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I'm not being facetious here but I have no idea what you mean by "apple quality". I've been using Macbook Pros for a long time. In my opinion "Apple Quality" d

I'm not being facetious here but I have no idea what you mean by "apple quality". I've been using Macbook Pros for a long time. In my opinion "Apple Quality" died way back in 2013, possibly 2015. After that, they started introducing user-hostile phones, laptops, etc. The touchbar is a travesty and now you have to pay more money to have a normal experience. The feeling of the laptops and aesthetics are nice but the parts are garbage. When (not if) your mainboard finally goes out you may as well buy a new laptop. 2018 model Macbook Pros had horrendous keyboard issues that they finally were forced to issue a warranty (however, there are big caveats). Darwin is an abomination with all sorts of edges to cut yourself on. It's unix enough on the surface but the second you need to do anything really unix-y it's not there. OS X itself is a very cleverly disguised walled garden you cant break out of. Let's not even talk about the phones. Every phone just simply adds more gadgets. The operating system's only benefit is it is more "privacy first" than Android. However, in exchange for that you get the most walled of gardens. You can't even get a decent browser installed and it still sends all your data home. They are also far more fragile than androids and infinitely less serviceable. I have an iPhone from 5 years ago. I refuse to buy another one. I also will not buy an android. They're all terrible. Unless, I guess, you like handing over your entire life to a faceless corporation for some real neat-o gadgetry. The spying seems to get worse with every iteration. Apple produces garbage products. The reason companies prefer them is the consistency across models. If you want actual quality there is better for far, far cheaper.

traceroute66 4y ago
> Apple produces garbage products. That's pure Apple bashing BS. It could be refuted in so many ways, but I'll pick an easy one. Apple silicon Macbooks Pros. They have no competition. The nearest competition you can find needs to be plugged into the mains, and even then it doesn't perform as well as Apple.
- Test0129 4y ago
  I personally wont buy into macs walled garden for M1, I think a lot of technically competent people agree with me. In exchange for a superior chip I get an user-hostile experience and lock-in. Hard pass. Apple has first mover advantage. It won't be long before everyone is running M1-like chips and Apple will be back to making the same consumer nonsense they are now. Thats why I didn't mention. It's a big selling point if you want to buy a $2800 machine. I'm a professional programmer and have never needed more than an Intel mac. Maybe for designers it matters but it's just not that cool to me. I didn't even get around to mentioning the wireless mouse. The fact that I have to charge it flipped over because, as stated, charging in a standard way "ruins the aesthetic" is completely on-brand with Apple's BS. Apple bashes themselves just fine. Nothing I said was BS. By and large Apple produces inferior products to their competition and their name brand and walled garden sell the stuff for them. Apple products look fantastic, have an allure that says "I have money", and lack practical functionality. Apple products are a luxury. Identifying you're a member of a cult is the first part of breaking free of it.
  - BackBlast 4y ago
    It seems disingenuous to me to call MacOS a walled garden. It may be a cultivated garden, but there are no walls. You can go download, build, restore, or otherwise use the software you like. I used a very expensive 2019 Intel Macbook Pro, and then an M1, not even the pro line. There was a big difference, the M1 build times were half and that turned directly into better productivity.
    - traceroute66 4y ago
      > It seems disingenuous to me to call MacOS a walled garden. "Disingeneous" is polite, I'd say its BS because you can tell someone is an Apple basher when they start banging on about "walled garden". MacOS at its heart is BSD. If you download Xcode from the App store, then that installs a bunch of CLI tools as well, including make. And thus, having installed make you can .... Yes, that's right, compile your own software. Or just use brew if you don't fancy compiling stuff. You are of course, also welcome to download Go, Rust or anything else and compile stuff in those languages too. Then, whilst you're at it, you can download VMware Fusion or Parallels and run Linux or Windows or any other OS of your choice. Walled Garden ... yeah right !
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
pseudostem 4y ago
2012, it died a horrific death in 2012. 3 MBAs didn't last me more than 2 years. I still use Macs from 2007.
kcplate 4y ago
Both my iphone my MBA are now 4 years old. Both are absolutely fine and short of accidental damage I expect them to last me at least another couple of years. In all the time I have been forced to use windows laptops that were of “premium” quality, I have never ever had one last into its third year. So could it be that pre-2015 apple products were better quality? Probably. However, I don’t think we can say that current Apple products since 2015 are inferior to their android or laptop counterparts. They may be inferior to themselves, bt I think their builds are still superior to everything else.
- Volundr 4y ago
  > In all the time I have been forced to use windows laptops that were of “premium” quality, I have never ever had one last into its third year. I've heard this often and I find it baffling. I've replaced only one PC in my lifetime when it quit working. Everything else I've replaced at 5-6 years old while working fine. Dells, system 76, Lenovo's, Asus, they've all held together fine. Heck my old windows 95 Toshiba still works.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    I just retired a MacBook Pro 2008 this year that my wife has been using daily since 2015 because its battery started swelling. That device started its life as my traveling work rig in late 2008 and served me well until 2015 when I gave it to the wife as her personal device. I think the total lifespan was just over 13 years from unboxing to retirement. Hundreds of flights that device traveled with me. Had two Dells, one lasted 18 months (cracked case). One almost 3 years (broken hinge). Bought a MBA 2018 and it works and looks as well as the day it was unboxed despite tons of time traveling.
DerekBickerton 4y ago
> I'm not being facetious here but I have no idea what you mean by "apple quality" OP said this: 'Android phones still feel like cheap plastic to me'. That's the difference. They break easily and a single drop can impair your phone, unlike an iPhone which can survive a nuclear blast. iPhones are the new Nokias.
- wink 4y ago
  That's the first time I hear this. Still "dropped iPhone, shattered/chipped" feels much more common than "dropped Android, need new phone" and that's with more Android users in my immediate circle. Did they make them sturdier again after the 11ish?
pandaman 4y ago
I had a 2011 Macbook Air and it was the only device in my household that had been struggling to connect to Wi-Fi and stay connected. And I am old enough to remember the iPhone "You're holding it wrong!" 4 from 2010.
thiht 4y ago
> If you want actual quality there is better for far, far cheaper Where?

traceroute66 4y ago

> Apple produces garbage products. That's pure Apple bashing BS. It could be refuted in so many ways, but I'll pick an easy one. Apple silicon Macbooks Pros. They have no competition. The nearest competition you can find needs to be plugged into the mains, and even then it doesn't perform as well as Apple.

Test0129 4y ago
I personally wont buy into macs walled garden for M1, I think a lot of technically competent people agree with me. In exchange for a superior chip I get an user-hostile experience and lock-in. Hard pass. Apple has first mover advantage. It won't be long before everyone is running M1-like chips and Apple will be back to making the same consumer nonsense they are now. Thats why I didn't mention. It's a big selling point if you want to buy a $2800 machine. I'm a professional programmer and have never needed more than an Intel mac. Maybe for designers it matters but it's just not that cool to me. I didn't even get around to mentioning the wireless mouse. The fact that I have to charge it flipped over because, as stated, charging in a standard way "ruins the aesthetic" is completely on-brand with Apple's BS. Apple bashes themselves just fine. Nothing I said was BS. By and large Apple produces inferior products to their competition and their name brand and walled garden sell the stuff for them. Apple products look fantastic, have an allure that says "I have money", and lack practical functionality. Apple products are a luxury. Identifying you're a member of a cult is the first part of breaking free of it.
- BackBlast 4y ago
  It seems disingenuous to me to call MacOS a walled garden. It may be a cultivated garden, but there are no walls. You can go download, build, restore, or otherwise use the software you like. I used a very expensive 2019 Intel Macbook Pro, and then an M1, not even the pro line. There was a big difference, the M1 build times were half and that turned directly into better productivity.
  - traceroute66 4y ago
    > It seems disingenuous to me to call MacOS a walled garden. "Disingeneous" is polite, I'd say its BS because you can tell someone is an Apple basher when they start banging on about "walled garden". MacOS at its heart is BSD. If you download Xcode from the App store, then that installs a bunch of CLI tools as well, including make. And thus, having installed make you can .... Yes, that's right, compile your own software. Or just use brew if you don't fancy compiling stuff. You are of course, also welcome to download Go, Rust or anything else and compile stuff in those languages too. Then, whilst you're at it, you can download VMware Fusion or Parallels and run Linux or Windows or any other OS of your choice. Walled Garden ... yeah right !
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

pseudostem 4y ago

2012, it died a horrific death in 2012. 3 MBAs didn't last me more than 2 years. I still use Macs from 2007.

kcplate 4y ago

Both my iphone my MBA are now 4 years old. Both are absolutely fine and short of accidental damage I expect them to last me at least another couple of years. In all the time I have been forced to use windows laptops that were of “premium” quality, I have never ever had one last into its third year. So could it be that pre-2015 apple products were better quality? Probably. However, I don’t think we can say that current Apple products since 2015 are inferior to their android or laptop counterparts. They may be inferior to themselves, bt I think their builds are still superior to everything else.

Volundr 4y ago
> In all the time I have been forced to use windows laptops that were of “premium” quality, I have never ever had one last into its third year. I've heard this often and I find it baffling. I've replaced only one PC in my lifetime when it quit working. Everything else I've replaced at 5-6 years old while working fine. Dells, system 76, Lenovo's, Asus, they've all held together fine. Heck my old windows 95 Toshiba still works.
- kcplate 4y ago
  I just retired a MacBook Pro 2008 this year that my wife has been using daily since 2015 because its battery started swelling. That device started its life as my traveling work rig in late 2008 and served me well until 2015 when I gave it to the wife as her personal device. I think the total lifespan was just over 13 years from unboxing to retirement. Hundreds of flights that device traveled with me. Had two Dells, one lasted 18 months (cracked case). One almost 3 years (broken hinge). Bought a MBA 2018 and it works and looks as well as the day it was unboxed despite tons of time traveling.

DerekBickerton 4y ago

> I'm not being facetious here but I have no idea what you mean by "apple quality" OP said this: 'Android phones still feel like cheap plastic to me'. That's the difference. They break easily and a single drop can impair your phone, unlike an iPhone which can survive a nuclear blast. iPhones are the new Nokias.

wink 4y ago
That's the first time I hear this. Still "dropped iPhone, shattered/chipped" feels much more common than "dropped Android, need new phone" and that's with more Android users in my immediate circle. Did they make them sturdier again after the 11ish?

pandaman 4y ago

I had a 2011 Macbook Air and it was the only device in my household that had been struggling to connect to Wi-Fi and stay connected. And I am old enough to remember the iPhone "You're holding it wrong!" 4 from 2010.

thiht 4y ago

> If you want actual quality there is better for far, far cheaper Where?