4 ms·

There's an interesting concoction invented by a reddit user known as the 'borax combo' or 'NeXTC' that aims to reproduce the effects of MDMA without the neuroto

There's an interesting concoction invented by a reddit user known as the 'borax combo' or 'NeXTC' that aims to reproduce the effects of MDMA without the neurotoxicity. It's made up of 5-MAPB (a benzofuran, which this post is about), 2-FMA, and 5-MeO-MiPT. Supposedly it's pretty good. These guys can get away with legally selling pressed pills of this combo in Europe. I'm not associated with this company. https://chemical-collective.com/product/pinkstars/ https://chemical-collective.com/product/pinkstars/

notjulianjaynes 4y ago
I've taken 5-mapb by itself and it was pretty damn close to MDMA IMO. Throwing a tryptamine and a stimulantn in the mix sounds fun, but like it would be way more intense than "molly."
- feet 4y ago
  Only if those compounds are included at high-ish doses. The parent comment doesn't talk about what amounts the compounds are present in
monktastic1 4y ago
I remember ordering 5-MAPB back in the day and then flushing it because I wasn't totally sure of its toxicity. I'm still not sure, but there are at least some indications that it has physical toxicity similar to MDMA and 5-APB: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27156124/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27156124/ I'm not sure about neurotoxicity either, but if you do some searching online, you'll find many anecdotal reports of people having miserable times for sometimes months following use. Those are mostly high or frequent doses, but I certainly don't feel comfortable taking a drug about which we know so little.
- DontchaKnowit 4y ago
  Okay reading that abstract- that's just what happens when you take drugs lmao. All type of shit gets fucked up for the duration of the high for all type of drugs. Tachycardia, sweating, blood pressure changes. None of that says "toxicity" to me, in the traditional sense of the word.
  - adrianN 4y ago
    You and I apparently have different ideas of the "traditional sense" of toxic. Fucking up all kinds of shit certainly sounds toxic to me.
    - feet 4y ago
      But that's literally not what "toxicity" means https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicity
      - monktastic1 4y ago
        In the field this journal publishes in, it is (or else they wouldn't accept such a paper titled "Acute Toxicity ...").
    - solarkraft 4y ago
      Is coffee toxic?
      - adrianN 4y ago
        Yes, caffeine is quite toxic. Water is also toxic. Toxicity is always dose dependent.
        feet 4y ago
        I would absolutely not call caffeine "quite" toxic. It's barely toxic, you need to consume over a gram to do anything really nasty iirc
        adrianN 4y ago
        When it was still easy to buy caffeine powder people regularly ended up in the hospital.
        4y ago
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
> without the neurotoxicity I would disregard any claims from Reddit users about a polydrug combo lacking neurotoxicity. It's unlikely that any of those three research chemicals (aka obscure recreational drugs) have been significantly tested for neurotoxicity alone, and definitely not in that specific combination. Internet recreational drug users can be a little too over-confident in the safety of their drug use.
- DontchaKnowit 4y ago
  Yeah generally serotonin releases are neurotoxic and I'm pretty convinced amphetamines are low grade nuerotoxic as well. No shot this combo is not neurotoxic to some degree.
  - dr_dshiv 4y ago
    It’s the opposite. High dose Amphetamines are neurotoxic. The classic study impugning MDMA involved mislabeled amphetamines.
  - elefanten 4y ago
    Can you elaborate or point to sources? Are you referring to all forms and doses, including ADHD medications? Curious to learn more.
    - DontchaKnowit 4y ago
      Yeah amphetamine salts are an add med and they are almost certainly if not certainly neurotoxic. See : audio recordings of Jim Jones before and after years of heavy amphetamine abuse.
comboy 4y ago
Even without any physical changes in the brain, aren't our experiences relative? I mean heroin addicts are often saying they wish they never tried it. So if the drug is just about pleasure, doesn't it lessen all your future pleasure just by having that comparison? Sincere question. ("without neurotoxicity" seems pretty unfounded btw without a few papers by independent groups)
Synaesthesia 4y ago
Buyer beware on that website, lots of scams out there!

notjulianjaynes 4y ago

I've taken 5-mapb by itself and it was pretty damn close to MDMA IMO. Throwing a tryptamine and a stimulantn in the mix sounds fun, but like it would be way more intense than "molly."

feet 4y ago
Only if those compounds are included at high-ish doses. The parent comment doesn't talk about what amounts the compounds are present in

monktastic1 4y ago

I remember ordering 5-MAPB back in the day and then flushing it because I wasn't totally sure of its toxicity. I'm still not sure, but there are at least some indications that it has physical toxicity similar to MDMA and 5-APB: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27156124/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27156124/ I'm not sure about neurotoxicity either, but if you do some searching online, you'll find many anecdotal reports of people having miserable times for sometimes months following use. Those are mostly high or frequent doses, but I certainly don't feel comfortable taking a drug about which we know so little.

DontchaKnowit 4y ago
Okay reading that abstract- that's just what happens when you take drugs lmao. All type of shit gets fucked up for the duration of the high for all type of drugs. Tachycardia, sweating, blood pressure changes. None of that says "toxicity" to me, in the traditional sense of the word.
- adrianN 4y ago
  You and I apparently have different ideas of the "traditional sense" of toxic. Fucking up all kinds of shit certainly sounds toxic to me.
  - feet 4y ago
    But that's literally not what "toxicity" means https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicity
    - monktastic1 4y ago
      In the field this journal publishes in, it is (or else they wouldn't accept such a paper titled "Acute Toxicity ...").
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    Is coffee toxic?
    - adrianN 4y ago
      Yes, caffeine is quite toxic. Water is also toxic. Toxicity is always dose dependent.
      - feet 4y ago
        I would absolutely not call caffeine "quite" toxic. It's barely toxic, you need to consume over a gram to do anything really nasty iirc
        adrianN 4y ago
        When it was still easy to buy caffeine powder people regularly ended up in the hospital.
        4y ago

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

> without the neurotoxicity I would disregard any claims from Reddit users about a polydrug combo lacking neurotoxicity. It's unlikely that any of those three research chemicals (aka obscure recreational drugs) have been significantly tested for neurotoxicity alone, and definitely not in that specific combination. Internet recreational drug users can be a little too over-confident in the safety of their drug use.

DontchaKnowit 4y ago
Yeah generally serotonin releases are neurotoxic and I'm pretty convinced amphetamines are low grade nuerotoxic as well. No shot this combo is not neurotoxic to some degree.
- dr_dshiv 4y ago
  It’s the opposite. High dose Amphetamines are neurotoxic. The classic study impugning MDMA involved mislabeled amphetamines.
- elefanten 4y ago
  Can you elaborate or point to sources? Are you referring to all forms and doses, including ADHD medications? Curious to learn more.
  - DontchaKnowit 4y ago
    Yeah amphetamine salts are an add med and they are almost certainly if not certainly neurotoxic. See : audio recordings of Jim Jones before and after years of heavy amphetamine abuse.

comboy 4y ago

Even without any physical changes in the brain, aren't our experiences relative? I mean heroin addicts are often saying they wish they never tried it. So if the drug is just about pleasure, doesn't it lessen all your future pleasure just by having that comparison? Sincere question. ("without neurotoxicity" seems pretty unfounded btw without a few papers by independent groups)

Synaesthesia 4y ago

Buyer beware on that website, lots of scams out there!