7 ms·

And this is why people buy macbooks. Apple products have a minimum guaranteed level of quality. There isn’t another computing hardware company which doesn’t h

And this is why people buy macbooks. Apple products have a minimum guaranteed level of quality. There isn’t another computing hardware company which doesn’t have a “hot garbage” tier of products.

HeckFeck 4y ago
And curiously enough, this was the moment she converted to being an Apple user. She expected and found the same quality on her Mac as she did on her iPhone. > There isn’t another computing hardware company which doesn’t have a “hot garbage” tier of products. There were many more vertically integrated software-hardware PC companies in the 80s. A true shame that some of the others didn't survive; I'd love to be writing this message on my 2022 Acorn RISC PC or Amiga. What we witness now is the end result of the Wintel monopoly.
- another2another 4y ago
  >There were many more vertically integrated software-hardware PC companies in the 80s. >A true shame that some of the others didn't survive; I'd love to be writing this message on my 2022 Acorn RISC PC or Amiga. >What we witness now is the end result of the Wintel monopoly. A great point, BeOS was basically the last attempt anybody had at creating a new desktop OS, and when it failed, so did the last vestiges of anybody else's appetite for trying again. I love my Mac, but really enjoyed GEM on my Atari ST too.
- hinkley 4y ago
  And people wonder why I still hold a grudge against Microsoft. We still live with the consequences of three decades of bad behavior. A little deathbed conversion doesn’t mean as much as some think it does.
ansgri 4y ago
Is OSX on average more reliable than Windows though? I've never had much experience with it but heard some stories about its bad backward compatibility and not-too-pleasant upgrades. Thinking about finally getting a Macbook instead of my current Linux/Windows dual boot since Macs have the unique combination of professional-grade display, very powerful hardware and full support of proprietary apps that I need. And I mostly dislike Apple UX choices.
- unsupp0rted 4y ago
  OSX doesn’t surprise me in hostile ways
  - fsflover 4y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25074959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25074959
    - shishy 4y ago
      That sounds like it was a bug / mistake than a deliberate decision by the company unless I misunderstood something?
      - fsflover 4y ago
        Information about every executable your run on "your" laptop goes to a special server belonging to Apple. It must be a huge and costly mistake...
        such12 4y ago
        Nobody is saying that the malware check is a mistake.
        fsflover 4y ago
        But it is.
        such12 4y ago
        No it isn’t. Most apple users rely on apple to protect them from threats.
        fsflover 4y ago
belorn 4y ago
It wasn't that many months ago that I had a conversation with a customer that if they wanted to continue to use email (outside the browser) then the best option was to buy a new mac because their current mac version don't support the new certificates required for modern tls and in order to get a new macos version they need to buy a new device. If I remember right their mac-thing was around 5 years old?
- a2tech 4y ago
  They may have bought it 5 years ago, but it wasn't 5 years old. Also for future reference you can update the certs on older OS X versions to get a few more years out of a system for someone thats happy with it: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/422332/how-do-i-update-my-root-certificates-on-an-older-version-of-mac-os-e-g-el-capi https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/422332/how-do-i-up...
  - belorn 4y ago
    An interesting hack. We went with a different hack to accomplish a working solution, but good to know there is alternatives. The idea in the link is that one transfer the System Root certificates from another (more modern) Mac to which the customer should already own. In theory I guess we as a email provider could continuously buy the latest version of mac and use that as the transfer host (hopefully do not transferring any account specific certificates). It must work without any corner cases (not overwriting anything on the customer end), the script need to work in future macos versions, and the assumption is that the first group of certificates is the relevant ones, and that it doesn't break anything on the customer end. For those who has not read the link, this do not update the System Roots keychain since users are not allowed to do that in macos. Instead this adds a trustRoot certificate. A nice trick. One of the comments say that it didn't fix the problem for them but who know what their situation was.
  - nucleardog 4y ago
    Yep. My wife's still running a MBP from 2012 that I think finally got its last update to Big Sur (released 2020) without issue. Looking at the compatibility charts, everything from 2015 on-ward supports Monterey (2021, the latest version). The last laptop that couldn't update past El Capitan was 2009. As far as Macbooks (non-pro), last one stuck on El Capitan is the 2009 model as well. And it's not even that Apple broke anything on the 13 year old laptop, it's just that the rest of the world moved on and they're no longer fixing it.
WillAdams 4y ago
I would, if Apple would just make a MacBook w/ a stylus --- I don't want the hassle of multiple devices, but I'm not willing to give up a stylus --- at this point, I'm considering just breaking down and getting a Mac Mini and Wacom Cintiq Pro 16 and giving up portability/battery.
- macintux 4y ago
  What applications do you want to use a stylus with? iPads are really good at what they do, and Apple makes integration with their laptops straightforward. You can easily share files back and forth. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if you could use an iPad as an external display with the Apple Pencil, but I haven’t researched that.
  - junar 4y ago
    Yeah, so Sidecar is free for owners of recent-ish iPads and Macs. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210380 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210380 Luna Display is a more premium option. https://astropad.com/luna-display-vs-apple-sidecar/ https://astropad.com/luna-display-vs-apple-sidecar/
  - WillAdams 4y ago
    Carbide Create and Macromedia Freehand are the major stumbling blocks. The former isn't available for the iPad, the latter predates it, and I find the nearest analogue, Serif's Affinity Designer not quite right. I also like having access to a file system, and the ability to run arbitrary opensource tools such as OpenSCAD and OpenSCAD Graph Editor and RapCAD.
the_third_wave 4y ago
No, that is why people turn to Linux (and *BSD to a much (, much) smaller extent) after having been thoroughly disgusted by these practices whether they come from Microsoft (Windows et al) or Apple or anyone else. It is the only "platform" where you can be really free from this type of behaviour. They first install it on the hardware previously used for Windows or Mac OS and quickly find out their old hardware could perform much better than it did when burdened by those marketing strategies disguised as operating systems. The next step comes when they buy new hardware on which they directly install some Linux distribution, usually keeping the factory-installed Windows or Mac OS around where it tends to languish. When they then decide to boot into those factory images they are immediately hit with the upgrade hammer which only increases their determination to stay away from those systems as much as possible. This is easier for those who used to run Windows than for those who need to use Mac OS to develop for one of the other Apple brands since these all mandate the use of Xcode [1] which needs Mac OS which "needs" [1] Apple hardware. [1] as in "is only licenced for", there are ways out of this...

HeckFeck 4y ago

And curiously enough, this was the moment she converted to being an Apple user. She expected and found the same quality on her Mac as she did on her iPhone. > There isn’t another computing hardware company which doesn’t have a “hot garbage” tier of products. There were many more vertically integrated software-hardware PC companies in the 80s. A true shame that some of the others didn't survive; I'd love to be writing this message on my 2022 Acorn RISC PC or Amiga. What we witness now is the end result of the Wintel monopoly.

another2another 4y ago
>There were many more vertically integrated software-hardware PC companies in the 80s. >A true shame that some of the others didn't survive; I'd love to be writing this message on my 2022 Acorn RISC PC or Amiga. >What we witness now is the end result of the Wintel monopoly. A great point, BeOS was basically the last attempt anybody had at creating a new desktop OS, and when it failed, so did the last vestiges of anybody else's appetite for trying again. I love my Mac, but really enjoyed GEM on my Atari ST too.
hinkley 4y ago
And people wonder why I still hold a grudge against Microsoft. We still live with the consequences of three decades of bad behavior. A little deathbed conversion doesn’t mean as much as some think it does.

ansgri 4y ago

Is OSX on average more reliable than Windows though? I've never had much experience with it but heard some stories about its bad backward compatibility and not-too-pleasant upgrades. Thinking about finally getting a Macbook instead of my current Linux/Windows dual boot since Macs have the unique combination of professional-grade display, very powerful hardware and full support of proprietary apps that I need. And I mostly dislike Apple UX choices.

unsupp0rted 4y ago
OSX doesn’t surprise me in hostile ways
- fsflover 4y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25074959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25074959
  - shishy 4y ago
    That sounds like it was a bug / mistake than a deliberate decision by the company unless I misunderstood something?
    - fsflover 4y ago
      Information about every executable your run on "your" laptop goes to a special server belonging to Apple. It must be a huge and costly mistake...
      - such12 4y ago
        Nobody is saying that the malware check is a mistake.
        fsflover 4y ago
        But it is.
        such12 4y ago
        No it isn’t. Most apple users rely on apple to protect them from threats.
        fsflover 4y ago

belorn 4y ago

It wasn't that many months ago that I had a conversation with a customer that if they wanted to continue to use email (outside the browser) then the best option was to buy a new mac because their current mac version don't support the new certificates required for modern tls and in order to get a new macos version they need to buy a new device. If I remember right their mac-thing was around 5 years old?

a2tech 4y ago
They may have bought it 5 years ago, but it wasn't 5 years old. Also for future reference you can update the certs on older OS X versions to get a few more years out of a system for someone thats happy with it: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/422332/how-do-i-update-my-root-certificates-on-an-older-version-of-mac-os-e-g-el-capi https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/422332/how-do-i-up...
- belorn 4y ago
  An interesting hack. We went with a different hack to accomplish a working solution, but good to know there is alternatives. The idea in the link is that one transfer the System Root certificates from another (more modern) Mac to which the customer should already own. In theory I guess we as a email provider could continuously buy the latest version of mac and use that as the transfer host (hopefully do not transferring any account specific certificates). It must work without any corner cases (not overwriting anything on the customer end), the script need to work in future macos versions, and the assumption is that the first group of certificates is the relevant ones, and that it doesn't break anything on the customer end. For those who has not read the link, this do not update the System Roots keychain since users are not allowed to do that in macos. Instead this adds a trustRoot certificate. A nice trick. One of the comments say that it didn't fix the problem for them but who know what their situation was.
- nucleardog 4y ago
  Yep. My wife's still running a MBP from 2012 that I think finally got its last update to Big Sur (released 2020) without issue. Looking at the compatibility charts, everything from 2015 on-ward supports Monterey (2021, the latest version). The last laptop that couldn't update past El Capitan was 2009. As far as Macbooks (non-pro), last one stuck on El Capitan is the 2009 model as well. And it's not even that Apple broke anything on the 13 year old laptop, it's just that the rest of the world moved on and they're no longer fixing it.

WillAdams 4y ago

I would, if Apple would just make a MacBook w/ a stylus --- I don't want the hassle of multiple devices, but I'm not willing to give up a stylus --- at this point, I'm considering just breaking down and getting a Mac Mini and Wacom Cintiq Pro 16 and giving up portability/battery.

macintux 4y ago
What applications do you want to use a stylus with? iPads are really good at what they do, and Apple makes integration with their laptops straightforward. You can easily share files back and forth. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if you could use an iPad as an external display with the Apple Pencil, but I haven’t researched that.
- junar 4y ago
  Yeah, so Sidecar is free for owners of recent-ish iPads and Macs. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210380 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210380 Luna Display is a more premium option. https://astropad.com/luna-display-vs-apple-sidecar/ https://astropad.com/luna-display-vs-apple-sidecar/
- WillAdams 4y ago
  Carbide Create and Macromedia Freehand are the major stumbling blocks. The former isn't available for the iPad, the latter predates it, and I find the nearest analogue, Serif's Affinity Designer not quite right. I also like having access to a file system, and the ability to run arbitrary opensource tools such as OpenSCAD and OpenSCAD Graph Editor and RapCAD.

the_third_wave 4y ago

No, that is why people turn to Linux (and *BSD to a much (, much) smaller extent) after having been thoroughly disgusted by these practices whether they come from Microsoft (Windows et al) or Apple or anyone else. It is the only "platform" where you can be really free from this type of behaviour. They first install it on the hardware previously used for Windows or Mac OS and quickly find out their old hardware could perform much better than it did when burdened by those marketing strategies disguised as operating systems. The next step comes when they buy new hardware on which they directly install some Linux distribution, usually keeping the factory-installed Windows or Mac OS around where it tends to languish. When they then decide to boot into those factory images they are immediately hit with the upgrade hammer which only increases their determination to stay away from those systems as much as possible. This is easier for those who used to run Windows than for those who need to use Mac OS to develop for one of the other Apple brands since these all mandate the use of Xcode [1] which needs Mac OS which "needs" [1] Apple hardware. [1] as in "is only licenced for", there are ways out of this...