4 ms·

That's a bit strange. The USB Implementers Forum people are partly why we're in this mess. What if someone comes up with something just better, and doesn't wan

That's a bit strange. The USB Implementers Forum people are partly why we're in this mess. What if someone comes up with something just better, and doesn't want to deal with the cruft and backward compatibility requirements of USB?

Dylan16807 4y ago
For charging, the spec is tiny. For slow to medium data, USB 2.0 is baked in to so many chips that it's hard to imagine wanting anything else. For fast data, maybe you want a new port in some situations, but does that also have to be your only charging port?
- MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
  > For charging, the spec is tiny. Have you ever looked at the horror that is USB-PD? The reason you've never seen v1 devices in the real world is because the spec was impossible to implement so they had to fix it in a v2.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    I'm aware it vastly changed between 1 and 2, but I'm talking about using the current version, the fixed one. "Tiny" probably isn't the best word but it's straightforward enough. It can be put into tiny chips.
    - MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
      If "written in a way that sort of make sense if all you can do is turn XML into Java code and is absolutely horrible to actually implement", then yes its straightforward. Compare with PCIe, which is actually sane.
rasz 4y ago
micro USB is 15 years old, mini 17. Just after introduction of mini everyone and their dog tried pushing their own slightly tweaked proprietary variant. There were at least 6 separate incompatible shapes. Sony had one (afair different shield bend on the mini connector), Nikon, Canon etc. It gets better, sometimes same connector had different pinouts depending on the brand https://connector.pinoutguide.com/8_pin_UC-E6_like-mini-usb_proprietary/ https://connector.pinoutguide.com/8_pin_UC-E6_like-mini-usb_... thats 8 different pinout for same non standard connector. Nowadays only one brand is against interoperability.
- dwaite 4y ago
  micro and mini USB both had three variants - A, B, and A/B - as part of USB OTG (On the Go). This is because they wanted you to be able to connect a computer to a camera, but also to be able to connect that camera to a printer.
dwaite 4y ago
> The USB Implementers Forum people are partly why we're in this mess. IMHO it really is. For the first releases of power delivery, the IF decided to _not_ go with Apple's existing system that they developed to negotiate charging levels for iPods, iPhones and iPads. Instead they standardized another new, incompatible mechanism. If you ever wondered why so many Apple devices and cables don't have USB logos, it is because they were left with little way to be compliant with PD 1.0 and still support literally a billion previously shipped devices and chargers at the time. This caused a market with incompatibilities between Android and iDevice charging ecosystems, which (again IMHO) was what caused the last round of EU mandates in the first place. Qualcomm and others capitalized on various gaps with their own proprietary charging protocols, which then created a need for their chips in chargers as well. Things really didn't even start to get fixed until rather recently, with Power Delivery 3.0 and PPS.

Dylan16807 4y ago

For charging, the spec is tiny. For slow to medium data, USB 2.0 is baked in to so many chips that it's hard to imagine wanting anything else. For fast data, maybe you want a new port in some situations, but does that also have to be your only charging port?

MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
> For charging, the spec is tiny. Have you ever looked at the horror that is USB-PD? The reason you've never seen v1 devices in the real world is because the spec was impossible to implement so they had to fix it in a v2.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  I'm aware it vastly changed between 1 and 2, but I'm talking about using the current version, the fixed one. "Tiny" probably isn't the best word but it's straightforward enough. It can be put into tiny chips.
  - MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
    If "written in a way that sort of make sense if all you can do is turn XML into Java code and is absolutely horrible to actually implement", then yes its straightforward. Compare with PCIe, which is actually sane.

rasz 4y ago

micro USB is 15 years old, mini 17. Just after introduction of mini everyone and their dog tried pushing their own slightly tweaked proprietary variant. There were at least 6 separate incompatible shapes. Sony had one (afair different shield bend on the mini connector), Nikon, Canon etc. It gets better, sometimes same connector had different pinouts depending on the brand https://connector.pinoutguide.com/8_pin_UC-E6_like-mini-usb_proprietary/ https://connector.pinoutguide.com/8_pin_UC-E6_like-mini-usb_... thats 8 different pinout for same non standard connector. Nowadays only one brand is against interoperability.

dwaite 4y ago
micro and mini USB both had three variants - A, B, and A/B - as part of USB OTG (On the Go). This is because they wanted you to be able to connect a computer to a camera, but also to be able to connect that camera to a printer.

dwaite 4y ago

> The USB Implementers Forum people are partly why we're in this mess. IMHO it really is. For the first releases of power delivery, the IF decided to _not_ go with Apple's existing system that they developed to negotiate charging levels for iPods, iPhones and iPads. Instead they standardized another new, incompatible mechanism. If you ever wondered why so many Apple devices and cables don't have USB logos, it is because they were left with little way to be compliant with PD 1.0 and still support literally a billion previously shipped devices and chargers at the time. This caused a market with incompatibilities between Android and iDevice charging ecosystems, which (again IMHO) was what caused the last round of EU mandates in the first place. Qualcomm and others capitalized on various gaps with their own proprietary charging protocols, which then created a need for their chips in chargers as well. Things really didn't even start to get fixed until rather recently, with Power Delivery 3.0 and PPS.