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I’m the person leading the project to make sure that people have fewer bad experiences with Stripe. I’m not sure what is driving the uptick in posts on the subj
by johnhaddock 4y ago
I’m the person leading the project to make sure that people have fewer bad experiences with Stripe. I’m not sure what is driving the uptick in posts on the subject to HN in particular (obviously we pay attention to broader online discussion in addition to monitoring our support systems, though we know it creates an incentive for people to publicize their situation).
On the topic of Stripe and these kinds of incidents more broadly, there’s a lot to say, but here are a few pieces of context that are probably relevant:
- We are a giant distributed bounty system for people to find interesting and scalable ways to defraud us.
- We’ve seen significant upticks in certain kinds of fraud over the past couple of months. When businesses default, Stripe takes on the loss. It’s worth noting that certain kinds of fraud, like card testing, can also have significant collateral costs for legitimate Stripe businesses, and our systems and processes are not only to protect Stripe itself.
- We are far from oblivious to the harm that mistakes in our systems can cause. (I interact with a lot of these cases personally.) One of my highest priorities is creating better appeals flows for when we’re wrong.
- We’ve shipped 7 substantial improvements just in the last 10 days that should meaningfully reduce the occurrence of false positives.
- Publicly-described facts of specific cases don’t always match the actual facts. Stripe is sometimes just wrong. (We made some mistakes that I feel bad about in one recent case and we ended up bringing the company’s founders to an all hands last week to make sure we learned as much as possible.) But users do also sometimes publicly misrepresent what’s going on. We’re also restricted by privacy rules to not share specifics in those cases.
- Stripe works with millions of businesses and we see all kinds of “rare” failure modes fairly frequently. (Disputes between staff at a business, business impersonation, businesses that start legitimate and go bad, and so on.)
- I’m working on a post to share some of our broader philosophy + policy changes that I hope to publish before the end of this year. In that, I’m also hoping we can share some relevant metrics. If HNers have any suggestions for things that might be useful to see covered (though obviously certain things can’t be publicly disclosed), feel free to suggest them.
Ultimately, we work hard to be worthy of the trust of businesses across the internet, and my personal mandate (supported by many others, from our cofounders down) is to find effective new ways of making mistakes less likely. “Uniformly good support at scale, in a highly adversarial environment, with very financially-motivated actors” is not easy, but I’m pretty confident that we can make a lot of progress.
It goes without saying we're working on a review of OP situation. I’m happy to take general questions as well. You can also always reach me directly at jhaddock@stripe.com.
- WheatMillington 4y ago>I’m the person leading the effort to make sure that people have fewer bad experiences with Stripe. No offence, but you're doing a bad job.
- unethical_ban 4y agoThe person posts an essay on their perspective and that’s what you have to say?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tannedNerd 4y agoHe’s not wrong. The length of the reply doesn’t make it good or worthy when most of it is wishy washy we’ll do better in the future we promise without any concrete steps to make that happen or metrics to prove so. In fact I would say he’s doing a bad job by the amount of stripe fucked me posts here recently.
- luckylion 4y agoYou don't hear about the positive outcomes of support cases, but you'll hear a lot about those that don't work out the way they're supposed to, and you'll also hear a lot about those where someone feels wronged even though they've misbehaved. The complainer can also misrepresent the case, while Stripe cannot disclose how they see it. Making any assumptions about service quality on that base is not wise.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ZephyrBlu 4y agoYou’re asking for a specific, concrete solution to an unsolved problem. If it was just about executing I’m sure they would have done that by now. What you call “wishy washy” is what I read as him laying out the problems on a high level.