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Ask HN: Is the world going to shit?
About a year ago I stumbled upon the degrowth concept and subsequently picked up the book "Degrowth: Less is More" by Jason Hickel. For those unfamiliar with the term: "an infinite expansion of the economy is fundamentally contradictory to finite planetary boundaries".[1]
There's been some of HN posts mentioning degrowth in the past but they were heavily criticized[2][3]. I get some degrowthist literature might seem too apocalyptic, but they make some good points:
- Criticism of "decoupling": there's no way of our GDP keeps growing indefinitely while reducing our ecological footprint. In fact, despite all the advancements made in renewables during the past decades global CO2 emissions are at an all-time high.
- Very few people know how to build/grow anything end to end. Consumerism appears to be the only way to live in the West right now (with it, a shared feeling of powerlessness).
At the same time, I stumble upon articles from time to time that are indirectly aligned with the same ideas although from an entirely different perspective. These couple of HN posts come to mind:
- "The super-rich 'preppers' planning to save themselves" [4]
- "I, Pencil (1958)" [5]
- "CO2 emissions are being 'outsourced' by rich countries to rising economies"[6] (The Guardian, not HN)
I gotta admit, this has me pretty worried. However I also have hope (and with hope, it comes action). Questions that I'd like to get input on from the HN community:
1. Am I overly paranoid for believing this? (degrowth seems like our only way out)
2. Is believing technology will save us from climate collapse really that, a belief? Believing this would mean society should keep doing its thing for a tiny tiny chance of getting a free "get out of jail" card (i.e. decoupling is not a fable after all).
3. On the other hand, if we know it's a belief: why aren't our so-called leaders doing anything real about it (albeit at the cost of GDP), are they just trying to prevent widespread panic? I see how this might sound a bit "conspiranoic" but i can't just find better words for it...
4. Regardless of the answer to the question above on #2, why aren't people actively building resilient hyperlocal communities and actively ignore what brought us here in the first place? I.e. globalization and widespread consumerism
4.1. Low-tech, no-tech initiatives seem pretty plausible to me (provided we leave aside our current individualistic values as a society)
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrowth
[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32416815
[3]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20058894
[4]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32711413
[5]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13016980
[6]: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/19/co2-emissions-outsourced-rich-nations-rising-economies
- newaccount2021 4y ago
- kidgorgeous 4y agoI just came from the beach where there were many smiling and happy families....so I'm gonna say no.
- friedman23 4y ago> an infinite expansion of the economy is fundamentally contradictory to finite planetary boundaries This is a stupid premise. People illiterate in both physics and economics seem to think that economic growth is bound by the laws of thermodynamics. This is easily proven false by contradiction: Let's say you have a few 2x4s and nails, by rearranging them into a chair you've created economic value. No extra raw materials were required to get from the planks of wood to the chair but value was created anyway. Find a better use for the wood and nails than a chair and we have economic growth.
- legutierr 4y ago> No extra raw materials were required to get from the planks of wood to the chair but value was created anyway. The labor required to build the chair is one additional ingredient. The transformation of wood and nails to chair does not happen spontaneously.
- friedman23 4y agoThe labor is a small fixed cost. Depending on what is done with the labor the leverage is potentially infinite (eg. many internet business that earn a million or more per year for every employee they have hired). Growth can happen by getting the same labor to do something more valuable (maybe building houses instead of chairs?)