4 ms·

My experience may be illustrative of why you should let some employees WFH. Out of the Navy, I got hired as a programming intern assigned to work on the databas

My experience may be illustrative of why you should let some employees WFH. Out of the Navy, I got hired as a programming intern assigned to work on the database for "Mouse Works" for the Macintosh, which became "Microsoft Works" after Microsoft decided to publish it. I wrote the database and more. I also managed all three releases from 1984 to 1993 as the build engineer. I did this all while working from home in Santa Cruz. Our small team all worked from home because the owner didn't want to spend money on an office. We got together every few weeks to compare notes and integrate our work. After Works, I went to work for companies that required me to be in the office, which was the rule for the time. I found I couldn't perform in an office because there were too many distractions. I need peace and quiet to think, and never found that in the many office settings I worked at. I produced some passable work, but nothing like I had been able to do at home. If your employees tell you they need to work at home to produce their best work, believe them.

bkuehl 4y ago
From my experience so far with pandemic WFH that turned into permanent WFH for our company, if the employee was generally good or performed pretty well they are performing even better working remotely. However, if the employee was just average or needed some oversight, productivity is not very good remotely. Fortunately, I have a solid team (at least for now) so I'm seeing the benefits and things are going very well overall. However, a colleague's team's overall productivity is abysmal. Btw, we also don't have long hours. Rarely work over 40.
- KerrAvon 4y ago
  This might be is an indictment of your colleague’s manager. Not that the team individual contributors don’t have agency, but it’s the managers job to corral them and make sure they’re performing. This can certainly be done even if the manager is remote; it’s been done for decades at multiple companies. Managers have a strong role in shaping the team’s ability to perform and they need to use it. You’ve got to talk to your IC’s. If they’re really incapable of performing, get them help. You can manage remote workers! It’s a thing that can be done.
  - orwin 4y ago
    True. We tried to eliminate management with scrum and agile which helps with accountability, but in my experience, it doesn't help when the dev is overwhelmed, outside his area of competency (the second causing the first, which was my situation 8 months ago), not engaged (too good/not interested) or simply not good enough for the mission. Those are for me the main reasons why a dev would not be productive. Yes those situations are easier to detect at the office, but a good manager would detect those at home too.
bravetraveler 4y ago
I appreciate this comment for what may not be an obvious reason A gripe I've had with this discourse, WFH or not, was obviously inspired by the pandemic. The concept has been going on forever. It's something I've noticed because I've had at least three conversations at work where I've had to defend my status... "I was WFH before the pandemic, I'm not coming in just because it's 'over'" There's an angle to this whole thing where it seems the powers that be are trying to renege, and I'm not here for it
- mwattsun 4y ago
  Good point. To me this isn't a pandemic related issue at all, but an issue of a programmer's right to control his or her work environment. I think managers should ask themselves this question: Why do think traditional public libraries ask people to be quiet and not speak or make noise? The trap I fell into after I stared working in an office is working from home on the weekends to do the important parts that required concentration. I was giving them free hours but I didn't see it that way because I was salaried. I was giving up my free time so I could perform the job. I think there needs to be programmer's Bill of Rights (I can't speak to other professions) At the time I couldn't articulate the problems I had with an office but now realize they include: - I'm sensitive to 60 HZ fluorescent lights that have a low flicker and hum. I get headaches - I have chemical sensitivities. Many of the chemicals in offices make me feel sick. - I'm hypervigilant due to trauma suffered in the military. When people are walking around in my field of vision I automatically stop what I'm doing to evaluate their threat level. With the rise of mass shootings in society, I imagine this would be even worse for me. - I drag in the afternoon, which I can fix with a 30 minute nap at home. It was not possible to do this in an office. - Sometimes I get really stuck on a problem and get very frustrated. I found the best way for me to fix this was to go surfing, no matter what time of day. I'd usually come back from the surf session with a fix for the problem. Again, not possible working 9 to 5 in an office. There's more, but you get the idea Edit: A post supporting some of my claims and more has appeared on HN "Toxic workplaces can harm your physical and mental health, Surgeon General says" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33298690 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33298690
- mech422 4y ago
  yeah - I've been basically full time WFH for 20 years now... That cat is NOT going back in the bag.

bkuehl 4y ago

From my experience so far with pandemic WFH that turned into permanent WFH for our company, if the employee was generally good or performed pretty well they are performing even better working remotely. However, if the employee was just average or needed some oversight, productivity is not very good remotely. Fortunately, I have a solid team (at least for now) so I'm seeing the benefits and things are going very well overall. However, a colleague's team's overall productivity is abysmal. Btw, we also don't have long hours. Rarely work over 40.

KerrAvon 4y ago
This might be is an indictment of your colleague’s manager. Not that the team individual contributors don’t have agency, but it’s the managers job to corral them and make sure they’re performing. This can certainly be done even if the manager is remote; it’s been done for decades at multiple companies. Managers have a strong role in shaping the team’s ability to perform and they need to use it. You’ve got to talk to your IC’s. If they’re really incapable of performing, get them help. You can manage remote workers! It’s a thing that can be done.
- orwin 4y ago
  True. We tried to eliminate management with scrum and agile which helps with accountability, but in my experience, it doesn't help when the dev is overwhelmed, outside his area of competency (the second causing the first, which was my situation 8 months ago), not engaged (too good/not interested) or simply not good enough for the mission. Those are for me the main reasons why a dev would not be productive. Yes those situations are easier to detect at the office, but a good manager would detect those at home too.

bravetraveler 4y ago

I appreciate this comment for what may not be an obvious reason A gripe I've had with this discourse, WFH or not, was obviously inspired by the pandemic. The concept has been going on forever. It's something I've noticed because I've had at least three conversations at work where I've had to defend my status... "I was WFH before the pandemic, I'm not coming in just because it's 'over'" There's an angle to this whole thing where it seems the powers that be are trying to renege, and I'm not here for it

mwattsun 4y ago
Good point. To me this isn't a pandemic related issue at all, but an issue of a programmer's right to control his or her work environment. I think managers should ask themselves this question: Why do think traditional public libraries ask people to be quiet and not speak or make noise? The trap I fell into after I stared working in an office is working from home on the weekends to do the important parts that required concentration. I was giving them free hours but I didn't see it that way because I was salaried. I was giving up my free time so I could perform the job. I think there needs to be programmer's Bill of Rights (I can't speak to other professions) At the time I couldn't articulate the problems I had with an office but now realize they include: - I'm sensitive to 60 HZ fluorescent lights that have a low flicker and hum. I get headaches - I have chemical sensitivities. Many of the chemicals in offices make me feel sick. - I'm hypervigilant due to trauma suffered in the military. When people are walking around in my field of vision I automatically stop what I'm doing to evaluate their threat level. With the rise of mass shootings in society, I imagine this would be even worse for me. - I drag in the afternoon, which I can fix with a 30 minute nap at home. It was not possible to do this in an office. - Sometimes I get really stuck on a problem and get very frustrated. I found the best way for me to fix this was to go surfing, no matter what time of day. I'd usually come back from the surf session with a fix for the problem. Again, not possible working 9 to 5 in an office. There's more, but you get the idea Edit: A post supporting some of my claims and more has appeared on HN "Toxic workplaces can harm your physical and mental health, Surgeon General says" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33298690 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33298690
mech422 4y ago
yeah - I've been basically full time WFH for 20 years now... That cat is NOT going back in the bag.