problem - and it's fake developers.
    - iam-TJ 4y ago
      I join you in these sentiments - born-n-bred on the farm, still there, and hacking software since 1981! My most regular outburst of swearing is about 'dev-ops' and lack of engineering discipline and occurs almost daily :)
  - alexhultman 4y ago
    Yeah a "farmer" is not a literal farmer. It's slang for uneducated people aka peasants.
    - throwaway9870 4y ago
      You are just digging yourself in a bigger hole :) Modern farmers are not anywhere close to uneducated peasants.
      - alexhultman 4y ago
        It's a poorly translated word written in a haste. A better translation would be "red neck" (I think?). This is translated from my inner Swedish thoughts and we don't have Californian wokeness here (especially not down here in Skåne). But instead of finding a new word I reformulated that section everyone is so upset about. It's fascinating how easy it is for internet people to assume worst intent in everything, and look for things to be offended by, rather than to read between the lines and adjust ones interpretation based on context. If you read the section, applying context from what the project is about and where it is used, you should pretty easily grasp the overall idea that is: "compression sucks and is incredibly inefficient". It would be a much more interesting thread if people took that message and argued against/for it, technically. But now we are here arguing about some word usage that might be offensive if interpreted in a very literal way. Congratulations; we have reached peak cancel culture. I hope you enjoy it while it lasts.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jasonlotito 4y ago
  > In gaming culture, a farmer is someone who repeats the same actions for extended periods of time. This isn't gaming. This is a programming library. > It's not an insult in gaming context This is not a "gaming context." > and "farming" in the context of our craft does not relate to actual farmers I've never heard anyone refer to "farming" in the context of programming. Please share with me more of the use of farming in the context of programming (not gaming). > I have to be devil's advocate This is a lie. You do not "have" to be devil's advocate. This was a choice you made. > yet the freedom to say so is revoked by the very community he helps. This is a lie. Stop being a liar. Finally, do not "revoke" my "freedom" to say this to you by disagreeing or arguing against me.
  - nske 4y ago
    Speaking for myself, how I interpreted it is that there is some relationship between how unskilled developers do their job and what takes place during actual farming. When I first heard of the term farmer/farming in-game, I didn't think anyone meant to point to any stereotypes either, just that the actual act had similarities with farming. Granted, in this sentence it's easier to interpret it the other way, but isn't it always better to give someone the benefit of the doubt? I can see how the process of programming lazily without understanding can resemble farming -and there might be a more intuitive metaphor if the author is not a native english speaker. peace
  - zmxz 4y ago
    > This isn't gaming. This is a programming library. And humans can be gamers and programmers. Welcome to real life, tutorial is now over. > This is not a "gaming context." When a word is placed in quotes, convention is that it has alternate meaning. I gave perspective, gaming is something that's socially well-known, along with its terms. Don't pretend you're unaware. Don't be a liar. > I've never heard anyone refer to "farming" in the context of programming. Please share with me more of the use of farming in the context of programming (not gaming). I won't. > This is a lie. You do not "have" to be devil's advocate. This was a choice you made. And these are mental gymnastics that you allow yourself so you can justify being rude. Don't be a liar. > This is a lie. > Stop being a liar. Feel free to stop being a liar. > Finally, do not "revoke" my "freedom" to say this to you by disagreeing or arguing against me. I can assume you're accustomed to being invasive, rude and impolite but please, keep it for your inner circle of people. Or keep giving out orders to strangers from internet who will never interact with you after exchanging these words.

by 323 4y ago

zmxz 4y ago

In gaming culture, a farmer is someone who repeats the same actions for extended periods of time. It's not an insult in gaming context, and "farming" in the context of our craft does not relate to actual farmers. It sounds like taking things out of context to gain moral upper hand which allows for insulting the author. I have to be devil's advocate, this whole shaming because someone else might have gotten offended is seriously tiresome. Library is crafted well, guy's annoyed with self-proclaimed crappy devs, yet the freedom to say so is revoked by the very community he helps.

323 4y ago
Calling someone a "farmer" or a "peasant" is a well known insult. The gaming use of the word is much less known. > 1. a person who farms; person who operates a farm or cultivates land. > 2. Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. an unsophisticated or ignorant person, especially one from a rural area. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/farmer https://www.dictionary.com/browse/farmer
- naasking 4y ago
  Sure, it's well known to English-speaking natives. This library was written by a Swedish consulting firm.
  - Kiro 4y ago
    "Farmer" is even more degrading in Swedish ("bonde"), to the point where you avoid using it even for actual farmers and say "agriculturalist" ("jordbrukare") instead.
- zmxz 4y ago
  But it's not an insult towards actual farmers, it's an insult towards an impostor that pretends they're doing valuable work while all they do is the opposite and they merely throw time at a problem, creating illusion of value. I'm saying this because I'm raised on a farm, I was always proud of it, I still do it as a hobby (and I love my crops) and I never, ever considered it an insult when I heard a term "farmer" or "peasant". Nowadays, I read about people being offended in my stead, giving themselves the right to insult other people, like author of microwebsockets. Is there a world in which haters could hate without using excuses such as "it insults farmers"? I'm one of the farmers, I am not insulted, I do have the right to say this and point the attention at the *real* problem - and it's fake developers.
  - iam-TJ 4y ago
    I join you in these sentiments - born-n-bred on the farm, still there, and hacking software since 1981! My most regular outburst of swearing is about 'dev-ops' and lack of engineering discipline and occurs almost daily :)
- alexhultman 4y ago
  Yeah a "farmer" is not a literal farmer. It's slang for uneducated people aka peasants.
  - throwaway9870 4y ago
    You are just digging yourself in a bigger hole :) Modern farmers are not anywhere close to uneducated peasants.
    - alexhultman 4y ago
      It's a poorly translated word written in a haste. A better translation would be "red neck" (I think?). This is translated from my inner Swedish thoughts and we don't have Californian wokeness here (especially not down here in Skåne). But instead of finding a new word I reformulated that section everyone is so upset about. It's fascinating how easy it is for internet people to assume worst intent in everything, and look for things to be offended by, rather than to read between the lines and adjust ones interpretation based on context. If you read the section, applying context from what the project is about and where it is used, you should pretty easily grasp the overall idea that is: "compression sucks and is incredibly inefficient". It would be a much more interesting thread if people took that message and argued against/for it, technically. But now we are here arguing about some word usage that might be offensive if interpreted in a very literal way. Congratulations; we have reached peak cancel culture. I hope you enjoy it while it lasts.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jasonlotito 4y ago
> In gaming culture, a farmer is someone who repeats the same actions for extended periods of time. This isn't gaming. This is a programming library. > It's not an insult in gaming context This is not a "gaming context." > and "farming" in the context of our craft does not relate to actual farmers I've never heard anyone refer to "farming" in the context of programming. Please share with me more of the use of farming in the context of programming (not gaming). > I have to be devil's advocate This is a lie. You do not "have" to be devil's advocate. This was a choice you made. > yet the freedom to say so is revoked by the very community he helps. This is a lie. Stop being a liar. Finally, do not "revoke" my "freedom" to say this to you by disagreeing or arguing against me.
- nske 4y ago
  Speaking for myself, how I interpreted it is that there is some relationship between how unskilled developers do their job and what takes place during actual farming. When I first heard of the term farmer/farming in-game, I didn't think anyone meant to point to any stereotypes either, just that the actual act had similarities with farming. Granted, in this sentence it's easier to interpret it the other way, but isn't it always better to give someone the benefit of the doubt? I can see how the process of programming lazily without understanding can resemble farming -and there might be a more intuitive metaphor if the author is not a native english speaker. peace
- zmxz 4y ago
  > This isn't gaming. This is a programming library. And humans can be gamers and programmers. Welcome to real life, tutorial is now over. > This is not a "gaming context." When a word is placed in quotes, convention is that it has alternate meaning. I gave perspective, gaming is something that's socially well-known, along with its terms. Don't pretend you're unaware. Don't be a liar. > I've never heard anyone refer to "farming" in the context of programming. Please share with me more of the use of farming in the context of programming (not gaming). I won't. > This is a lie. You do not "have" to be devil's advocate. This was a choice you made. And these are mental gymnastics that you allow yourself so you can justify being rude. Don't be a liar. > This is a lie. > Stop being a liar. Feel free to stop being a liar. > Finally, do not "revoke" my "freedom" to say this to you by disagreeing or arguing against me. I can assume you're accustomed to being invasive, rude and impolite but please, keep it for your inner circle of people. Or keep giving out orders to strangers from internet who will never interact with you after exchanging these words.