5 ms·

Here’s a wild question: Are we not all friends here on HN? Or am I so depraved and desperate? Have I socially died and don’t even know it, friends? We’re all

Here’s a wild question: Are we not all friends here on HN? Or am I so depraved and desperate? Have I socially died and don’t even know it, friends? We’re all friends right? Right? What the fuck is going on.

dgfitz 4y ago
I don’t consider anyone on HN a friend if that means anything.
- jesuscript 4y ago
  Maybe that’s the intangible the linked post is not addressing. What does friendship even mean to the people they tracked? Being able to talk to people who are willing to spend time talking back is a basis for friendship, at least in my book. Friendship doesn’t always have to be so serious.
  - Viliam1234 4y ago
    For me, a friend is a person I can discuss personal topics with. On HN, the topic is given (the article we comment on), and it is usually not personal. If it happens to be personal, it is most likely not the personal topic I would like to discuss now. Also, if any of us died today, most likely no one else on HN would ever notice. That too is not exactly what I imagine as "friendship".
    - nobody9999 4y ago
      >For me, a friend is a person I can discuss personal topics with. And for me, a friend is family I get to choose for myself. Anyone else is, at best, a friendly acquaintance. I expect there are many other definitions out there as well.
- conductr 4y ago
  Me either but I can see how it serves the purpose of a friend and for some people it could support increased isolation
A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
There are people on HN, who I completely 100% disagree with and likely would not want to spend time with in any other setting ( and likely vice versa ). However, the best part of HN is that me being friends, or even like minded, is not mandatory for the purpose of this site ( edit: in fact, to an extent, being able to present a different or conventionally objectionable, perspective in a compelling way is more important than same value framework ). In short, only you can answer that question.
- jesuscript 4y ago
  But you find some of these deplorable people engaging (possibly even fun and interesting), right? Interesting how varied (imho, high) our standards are for another human being. Fun and interesting is enough for me, we don’t need to be best friends. We can be some semblance of friends. Or is that asking for too much as well? Anyways, I agree with you. The drop in friendships can’t be fucking tracked because everyone has their own idea of what it means.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    << The drop in friendships can’t be fucking tracked because everyone has their own idea of what it means. Exactly. And all this is before we even get to differences in languages and cultures. In the old country, word friend has very different connotations when compared to US equivalent. There it is basically reserved for the highest level of US version of the word. In US the world covers a whole range of social affinities. << Interesting how varied (imho, high) our standards are for another human being. This is why being a kid has its benefits. You have X? We are best friends now. As you get older, possession of item X is a very sucky proxy for a good relationship.
OrangeMonkey 4y ago
We arn't friends - at best everyone here are strangers attending a conference where there are 4-5 competing views and barely concealed contempt. That said, you f'ing matter and you deserve to be friends with people. You can do it too. Just get out, talk to people in the real world, whatever just do something different from what you are doing now. I'm rooting for you man.
- paganel 4y ago
  > barely concealed contempt. Maybe I'm looking at this through rose-tinted glasses, but I see that feeling as decreasing here on HN.
  - OrangeMonkey 4y ago
    You may be right and maybe I am just viewing things from an opposite ideological view. @dang - any input here? Hows moderation been in 2016 vs now?
ctoth 4y ago
I'd say we are most of us members of 3-4 distinct tribes all gathering around this oasis, if I had to put words to it. 3-4 distinct tribes with obvious intermixing.
thakoppno 4y ago
I think we’re friends in a meaningful sense. My in—real-life friends live all over the world and we have a group thread. I don’t see that as too different. I remember hearing some futurist a decade or so ago say how indistinguishable real-life and online life will be eventually. At the time I couldn’t believe it but your comment synthesizes it in a way. I would be considerably more lonely, less inspired and knowledgeable without this community. That’s friendship to me.
godelski 4y ago
I think it is hard to form friendships through platforms like HN. There's no direct messaging and we often forget usernames. It is a great place for public discussions and we are friendly to one another, but I don't think we're building strong bonds. If I see a coworker on HN it doesn't make me think more or less of them tbh. Though I think sharing the articles with friends and discussing them can be an aspect that helps build friendships.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  I agree, it is hard to form friendships on HN. I've managed to meet some people here in other digital spaces and on average it's been a positive experience. But even so, having a contact form in bio doesn't typically result in many contacts.
civilized 4y ago
You will get a lot of condescension for saying this - a lot of people assuming you are naive and don't understand "real" friendship. And I have to confess, my own experience having "friends" online is that many people who seem like they might be friends, end up not being. But I do find that you can have real friends online, and it's not all that much harder or less common than having real friends in person. And the cameraderie we might have with a lot of people over HN isn't that far removed from real friendship. My standards for friend are pretty low these days - anyone who can have an interesting, respectful conversation without becoming hateful or condescending over a difference in opinions is an awfully good candidate.
pochekailov 4y ago
Would you go to a pub with me? Would you listen to me ranting about evil nimbyists preventing any form of urban development and thus blocking economic growth? Would you call me asking me to help you with an unexpected problem? Can I stop by your place just to hang out a bit, without any particular reason? Would you pick me up from an airport tomorrow if I ask you to? Will I come to you if I have a wild business idea? Or will you come to me to brag about your recent promotion? No, we are not friends. We don't even know each other. You need to spend some time with a person for at least couple of hours a day for about half a year to become friends.
- jesuscript 4y ago
  Half the things you listed would destroy the fragile friendship. Think of ways of preserving it, however weak the bond. I’ll read your posts on HN and upvote you, how’s that, and thoughtfully reply.
  - Macha 4y ago
    If it's that fragile, then is it a friendship? It's more of an acquaintance, except on HN we don't know who you are. We probably don't know your name, so I don't even know it counts as an acquaintance, unless you're famous externally and have linked that to your HN username, or have used it as your name. And even then we know it in the same way as a roll call in a crowded lecture room or business meeting, and not as the individual. I think classic online forums did provide scope for building up social connections, but I think the Reddit-inspired social news sites, including HN, simply do not.
    - ehnto 4y ago
      I think part of the reason behind such frail friendships is that, thanks to social media, and parasocial relationships with online personalities, like YouTubers and Twitch streamers, many might feel they are participating in a social group or experiencing social situations already. The reality is that most often in the new online social world, you are a consumer of the relationship but not actually a participant. With that safety net, someone has to first accept a level of risk they don't currently need to, and they also have to meet that same risk barrier for someone else. So people are unwittingly trading more two sided, genuine social interactions, for shallow, one sided interactions.
nomdep 4y ago
I suppose it would be nice to make friends through HN, but I don't even read the usernames anymore. And even if I did, with so many comments, I'm not sure I could remember who say what
Ancalagon 4y ago
Do you really consider a collection of people you've never met and mostly never talked to/messaged to be your friends? That the only thing in common required to be friends is sharing a messaging forum? That's not even an acquaintance in my book. Friendship requires a little bit more back-and-forth. Good friends have some trust associated with them. Apologies to all the HN'ers: you're better than redditors but you're still internet strangers. Plenty of people on the internet are not ones you'd want to be friends with.
reader_x 4y ago
If I could take you all to the pub, I would, because you are fun to talk to and listen to. But I can’t. I go to the pub with other people and enjoy their company, but many of them don’t find interesting the kinds of things discussed on HN. At times, that makes me feel lonely in a crowd, Which is why I also come to HN. Yes we are friends, but if I did not also have the pub friends I would feel lonely.
mancerayder 4y ago
Nope, we're not friends. Your notion of friendship is slightly odd... But. That brings me to: Why isn't there more of a concerted attempt at local HN meetups? Ask HN, Show HN, how about Meetup HN: (some city)
h0p3 4y ago
I'll be your friend (https://philosopher.life/#Friendship https://philosopher.life/#Friendship), nomad (https://philosopher.life/#Find%20The%20Others https://philosopher.life/#Find%20The%20Others). HMU (https://philosopher.life/#Contact%20h0p3 https://philosopher.life/#Contact%20h0p3) anytime. `/salute`.

dgfitz 4y ago

I don’t consider anyone on HN a friend if that means anything.

jesuscript 4y ago
Maybe that’s the intangible the linked post is not addressing. What does friendship even mean to the people they tracked? Being able to talk to people who are willing to spend time talking back is a basis for friendship, at least in my book. Friendship doesn’t always have to be so serious.
- Viliam1234 4y ago
  For me, a friend is a person I can discuss personal topics with. On HN, the topic is given (the article we comment on), and it is usually not personal. If it happens to be personal, it is most likely not the personal topic I would like to discuss now. Also, if any of us died today, most likely no one else on HN would ever notice. That too is not exactly what I imagine as "friendship".
  - nobody9999 4y ago
    >For me, a friend is a person I can discuss personal topics with. And for me, a friend is family I get to choose for myself. Anyone else is, at best, a friendly acquaintance. I expect there are many other definitions out there as well.
conductr 4y ago
Me either but I can see how it serves the purpose of a friend and for some people it could support increased isolation

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago

There are people on HN, who I completely 100% disagree with and likely would not want to spend time with in any other setting ( and likely vice versa ). However, the best part of HN is that me being friends, or even like minded, is not mandatory for the purpose of this site ( edit: in fact, to an extent, being able to present a different or conventionally objectionable, perspective in a compelling way is more important than same value framework ). In short, only you can answer that question.

jesuscript 4y ago
But you find some of these deplorable people engaging (possibly even fun and interesting), right? Interesting how varied (imho, high) our standards are for another human being. Fun and interesting is enough for me, we don’t need to be best friends. We can be some semblance of friends. Or is that asking for too much as well? Anyways, I agree with you. The drop in friendships can’t be fucking tracked because everyone has their own idea of what it means.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  << The drop in friendships can’t be fucking tracked because everyone has their own idea of what it means. Exactly. And all this is before we even get to differences in languages and cultures. In the old country, word friend has very different connotations when compared to US equivalent. There it is basically reserved for the highest level of US version of the word. In US the world covers a whole range of social affinities. << Interesting how varied (imho, high) our standards are for another human being. This is why being a kid has its benefits. You have X? We are best friends now. As you get older, possession of item X is a very sucky proxy for a good relationship.

OrangeMonkey 4y ago

We arn't friends - at best everyone here are strangers attending a conference where there are 4-5 competing views and barely concealed contempt. That said, you f'ing matter and you deserve to be friends with people. You can do it too. Just get out, talk to people in the real world, whatever just do something different from what you are doing now. I'm rooting for you man.

paganel 4y ago
> barely concealed contempt. Maybe I'm looking at this through rose-tinted glasses, but I see that feeling as decreasing here on HN.
- OrangeMonkey 4y ago
  You may be right and maybe I am just viewing things from an opposite ideological view. @dang - any input here? Hows moderation been in 2016 vs now?

ctoth 4y ago

I'd say we are most of us members of 3-4 distinct tribes all gathering around this oasis, if I had to put words to it. 3-4 distinct tribes with obvious intermixing.

thakoppno 4y ago

I think we’re friends in a meaningful sense. My in—real-life friends live all over the world and we have a group thread. I don’t see that as too different. I remember hearing some futurist a decade or so ago say how indistinguishable real-life and online life will be eventually. At the time I couldn’t believe it but your comment synthesizes it in a way. I would be considerably more lonely, less inspired and knowledgeable without this community. That’s friendship to me.

godelski 4y ago

I think it is hard to form friendships through platforms like HN. There's no direct messaging and we often forget usernames. It is a great place for public discussions and we are friendly to one another, but I don't think we're building strong bonds. If I see a coworker on HN it doesn't make me think more or less of them tbh. Though I think sharing the articles with friends and discussing them can be an aspect that helps build friendships.

kelseyfrog 4y ago
I agree, it is hard to form friendships on HN. I've managed to meet some people here in other digital spaces and on average it's been a positive experience. But even so, having a contact form in bio doesn't typically result in many contacts.

civilized 4y ago

You will get a lot of condescension for saying this - a lot of people assuming you are naive and don't understand "real" friendship. And I have to confess, my own experience having "friends" online is that many people who seem like they might be friends, end up not being. But I do find that you can have real friends online, and it's not all that much harder or less common than having real friends in person. And the cameraderie we might have with a lot of people over HN isn't that far removed from real friendship. My standards for friend are pretty low these days - anyone who can have an interesting, respectful conversation without becoming hateful or condescending over a difference in opinions is an awfully good candidate.

pochekailov 4y ago

Would you go to a pub with me? Would you listen to me ranting about evil nimbyists preventing any form of urban development and thus blocking economic growth? Would you call me asking me to help you with an unexpected problem? Can I stop by your place just to hang out a bit, without any particular reason? Would you pick me up from an airport tomorrow if I ask you to? Will I come to you if I have a wild business idea? Or will you come to me to brag about your recent promotion? No, we are not friends. We don't even know each other. You need to spend some time with a person for at least couple of hours a day for about half a year to become friends.

jesuscript 4y ago
Half the things you listed would destroy the fragile friendship. Think of ways of preserving it, however weak the bond. I’ll read your posts on HN and upvote you, how’s that, and thoughtfully reply.
- Macha 4y ago
  If it's that fragile, then is it a friendship? It's more of an acquaintance, except on HN we don't know who you are. We probably don't know your name, so I don't even know it counts as an acquaintance, unless you're famous externally and have linked that to your HN username, or have used it as your name. And even then we know it in the same way as a roll call in a crowded lecture room or business meeting, and not as the individual. I think classic online forums did provide scope for building up social connections, but I think the Reddit-inspired social news sites, including HN, simply do not.
  - ehnto 4y ago
    I think part of the reason behind such frail friendships is that, thanks to social media, and parasocial relationships with online personalities, like YouTubers and Twitch streamers, many might feel they are participating in a social group or experiencing social situations already. The reality is that most often in the new online social world, you are a consumer of the relationship but not actually a participant. With that safety net, someone has to first accept a level of risk they don't currently need to, and they also have to meet that same risk barrier for someone else. So people are unwittingly trading more two sided, genuine social interactions, for shallow, one sided interactions.

nomdep 4y ago

I suppose it would be nice to make friends through HN, but I don't even read the usernames anymore. And even if I did, with so many comments, I'm not sure I could remember who say what

Ancalagon 4y ago

Do you really consider a collection of people you've never met and mostly never talked to/messaged to be your friends? That the only thing in common required to be friends is sharing a messaging forum? That's not even an acquaintance in my book. Friendship requires a little bit more back-and-forth. Good friends have some trust associated with them. Apologies to all the HN'ers: you're better than redditors but you're still internet strangers. Plenty of people on the internet are not ones you'd want to be friends with.

reader_x 4y ago

If I could take you all to the pub, I would, because you are fun to talk to and listen to. But I can’t. I go to the pub with other people and enjoy their company, but many of them don’t find interesting the kinds of things discussed on HN. At times, that makes me feel lonely in a crowd, Which is why I also come to HN. Yes we are friends, but if I did not also have the pub friends I would feel lonely.

mancerayder 4y ago

Nope, we're not friends. Your notion of friendship is slightly odd... But. That brings me to: Why isn't there more of a concerted attempt at local HN meetups? Ask HN, Show HN, how about Meetup HN: (some city)

h0p3 4y ago

I'll be your friend (https://philosopher.life/#Friendship https://philosopher.life/#Friendship), nomad (https://philosopher.life/#Find%20The%20Others https://philosopher.life/#Find%20The%20Others). HMU (https://philosopher.life/#Contact%20h0p3 https://philosopher.life/#Contact%20h0p3) anytime. `/salute`.