8 ms·

As the name suggests, rogue likes are games like rogue which generally implies a procedurally generated dungeon, aerial view which might use ascii graphics, a g

As the name suggests, rogue likes are games like rogue which generally implies a procedurally generated dungeon, aerial view which might use ascii graphics, a gameplay loop involving going through floors killing monsters while collecting objects and levelling up a character and permanent death. They are fairly obscure games and not really popular. What has become really popular and was introduced by roguelikes is using procedural generation in games. When it’s done well it does wonder for replayability.

haunter 4y ago
> They are fairly obscure games and not really popular Nah come on. They are incredibly popular since the indie revival age (~2005). Arguably one of the most popular indie genre. Spelunky, FTL, The Binding of Isaac, Rogue Legacy, Slay the Spire, Darkest Dungeon just to name a few. Hades, which is pretty much an AA rougelike. Recently the biggest hit is Vampire Survivors [0]. Top 50 game on Steam with 20-35k players. 0, https://store.steampowered.com/app/1794680/Vampire_Survivors/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1794680/Vampire_Survivors...
- henryfjordan 4y ago
  Vampire Survivor and others like it are starting to form their own sub-genre. There are so many bullet-hell roguelikes just like it coming out these days. Making a clone seem like a great first game project.
  - TillE 4y ago
    I had the exact same thought: a Vampire Survivors clone seems like a genuinely great first game project. The core gameplay is really simple but actually fun (unlike making a Pong clone or whatever), and drawing hundreds of sprites and particles on-screen forces you to learn how to use the GPU and collision detection properly.
- djur 4y ago
  What makes Vampire Survivors a roguelike? It's a Robotron-like, if anything. A twin stick shooter with power ups.
  - henryfjordan 4y ago
    You get power ups as you progress and lose them when you die. A lot of the game is figuring out which combinations of power ups have good synergy. If you excuse the lack of procedural generation, it is not much different than other modern roguelike games like Hades or FTL. Depends on where you draw the lines I suppose.
    - qu4z-2 4y ago
      > You get power ups as you progress and lose them when you die. That's every shmup!
      - baq 4y ago
        Yeah Vampire Slayers is a fantasy themed shmup but it has nice persistent upgrade mechanics which are rougelite-like. Also it’s just addictive, punches way above its weight.
    - djur 4y ago
      I think every single aspect of the traditional roguelike definitions can be bent, even permadeath, but procedural generation is the exception. Different runs need to give you different situations and different choices to make, and procedural generation is the only way to do that.
      - mcv 4y ago
        Yeah, without procedural generation, it becomes just like any other game where you just have to learn the right path to take. Because these are very hard games where you're most likely never going to see the end, the start already needs to be interesting and different every time.
      - 4y ago
- nhinck2 4y ago
  Arguing about genres is the dumbest past time but... none of those are roguelikes as per the op and traditionally. I do so wish we had landed on a different genre name for games that share these meta characteristics.
  - socialismisok 4y ago
    We did land on a genre name for them, it just happened to be "roguelike". Now, there's a historical definition of what a roguelike is and the current definition and the are related, but not the same. Language evolves, and often the root etymology of a word becomes not quite accurate. One can stand on the shore and tell the tide it is wrong for coming in, but that's not going to stop it. You can tell people to not evolve their language, but it'll still evolve.
    - mcv 4y ago
      So you're saying that there's two different genres of games that happen to share the same name? A bit like "hard core" music, I guess. Except "hard core" has a meaning outside those genres, whereas "roguelike" explicitly refers to the first game of one of those genres, and I don't think the other genre ever had a game by that name that defined it. So it's basically just trading on the name of another genre.
    - nhinck2 4y ago
      It's not that I don't think roguelike should be used except in strictest interpretation. It's that the current "genre" isn't a genre, it doesn't describe how you play the game, it doesn't describe what you do.
      - bowl_of_milk 4y ago
        How does it not describe what you do? Every Roguelike has a specific goal/win condition that a player is trying to reach with permadeath and procedural elements. Even then, most video-game genres are even LESS descriptive than "Roguelike". If a game is a "shooter", "simulation", "action", or "roleplaying" game, it's quite hard to tell what those things really mean. It turns out that "Roguelike" has actually become one of the most descriptive terms when it comes to game mechanics in recent years.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  None of the games you listed are roguelikes. I think the most popular roguelike of the past decade is Pixel Dungeon and it remains fairly niche. They are all games with procedural generation or elements of randomness which have absolutely nothing to do with the gameplay loop of Rogue. At some point people called them roguelites but I don’t think it makes much sense.
  - bowl_of_milk 4y ago
    You're using the strict sense of the definition and being overly pedantic. All of those games have the concept of "runs" where you encounter procedurally generated environments and empower your character with proceduraly generated items. That is quite literally the gameplay loop that was borrowed from Rogue. "Roguelike" is a genre descriptor much like "FPS" is a genre descriptor. It doesn't have to tell you what the graphics look like or how the game is played--no need to gatekeep the term.
    - anthk 4y ago
      Then Zelda for the GB it's a roguelike.
swayvil 4y ago
Procedural generation is the wild frontier. It's like a visit from aliens.

haunter 4y ago

> They are fairly obscure games and not really popular Nah come on. They are incredibly popular since the indie revival age (~2005). Arguably one of the most popular indie genre. Spelunky, FTL, The Binding of Isaac, Rogue Legacy, Slay the Spire, Darkest Dungeon just to name a few. Hades, which is pretty much an AA rougelike. Recently the biggest hit is Vampire Survivors [0]. Top 50 game on Steam with 20-35k players. 0, https://store.steampowered.com/app/1794680/Vampire_Survivors/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1794680/Vampire_Survivors...

henryfjordan 4y ago
Vampire Survivor and others like it are starting to form their own sub-genre. There are so many bullet-hell roguelikes just like it coming out these days. Making a clone seem like a great first game project.
- TillE 4y ago
  I had the exact same thought: a Vampire Survivors clone seems like a genuinely great first game project. The core gameplay is really simple but actually fun (unlike making a Pong clone or whatever), and drawing hundreds of sprites and particles on-screen forces you to learn how to use the GPU and collision detection properly.
djur 4y ago
What makes Vampire Survivors a roguelike? It's a Robotron-like, if anything. A twin stick shooter with power ups.
- henryfjordan 4y ago
  You get power ups as you progress and lose them when you die. A lot of the game is figuring out which combinations of power ups have good synergy. If you excuse the lack of procedural generation, it is not much different than other modern roguelike games like Hades or FTL. Depends on where you draw the lines I suppose.
  - qu4z-2 4y ago
    > You get power ups as you progress and lose them when you die. That's every shmup!
    - baq 4y ago
      Yeah Vampire Slayers is a fantasy themed shmup but it has nice persistent upgrade mechanics which are rougelite-like. Also it’s just addictive, punches way above its weight.
  - djur 4y ago
    I think every single aspect of the traditional roguelike definitions can be bent, even permadeath, but procedural generation is the exception. Different runs need to give you different situations and different choices to make, and procedural generation is the only way to do that.
    - mcv 4y ago
      Yeah, without procedural generation, it becomes just like any other game where you just have to learn the right path to take. Because these are very hard games where you're most likely never going to see the end, the start already needs to be interesting and different every time.
    - 4y ago
nhinck2 4y ago
Arguing about genres is the dumbest past time but... none of those are roguelikes as per the op and traditionally. I do so wish we had landed on a different genre name for games that share these meta characteristics.
- socialismisok 4y ago
  We did land on a genre name for them, it just happened to be "roguelike". Now, there's a historical definition of what a roguelike is and the current definition and the are related, but not the same. Language evolves, and often the root etymology of a word becomes not quite accurate. One can stand on the shore and tell the tide it is wrong for coming in, but that's not going to stop it. You can tell people to not evolve their language, but it'll still evolve.
  - mcv 4y ago
    So you're saying that there's two different genres of games that happen to share the same name? A bit like "hard core" music, I guess. Except "hard core" has a meaning outside those genres, whereas "roguelike" explicitly refers to the first game of one of those genres, and I don't think the other genre ever had a game by that name that defined it. So it's basically just trading on the name of another genre.
  - nhinck2 4y ago
    It's not that I don't think roguelike should be used except in strictest interpretation. It's that the current "genre" isn't a genre, it doesn't describe how you play the game, it doesn't describe what you do.
    - bowl_of_milk 4y ago
      How does it not describe what you do? Every Roguelike has a specific goal/win condition that a player is trying to reach with permadeath and procedural elements. Even then, most video-game genres are even LESS descriptive than "Roguelike". If a game is a "shooter", "simulation", "action", or "roleplaying" game, it's quite hard to tell what those things really mean. It turns out that "Roguelike" has actually become one of the most descriptive terms when it comes to game mechanics in recent years.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
None of the games you listed are roguelikes. I think the most popular roguelike of the past decade is Pixel Dungeon and it remains fairly niche. They are all games with procedural generation or elements of randomness which have absolutely nothing to do with the gameplay loop of Rogue. At some point people called them roguelites but I don’t think it makes much sense.
- bowl_of_milk 4y ago
  You're using the strict sense of the definition and being overly pedantic. All of those games have the concept of "runs" where you encounter procedurally generated environments and empower your character with proceduraly generated items. That is quite literally the gameplay loop that was borrowed from Rogue. "Roguelike" is a genre descriptor much like "FPS" is a genre descriptor. It doesn't have to tell you what the graphics look like or how the game is played--no need to gatekeep the term.
  - anthk 4y ago
    Then Zelda for the GB it's a roguelike.

swayvil 4y ago

Procedural generation is the wild frontier. It's like a visit from aliens.