5 ms·

I've been reviewing a lot of resume's lately that call out the candidate's exact date of birth and marital status. Many even call out their parents' occupation.

I've been reviewing a lot of resume's lately that call out the candidate's exact date of birth and marital status. Many even call out their parents' occupation. I've seen more than one that say "Mother's Occupation: Homemaker". Although I now realize this is a cultural difference issue, it caught me off guard at first.

chrisseaton 4y ago
> Many even call out their parents' occupation. Are those German resumes? Very odd. Can't be used for anything except discrimination.
- StudyAnimal 4y ago
  A German would point out, the very purpose of a job application is discrimination.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    Discrimination based on relevant skills surely - not irrelevant things like family situation? In other countries things like that are actually illegal.
- morelisp 4y ago
  I've looked at a ton of German resumes and never seen this. Only once on someone from (and at the time of writing, in) South Asia. (German resumes frequently do have familial status though, and of course always with the fucking photographs...)
  - StevePerkins 4y ago
    Photographs are back. Either your resume contains a link to your LinkedIn profile, or else your LinkedIn IS your resume to begin with.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    For example https://german.dartmouth.edu/opportunities/working-germany/writing-german-resume https://german.dartmouth.edu/opportunities/working-germany/w... mentions family info, which seems bizarre to British and US people, as it's not something a candidate can control, so it seems unfair to discriminate based on this. I know German culture is different of course.
    - zwaps 4y ago
      Family info in this context means whether you are married and have children or not
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        What relevance does that have to do on whether you can do your job or not, though? And here's another example of specifically parent occupation: https://qz.com/1055416/americans-would-be-shocked-by-common-resume-practices-in-germany https://qz.com/1055416/americans-would-be-shocked-by-common-...
        morelisp 4y ago
        While that site is basically correctly, "not that long ago" should be interpreted more like "within post-war era", not "a few years ago". Photo yes, Familienstand yes still today for conservative companies, parents occupations not since probably the 80s in most places that would consider foreigners at all. (It is, as you say, all fairly obvious bullshit designed to make sure the right social class gets preferential treatment...)
        gsich 4y ago
        Paid parental leave maybe? Also if you have children you might be absent because they are sick and whatnot. So yes probably discrimination.
    - still_grokking 4y ago
      The provided link was fun to read (as a German). Personal highlights: > German employers simply don't know what to make of an Art History major who wants to take a temporary job in an accounting firm before going on to medical school. I'm still laughing. I guess actually nobody knows what to make of an Art History major in the first place. That's one of the typical things one would study if your only plan in live is to become "a wife" (OK, today maybe also "a husband"), or when you have absolutely no clue what you want to do and need additional time to orientate. Also nobody would hire an Art History major to do an accounting job. Never ever! That's just ridiculous. You need professional training in accounting if you like to do accounting. And going to medical school after getting an Art History major? Alone the idea is even more ridiculous than the idea that you could do an accounting job with an Art History major… You need almost teen years to become a full medic. Also getting into some of these universities require that you stand in line for quite some time, and have absolute top grades form school. The people that consider going for Art History study aren't the ones that would have any realistic chance to ever attend (a German) medical university. So alone that sentence above is actually a kind of joke. But that's not everything funny in there. > They may neither know what the Ivy League is nor know which university is more prestigious than another. > In Germany, where you went to school is largely irrelevant. Jop. And that's a big advantage! Maybe not out of the perspective of some Dartmouth scholars, but most people on this planet agree that the anglo-saxon system for higher education is just complete madness. The whole Bologna Process BS (which is modeled by the anglo-saxon madness) significantly decreased the quality of German's higher education, and at the same time almost invalidated the achievement of possessing an university diploma. Now everybody can get some "Art History Bachelor" degree, or some crap like that… I strongly hope that we'll stop that madness at some point before our education finally hits the lows of the anglo-saxon equivalent! There was a time that a German "Dipl.-Ing." or "Dr." title had some meaning. What you get nowadays with most "master" students are people that would miserably fail at "Vordiplom"… Also, "everybody" and his dog has a "bachelor degree" which makes it actually useless (and made just "regular school" out of university).
noodlesUK 4y ago
Which country/region are these resumes from? I would be very surprised to see something like that on a U.S. or UK resume/CV. I know that it’s quite common for photos and personal details to be on CVs in parts of continental Europe though.
- aasasd 4y ago
  My bet is on India or thereabouts.
  - daveslash 4y ago
    You are correct.
    - aasasd 4y ago
      I didn't even think about this at first, but—perhaps the parents' occupation is there because of the caste system? I heard that it's still around not just in India, but also in diasporas like the Silicon Valley.
      - daveslash 4y ago
        Could be. I work with a lot of Indians, both here and abroad. I won't/can't profess to be an expert on them of their culture. But I can say that I've learned a lot over the years. I can only speculate (but won't do so here) on the reason for giving parent's occupation. From what I understand, the caste system is not what it once was and is beginning to disappear into the past, but it's legacy can still be felt in some profound ways both in India and here in the U.S.

chrisseaton 4y ago

> Many even call out their parents' occupation. Are those German resumes? Very odd. Can't be used for anything except discrimination.

StudyAnimal 4y ago
A German would point out, the very purpose of a job application is discrimination.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Discrimination based on relevant skills surely - not irrelevant things like family situation? In other countries things like that are actually illegal.
morelisp 4y ago
I've looked at a ton of German resumes and never seen this. Only once on someone from (and at the time of writing, in) South Asia. (German resumes frequently do have familial status though, and of course always with the fucking photographs...)
- StevePerkins 4y ago
  Photographs are back. Either your resume contains a link to your LinkedIn profile, or else your LinkedIn IS your resume to begin with.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  For example https://german.dartmouth.edu/opportunities/working-germany/writing-german-resume https://german.dartmouth.edu/opportunities/working-germany/w... mentions family info, which seems bizarre to British and US people, as it's not something a candidate can control, so it seems unfair to discriminate based on this. I know German culture is different of course.
  - zwaps 4y ago
    Family info in this context means whether you are married and have children or not
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      What relevance does that have to do on whether you can do your job or not, though? And here's another example of specifically parent occupation: https://qz.com/1055416/americans-would-be-shocked-by-common-resume-practices-in-germany https://qz.com/1055416/americans-would-be-shocked-by-common-...
      - morelisp 4y ago
        While that site is basically correctly, "not that long ago" should be interpreted more like "within post-war era", not "a few years ago". Photo yes, Familienstand yes still today for conservative companies, parents occupations not since probably the 80s in most places that would consider foreigners at all. (It is, as you say, all fairly obvious bullshit designed to make sure the right social class gets preferential treatment...)
      - gsich 4y ago
        Paid parental leave maybe? Also if you have children you might be absent because they are sick and whatnot. So yes probably discrimination.
  - still_grokking 4y ago
    The provided link was fun to read (as a German). Personal highlights: > German employers simply don't know what to make of an Art History major who wants to take a temporary job in an accounting firm before going on to medical school. I'm still laughing. I guess actually nobody knows what to make of an Art History major in the first place. That's one of the typical things one would study if your only plan in live is to become "a wife" (OK, today maybe also "a husband"), or when you have absolutely no clue what you want to do and need additional time to orientate. Also nobody would hire an Art History major to do an accounting job. Never ever! That's just ridiculous. You need professional training in accounting if you like to do accounting. And going to medical school after getting an Art History major? Alone the idea is even more ridiculous than the idea that you could do an accounting job with an Art History major… You need almost teen years to become a full medic. Also getting into some of these universities require that you stand in line for quite some time, and have absolute top grades form school. The people that consider going for Art History study aren't the ones that would have any realistic chance to ever attend (a German) medical university. So alone that sentence above is actually a kind of joke. But that's not everything funny in there. > They may neither know what the Ivy League is nor know which university is more prestigious than another. > In Germany, where you went to school is largely irrelevant. Jop. And that's a big advantage! Maybe not out of the perspective of some Dartmouth scholars, but most people on this planet agree that the anglo-saxon system for higher education is just complete madness. The whole Bologna Process BS (which is modeled by the anglo-saxon madness) significantly decreased the quality of German's higher education, and at the same time almost invalidated the achievement of possessing an university diploma. Now everybody can get some "Art History Bachelor" degree, or some crap like that… I strongly hope that we'll stop that madness at some point before our education finally hits the lows of the anglo-saxon equivalent! There was a time that a German "Dipl.-Ing." or "Dr." title had some meaning. What you get nowadays with most "master" students are people that would miserably fail at "Vordiplom"… Also, "everybody" and his dog has a "bachelor degree" which makes it actually useless (and made just "regular school" out of university).

noodlesUK 4y ago

Which country/region are these resumes from? I would be very surprised to see something like that on a U.S. or UK resume/CV. I know that it’s quite common for photos and personal details to be on CVs in parts of continental Europe though.

aasasd 4y ago
My bet is on India or thereabouts.
- daveslash 4y ago
  You are correct.
  - aasasd 4y ago
    I didn't even think about this at first, but—perhaps the parents' occupation is there because of the caste system? I heard that it's still around not just in India, but also in diasporas like the Silicon Valley.
    - daveslash 4y ago
      Could be. I work with a lot of Indians, both here and abroad. I won't/can't profess to be an expert on them of their culture. But I can say that I've learned a lot over the years. I can only speculate (but won't do so here) on the reason for giving parent's occupation. From what I understand, the caste system is not what it once was and is beginning to disappear into the past, but it's legacy can still be felt in some profound ways both in India and here in the U.S.