6 ms·

I thought the same until I saw my boss with a basic MacBook setup move around his OS, programs, and IDE faster than me. The only difference was he didn’t spend

I thought the same until I saw my boss with a basic MacBook setup move around his OS, programs, and IDE faster than me. The only difference was he didn’t spend 20 hours setting it up at every new dev job. Custom OS’s are a complete waste of time, and you’re just fighting an uphill battle. I’d take my 20+ hour battery life MacBook Pro over anything else all day everyday.

newaccount74 4y ago
I assume your boss didn't have to install Xcode? Installing Xcode updates is something that I spend way too much time on....
- amatecha 4y ago
  I have a couple friends who live pretty off-grid and the colossal 10gb+ XCode updates was one reason they abandoned Apple ecosystem. It's just not sustainable when your entire month's data allotment isn't enough to download the update for a single piece of software you require to do your work.
  - stepbeek 4y ago
    I live semi-rurally with really crappy ADSL available. Starlink was a god-send. The number of projects that require extremely good connectivity is really surprising. In particular, I was surprised by how much docker pull struggles on a poor connection.
- wmurmann 4y ago
  They take forever but it’s only once in a while. If you’re just trying to support newer iOS versions you can just yank them from here instead of updating. https://github.com/iGhibli/iOS-DeviceSupport https://github.com/iGhibli/iOS-DeviceSupport
- saagarjha 4y ago
  They don’t actually take that long now. They’re a big download but beyond that it’s only few minutes to extract them.
  - vetinari 4y ago
    I have exactly opposite problem - it downloads quickly, but installing takes eternity (via app store). Bonus points when I leave the computer to let it install; then it thinks it is idle, puts itself into sleep and the install fails. Rinse, repeat.
    - shantara 4y ago
      I don't know, what App store is doing during the install, but using it to manage Xcode has always been extremely irritating. It's a lot easier to manually download Xcode from Apple's dev portal. The download speed always maxes out my internet connection, and installing is just a question of unpacking the archive, which doesn't make more than a few minutes..
  - masukomi 4y ago
    > They’re a big download but beyond that it’s only few minutes to extract them. That's your privilege speaking. "a big download" (xcode size) can be VERY expensive (relative to typical income) and VERY slow in some countries. As an industry we kinda suck about assuming that just because we have a lot of bandwidth and cheap data, everyone else does too. We impose a lot of unnecessary cost on poor people in 3rd world countries because of our lazyness with regards to bandwidth, CPU usage, RAM, etc., and or disregard of their financial and infrastructural realities.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  Get Xcodes.app. Installing and updating becomes one click. You still have to wait on th download, but it will spaurate your network connection unlike the App Store updates. Installing multiple versions side by side also just works using this method.
amatecha 4y ago
I use an a pretty standard install of i3 for my window manager, the OS is almost nothing. At least on my OpenBSD machines, the OS is so simple and well-documented, I can run `ps -aux` and know what literally every process does. This hasn't been the case for me on Mac/Win in like, 15 years or something. I use Windows at work. It's no faster than when I'm working on my BSD laptop, but I also am not doing extensive development on my laptop. I have done a bit (like building my personal website) and I didn't do anything special to get it going. I have so many different machines, I've got a streamlined setup pretty much down pat, so I can get up and running on anything super quickly. The other thing is: dotfiles. I've got my OpenBSD dotfiles and my Linux dotfiles. Copy from one machine to the new one, done deal. Oh, I should add, it's definitely not an uphill battle, or at least it sure hasn't been for me. I just checked and I installed this OpenBSD install on Oct 14th 2021, so I just passed the 1-year mark. It's practically unchanged since I got it set up... there's no battle at all, it's the most boring, unintrusive OS I've ever used in my life. The updates are nearly effortless and they don't break my software. I've never been more satisfied with an OS to be honest. (That said I'm not doing music production on this machine, but I'm doing almost all other "everyday" computing tasks and a bit of coding/tinkering, etc.)
azangru 4y ago
> I thought the same until I saw my boss with a basic MacBook setup move around his OS, programs, and IDE faster than me. Could you tell us how he does it? Every time I have several windows of the same app between two displays, or one window being in the full-screen mode while the other not, I find that I can't move between them quickly or at all with keyboard shortcuts. Can't stop thinking that there must be something I haven't discovered, because the experience is miserable.
- tuzemec 4y ago
  Try alt-tab: https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ It allows easy switching between _windows_.
- minhazm 4y ago
  This is one of the things I'm not a fan of in Mac OS. CMD + Tab cycles through applications, but not windows within the same application. You can cycle through windows of the same application with [CMD + `]. There are some third party app switchers as well that you could try.
  - kealanau 4y ago
    Try command tiles; that's what I use between windows. Also Commands 1 - 10 can switch between tabs on a window
    - bluenose69 4y ago
      Wow, thanks for that. I never knew that command-digit worked that way. I might not be a typical user, though; my work is mainly done in terminals so the keybindings I use most are those for zsh, tmux, vim, etc.
  - fauigerzigerk 4y ago
    Agreed. 12 years after switching to Mac, this inconsistency is the one and only thing that still hurts my productivity compared to Windows/Linux.
robmusial 4y ago
This comment doesn't track at all. Trying to get a fresh macOS machine to include everything a new hire needs to do basic development work in a Kubernetes environment requires a bunch of Jamf intervention, brew scripts, and dot files. And even then the first week you're constantly needing them to go to their security settings to allow "untrusted" programs to run. Meanwhile someone with a bone stock Fedora Workstation install is 99% of the way there. Yes, you can bikeshed all day get lost in your custom.el, .vimrc, or window manager options, but you can do that on macOS too. For most dev machines Fedora + vscode gives you RTR productivity while maintaining a respectable level of free-as-in-freedom.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  Installing minikube etc in MacOS is just doing it the hard way Install a linux vm and do k8s there, not on MacOS. (not to mention you can do without k8s for most of development, I don't know why people like making their lives harder)
  - DoctorDabadedoo 4y ago
    I don't develop on MacOS, but having a vm setup as the easy choice doesn't sound nice.
  - miroljub 4y ago
    So basically, the advice is to install another OS as a virtual machine to make MacOS usable for actual work? In a thread where people complain about the MacOS usability?
    - raverbashing 4y ago
      This is strawmanning my comment I can use (and develop on) MacOS just fine without k8s but if you need it, installing it on a VM is easier
  - boesboes 4y ago
    Or you can just install docker with brew and enable k8s afaik
pleb_nz 4y ago
20 hours on a Mac pro? I get 6. I know airs have good battery life but no one I know gets more than 20 on a pro if they're working. What are you doing to get 20+ on a Mac pro?
- trevyn 4y ago
  Screen brightness all the way down. iStat Menus has a thing where you can put the current power draw in watts in the menu bar, and it's easy to run at 4-5W with an M1 Pro while just surfing and text editing. With just a couple spikes for compiling, installing, etc. you can very easily hit close to 20 hours for many coding workflows if that's your goal. I like a bright screen, so I usually get closer to 10 hours, but it charges fast — about 50% in 30 minutes if it's low. (The last 20-30% runs a little slower because battery chemistry.)
- matwood 4y ago
  Depends on what you're doing. Webdev and I can get 10-15 hours on my 16" M1 Max MBP. Java dev is on the lower end. I also use iStatMenus and pay attention to anything using significant power - a runaway browser tab for example.
apatheticonion 4y ago
I agree, though I'd take a 20+ hour battery life Linux laptop.
andrekandre 4y ago
> I’d take my 20+ hour battery life MacBook Pro does anyone actually get this many hours? i get at most around 4hrs, but maybe this is because xcode/native dev stresses the system more...?
- ProZsolt 4y ago
  I get around 10-12 hours on an M1 Pro with docker running in the background. My girlfriend easily gets around 20 hours on her M1 Air, but she mostly in chrome.
  - andrekandre 4y ago
    interesting, good to know!

newaccount74 4y ago

I assume your boss didn't have to install Xcode? Installing Xcode updates is something that I spend way too much time on....

amatecha 4y ago
I have a couple friends who live pretty off-grid and the colossal 10gb+ XCode updates was one reason they abandoned Apple ecosystem. It's just not sustainable when your entire month's data allotment isn't enough to download the update for a single piece of software you require to do your work.
- stepbeek 4y ago
  I live semi-rurally with really crappy ADSL available. Starlink was a god-send. The number of projects that require extremely good connectivity is really surprising. In particular, I was surprised by how much docker pull struggles on a poor connection.
wmurmann 4y ago
They take forever but it’s only once in a while. If you’re just trying to support newer iOS versions you can just yank them from here instead of updating. https://github.com/iGhibli/iOS-DeviceSupport https://github.com/iGhibli/iOS-DeviceSupport
saagarjha 4y ago
They don’t actually take that long now. They’re a big download but beyond that it’s only few minutes to extract them.
- vetinari 4y ago
  I have exactly opposite problem - it downloads quickly, but installing takes eternity (via app store). Bonus points when I leave the computer to let it install; then it thinks it is idle, puts itself into sleep and the install fails. Rinse, repeat.
  - shantara 4y ago
    I don't know, what App store is doing during the install, but using it to manage Xcode has always been extremely irritating. It's a lot easier to manually download Xcode from Apple's dev portal. The download speed always maxes out my internet connection, and installing is just a question of unpacking the archive, which doesn't make more than a few minutes..
- masukomi 4y ago
  > They’re a big download but beyond that it’s only few minutes to extract them. That's your privilege speaking. "a big download" (xcode size) can be VERY expensive (relative to typical income) and VERY slow in some countries. As an industry we kinda suck about assuming that just because we have a lot of bandwidth and cheap data, everyone else does too. We impose a lot of unnecessary cost on poor people in 3rd world countries because of our lazyness with regards to bandwidth, CPU usage, RAM, etc., and or disregard of their financial and infrastructural realities.
nicoburns 4y ago
Get Xcodes.app. Installing and updating becomes one click. You still have to wait on th download, but it will spaurate your network connection unlike the App Store updates. Installing multiple versions side by side also just works using this method.

amatecha 4y ago

I use an a pretty standard install of i3 for my window manager, the OS is almost nothing. At least on my OpenBSD machines, the OS is so simple and well-documented, I can run `ps -aux` and know what literally every process does. This hasn't been the case for me on Mac/Win in like, 15 years or something. I use Windows at work. It's no faster than when I'm working on my BSD laptop, but I also am not doing extensive development on my laptop. I have done a bit (like building my personal website) and I didn't do anything special to get it going. I have so many different machines, I've got a streamlined setup pretty much down pat, so I can get up and running on anything super quickly. The other thing is: dotfiles. I've got my OpenBSD dotfiles and my Linux dotfiles. Copy from one machine to the new one, done deal. Oh, I should add, it's definitely not an uphill battle, or at least it sure hasn't been for me. I just checked and I installed this OpenBSD install on Oct 14th 2021, so I just passed the 1-year mark. It's practically unchanged since I got it set up... there's no battle at all, it's the most boring, unintrusive OS I've ever used in my life. The updates are nearly effortless and they don't break my software. I've never been more satisfied with an OS to be honest. (That said I'm not doing music production on this machine, but I'm doing almost all other "everyday" computing tasks and a bit of coding/tinkering, etc.)

azangru 4y ago

> I thought the same until I saw my boss with a basic MacBook setup move around his OS, programs, and IDE faster than me. Could you tell us how he does it? Every time I have several windows of the same app between two displays, or one window being in the full-screen mode while the other not, I find that I can't move between them quickly or at all with keyboard shortcuts. Can't stop thinking that there must be something I haven't discovered, because the experience is miserable.

tuzemec 4y ago
Try alt-tab: https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ It allows easy switching between _windows_.
minhazm 4y ago
This is one of the things I'm not a fan of in Mac OS. CMD + Tab cycles through applications, but not windows within the same application. You can cycle through windows of the same application with [CMD + `]. There are some third party app switchers as well that you could try.
- kealanau 4y ago
  Try command tiles; that's what I use between windows. Also Commands 1 - 10 can switch between tabs on a window
  - bluenose69 4y ago
    Wow, thanks for that. I never knew that command-digit worked that way. I might not be a typical user, though; my work is mainly done in terminals so the keybindings I use most are those for zsh, tmux, vim, etc.
- fauigerzigerk 4y ago
  Agreed. 12 years after switching to Mac, this inconsistency is the one and only thing that still hurts my productivity compared to Windows/Linux.

robmusial 4y ago

This comment doesn't track at all. Trying to get a fresh macOS machine to include everything a new hire needs to do basic development work in a Kubernetes environment requires a bunch of Jamf intervention, brew scripts, and dot files. And even then the first week you're constantly needing them to go to their security settings to allow "untrusted" programs to run. Meanwhile someone with a bone stock Fedora Workstation install is 99% of the way there. Yes, you can bikeshed all day get lost in your custom.el, .vimrc, or window manager options, but you can do that on macOS too. For most dev machines Fedora + vscode gives you RTR productivity while maintaining a respectable level of free-as-in-freedom.

raverbashing 4y ago
Installing minikube etc in MacOS is just doing it the hard way Install a linux vm and do k8s there, not on MacOS. (not to mention you can do without k8s for most of development, I don't know why people like making their lives harder)
- DoctorDabadedoo 4y ago
  I don't develop on MacOS, but having a vm setup as the easy choice doesn't sound nice.
- miroljub 4y ago
  So basically, the advice is to install another OS as a virtual machine to make MacOS usable for actual work? In a thread where people complain about the MacOS usability?
  - raverbashing 4y ago
    This is strawmanning my comment I can use (and develop on) MacOS just fine without k8s but if you need it, installing it on a VM is easier
- boesboes 4y ago
  Or you can just install docker with brew and enable k8s afaik

pleb_nz 4y ago

20 hours on a Mac pro? I get 6. I know airs have good battery life but no one I know gets more than 20 on a pro if they're working. What are you doing to get 20+ on a Mac pro?

trevyn 4y ago
Screen brightness all the way down. iStat Menus has a thing where you can put the current power draw in watts in the menu bar, and it's easy to run at 4-5W with an M1 Pro while just surfing and text editing. With just a couple spikes for compiling, installing, etc. you can very easily hit close to 20 hours for many coding workflows if that's your goal. I like a bright screen, so I usually get closer to 10 hours, but it charges fast — about 50% in 30 minutes if it's low. (The last 20-30% runs a little slower because battery chemistry.)
matwood 4y ago
Depends on what you're doing. Webdev and I can get 10-15 hours on my 16" M1 Max MBP. Java dev is on the lower end. I also use iStatMenus and pay attention to anything using significant power - a runaway browser tab for example.

apatheticonion 4y ago

I agree, though I'd take a 20+ hour battery life Linux laptop.

andrekandre 4y ago

> I’d take my 20+ hour battery life MacBook Pro does anyone actually get this many hours? i get at most around 4hrs, but maybe this is because xcode/native dev stresses the system more...?

ProZsolt 4y ago
I get around 10-12 hours on an M1 Pro with docker running in the background. My girlfriend easily gets around 20 hours on her M1 Air, but she mostly in chrome.
- andrekandre 4y ago
  interesting, good to know!