5 ms·

Roguelike games are one of those major events that happened that I completely missed. It's hugely popular and I still don't know what a roguelike game is. lol

pavlov 4y ago
Rogue is actually one of the oldest computer games, the original is from 1980: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(video_game)
- regular 4y ago
  Huh. I was programming my Ataris at that time and have worked as a professional programmer for decades, but I never heard of "Rogue" until seeing some posts about it on this site. "Roguelike" is one of those irritating, smugly obscure terms that keep surfacing in HN post titles. What doesn't help is the failure to capitalize "Rogue," which would at least provide a clue that this is a reference to a particular work.
- remram 4y ago
  There's a port on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1443430/Rogue/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1443430/Rogue/
TulliusCicero 4y ago
These days it usually refers to games that have permadeath + procedurally generated levels, so every time you die you start the whole game over (but an entire 'run' isn't very long, less than two hours definitely, often less than one). Sometimes there's "meta progression" that does actually persist some unlocks or upgrades in between runs. Originally rogue likes were that, but specifically in the gameplay genre of turn-based dungeon crawling RPG's. These days they can be in other genres: twin stick shooters, card games, action platformers, etc.
- bbreier 4y ago
  I _think_ that the meta progression is the sticking point that determines whether the game is a roguelike or a roguelite, roguelite being the one with the meta progression.
  - TulliusCicero 4y ago
    It can be, but I've also seen the definition of, "a roguelike is a turn-based dungeon crawling RPG, a rogue-lite is when the game mechanics are some other genre".
- GuB-42 4y ago
  To add some details. While runs are typically short, it is not always the case. What makes permadeath more acceptable is that thanks to procedural generation, your next run will be different from your last one, avoiding the repetition that can make starting over such a bad experience. It is such a great combo that permadeath and procedural generation are most often seen together, the roguelike/roguelite formula. Permadeath is very engaging, try playing a game in "hardcore" mode if it is available and you will see what I mean, it plays with your emotions like nothing else. Problem is, once you are dead, starting over is a tedious experience, same levels, same story, no more surprises, etc... That's where procedural generation comes in, giving you new levels and maintaining the level of excitement on every run. The sense of progression comes from going further and further as you get better. In the same way, procedural generation is great but for a single run, it will never be as good as a handcrafted environment, it really shines when you do multiple runs, and a great way of making people do multiple runs is, you guessed it, permadeath.
  - TulliusCicero 4y ago
    Right, roguelikes in a lot of ways are similar to ye old arcade and console games that were short on content but were very challenging; the 'content' was effectively that you had to die a whole lot and reset back to the beginning of the game, gradually getting further each time as you got better. Contra for the NES would be an excellent example of this. The whole game lasts less than an hour for even a moderately-paced run, but it's quite difficult if you're not used to that specific type of game, so in practice it'll take much longer than that for most people to beat it, as they have to restart multiple times. Same deal for Super Mario Bros 1. Roguelikes are the same kind of loop, but with the improvement that the levels are somewhat different each time. They're still usually similar enough in style/theme/enemies that skills carry over from run to run, but you at least can't just brute force memorize everything. You have to Git Gud or you'll be stuck forever.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
As the name suggests, rogue likes are games like rogue which generally implies a procedurally generated dungeon, aerial view which might use ascii graphics, a gameplay loop involving going through floors killing monsters while collecting objects and levelling up a character and permanent death. They are fairly obscure games and not really popular. What has become really popular and was introduced by roguelikes is using procedural generation in games. When it’s done well it does wonder for replayability.
- haunter 4y ago
  > They are fairly obscure games and not really popular Nah come on. They are incredibly popular since the indie revival age (~2005). Arguably one of the most popular indie genre. Spelunky, FTL, The Binding of Isaac, Rogue Legacy, Slay the Spire, Darkest Dungeon just to name a few. Hades, which is pretty much an AA rougelike. Recently the biggest hit is Vampire Survivors [0]. Top 50 game on Steam with 20-35k players. 0, https://store.steampowered.com/app/1794680/Vampire_Survivors/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1794680/Vampire_Survivors...
  - henryfjordan 4y ago
    Vampire Survivor and others like it are starting to form their own sub-genre. There are so many bullet-hell roguelikes just like it coming out these days. Making a clone seem like a great first game project.
    - TillE 4y ago
      I had the exact same thought: a Vampire Survivors clone seems like a genuinely great first game project. The core gameplay is really simple but actually fun (unlike making a Pong clone or whatever), and drawing hundreds of sprites and particles on-screen forces you to learn how to use the GPU and collision detection properly.
  - djur 4y ago
    What makes Vampire Survivors a roguelike? It's a Robotron-like, if anything. A twin stick shooter with power ups.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
Same, and even though I've tried them later on, I can't get into 'true' rogue games. That said, elements of the game(s) are now found in a ton of popular games; a big one nowadays is Hades, which is a roguelite in that the levels are only semi-random, but it has a high replayability value, even when you make it to 'the end'. There's other games out there that just use procedural / semi-random generation; Diablo and Diablo 2 were big 20 years ago, Bloodborne was big 5ish years ago and they're still making discoveries in the randomized dungeons (with some number manipulation though, has to be said), etc.

pavlov 4y ago

Rogue is actually one of the oldest computer games, the original is from 1980: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(video_game)

regular 4y ago
Huh. I was programming my Ataris at that time and have worked as a professional programmer for decades, but I never heard of "Rogue" until seeing some posts about it on this site. "Roguelike" is one of those irritating, smugly obscure terms that keep surfacing in HN post titles. What doesn't help is the failure to capitalize "Rogue," which would at least provide a clue that this is a reference to a particular work.
remram 4y ago
There's a port on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1443430/Rogue/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1443430/Rogue/

TulliusCicero 4y ago

These days it usually refers to games that have permadeath + procedurally generated levels, so every time you die you start the whole game over (but an entire 'run' isn't very long, less than two hours definitely, often less than one). Sometimes there's "meta progression" that does actually persist some unlocks or upgrades in between runs. Originally rogue likes were that, but specifically in the gameplay genre of turn-based dungeon crawling RPG's. These days they can be in other genres: twin stick shooters, card games, action platformers, etc.

bbreier 4y ago
I _think_ that the meta progression is the sticking point that determines whether the game is a roguelike or a roguelite, roguelite being the one with the meta progression.
- TulliusCicero 4y ago
  It can be, but I've also seen the definition of, "a roguelike is a turn-based dungeon crawling RPG, a rogue-lite is when the game mechanics are some other genre".
GuB-42 4y ago
To add some details. While runs are typically short, it is not always the case. What makes permadeath more acceptable is that thanks to procedural generation, your next run will be different from your last one, avoiding the repetition that can make starting over such a bad experience. It is such a great combo that permadeath and procedural generation are most often seen together, the roguelike/roguelite formula. Permadeath is very engaging, try playing a game in "hardcore" mode if it is available and you will see what I mean, it plays with your emotions like nothing else. Problem is, once you are dead, starting over is a tedious experience, same levels, same story, no more surprises, etc... That's where procedural generation comes in, giving you new levels and maintaining the level of excitement on every run. The sense of progression comes from going further and further as you get better. In the same way, procedural generation is great but for a single run, it will never be as good as a handcrafted environment, it really shines when you do multiple runs, and a great way of making people do multiple runs is, you guessed it, permadeath.
- TulliusCicero 4y ago
  Right, roguelikes in a lot of ways are similar to ye old arcade and console games that were short on content but were very challenging; the 'content' was effectively that you had to die a whole lot and reset back to the beginning of the game, gradually getting further each time as you got better. Contra for the NES would be an excellent example of this. The whole game lasts less than an hour for even a moderately-paced run, but it's quite difficult if you're not used to that specific type of game, so in practice it'll take much longer than that for most people to beat it, as they have to restart multiple times. Same deal for Super Mario Bros 1. Roguelikes are the same kind of loop, but with the improvement that the levels are somewhat different each time. They're still usually similar enough in style/theme/enemies that skills carry over from run to run, but you at least can't just brute force memorize everything. You have to Git Gud or you'll be stuck forever.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago

As the name suggests, rogue likes are games like rogue which generally implies a procedurally generated dungeon, aerial view which might use ascii graphics, a gameplay loop involving going through floors killing monsters while collecting objects and levelling up a character and permanent death. They are fairly obscure games and not really popular. What has become really popular and was introduced by roguelikes is using procedural generation in games. When it’s done well it does wonder for replayability.

haunter 4y ago
> They are fairly obscure games and not really popular Nah come on. They are incredibly popular since the indie revival age (~2005). Arguably one of the most popular indie genre. Spelunky, FTL, The Binding of Isaac, Rogue Legacy, Slay the Spire, Darkest Dungeon just to name a few. Hades, which is pretty much an AA rougelike. Recently the biggest hit is Vampire Survivors [0]. Top 50 game on Steam with 20-35k players. 0, https://store.steampowered.com/app/1794680/Vampire_Survivors/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1794680/Vampire_Survivors...
- henryfjordan 4y ago
  Vampire Survivor and others like it are starting to form their own sub-genre. There are so many bullet-hell roguelikes just like it coming out these days. Making a clone seem like a great first game project.
  - TillE 4y ago
    I had the exact same thought: a Vampire Survivors clone seems like a genuinely great first game project. The core gameplay is really simple but actually fun (unlike making a Pong clone or whatever), and drawing hundreds of sprites and particles on-screen forces you to learn how to use the GPU and collision detection properly.
- djur 4y ago
  What makes Vampire Survivors a roguelike? It's a Robotron-like, if anything. A twin stick shooter with power ups.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

Same, and even though I've tried them later on, I can't get into 'true' rogue games. That said, elements of the game(s) are now found in a ton of popular games; a big one nowadays is Hades, which is a roguelite in that the levels are only semi-random, but it has a high replayability value, even when you make it to 'the end'. There's other games out there that just use procedural / semi-random generation; Diablo and Diablo 2 were big 20 years ago, Bloodborne was big 5ish years ago and they're still making discoveries in the randomized dungeons (with some number manipulation though, has to be said), etc.