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Well yeah, it doesn't hurt that the video itself extremely cheap... The point of the law is that it should be the cost of doing business once you reach a certa

Well yeah, it doesn't hurt that the video itself extremely cheap... The point of the law is that it should be the cost of doing business once you reach a certain size (in this case 500 users). No one is making you subtitle your class presentation. In fact I went to confirm the 500 user rule, the law was actually updated specifically to carve out extensive exceptions based on revenue. A website needs to make 30k a year, which is not a small amount of traffic: https://illuminea.com/israeli-website-accessibility-guidelines/ https://illuminea.com/israeli-website-accessibility-guidelin... At the end of the day OP is making a paid learning course of technical material and still whinging about needed to provide subtitles, yet that's exactly the kind of "pain" these laws should enforce. There are predatory lawyers looking to sue people for having .01" too tall of a lip at their restaurant's door or something knowing full well they'll lose in court but want to settle... that's where these laws can go wrong. Not basic subtitles. Honestly it feels like they wanted to launch a new paid service and got a free angle to share it from.

bombcar 4y ago
Yeah, this case seems to be a business trying to get around subtitling the “free classes” because they make money on the paid classes. The loophole of only doing a particular class under 500 won’t work for them I suspect as the business would still be making the money (if it wasn’t this wouldn’t currently apply). > 4) A business that makes 100,000 – 300,000 NIS per year has an exemption until 2020 and has to make an accessibility declaration and make at least the contact form accessible. This probably is the exemption that expired.
Dylan16807 4y ago
$30k a year is a notable amount of money, sure. But in terms of paying for non-english subtitling? A single hour of video could eat 1-2% of that! I can easily see a situation where it's an enormous and disproportionate burden. Imagine a twitch streamer that does 20 hours a week and makes $4000 a month. If they had to pay $5 a minute for a subtitling service, which is lower than what I'm seeing for many languages, they'd go bankrupt within the first week.
- BoorishBears 4y ago
  The guy lives in Israel, and is making classes in a language he speaks, he's not going to get hoodwinked into paying $3000 an hour captions. Just because there are offers for $3000 an hour subtitles to businesses with more money than sense doesn't mean he couldn't post this job on one of hundreds of translation markets that would this at thousandths of the cost you quoted. - And twitch streamer does not have to submit to this. Literally the preface to the exemptions: > Websites providing a public service, such as utilities, education, health, must have accessible websites. It's not a long article, but apparently you couldn't be bothered to even skim the one section explaining the exemptions. But now before you go weaving an new intricate example of how oppressive it is to ask public services to be accessible, let me save you some trouble. I understand this is Hacker News where I am sure you'd gladly spend days coming up with every contrarian corner case to basic affordances for the disabled in existence than accept, maybe just maybe, you were wrong based off your initial assessment of a situation. Fortunately I don't have that problem, so I'll very enthusiastically leave it at that, feel free to believe what you will about providing basic subtitles for technical content.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    > The guy lives in Israel, and is making classes in a language he speaks, he's not going to get hoodwinked into paying $3000 an hour captions. What do you think is a reasonable price? Why is every company I find wrong? It's not like you can hire an assistant that can work on it for many hours for a quarter of $30k/year. And yeah I'm assuming he won't do it himself, which I think is reasonable. Service prices are fair here. > thousandths of the cost you quoted. Thousandths? So they can transcribe an hour of audio by hand for under a dollar? Be reasonable. Though I think you did the math wrong, I was citing $300, and that's for a good few hours of labor to get everything written down, cleaned up, and synced. If there's a way to do it with just a computer then ignore everything I said, but I thought the point here was that tech doesn't work well enough on hebrew. > It's not a long article, but apparently you couldn't be bothered to even skim the one section explaining the exemptions. I didn't click the link with exemptions because I was just giving an example of video content. Sorry? It doesn't invalidate my entire point. And what if those twitch streams were educational? > I understand this is Hacker News where I am sure you'd gladly spend days coming up with every contrarian corner case to basic affordances for the disabled in existence than accept, maybe just maybe, you were wrong based off your initial assessment of a situation. I admit that just fine. But if you want to prove the "maybe" you need to give me a real citation on cost that shows it's affordable.

bombcar 4y ago

Yeah, this case seems to be a business trying to get around subtitling the “free classes” because they make money on the paid classes. The loophole of only doing a particular class under 500 won’t work for them I suspect as the business would still be making the money (if it wasn’t this wouldn’t currently apply). > 4) A business that makes 100,000 – 300,000 NIS per year has an exemption until 2020 and has to make an accessibility declaration and make at least the contact form accessible. This probably is the exemption that expired.

Dylan16807 4y ago

$30k a year is a notable amount of money, sure. But in terms of paying for non-english subtitling? A single hour of video could eat 1-2% of that! I can easily see a situation where it's an enormous and disproportionate burden. Imagine a twitch streamer that does 20 hours a week and makes $4000 a month. If they had to pay $5 a minute for a subtitling service, which is lower than what I'm seeing for many languages, they'd go bankrupt within the first week.

BoorishBears 4y ago
The guy lives in Israel, and is making classes in a language he speaks, he's not going to get hoodwinked into paying $3000 an hour captions. Just because there are offers for $3000 an hour subtitles to businesses with more money than sense doesn't mean he couldn't post this job on one of hundreds of translation markets that would this at thousandths of the cost you quoted. - And twitch streamer does not have to submit to this. Literally the preface to the exemptions: > Websites providing a public service, such as utilities, education, health, must have accessible websites. It's not a long article, but apparently you couldn't be bothered to even skim the one section explaining the exemptions. But now before you go weaving an new intricate example of how oppressive it is to ask public services to be accessible, let me save you some trouble. I understand this is Hacker News where I am sure you'd gladly spend days coming up with every contrarian corner case to basic affordances for the disabled in existence than accept, maybe just maybe, you were wrong based off your initial assessment of a situation. Fortunately I don't have that problem, so I'll very enthusiastically leave it at that, feel free to believe what you will about providing basic subtitles for technical content.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  > The guy lives in Israel, and is making classes in a language he speaks, he's not going to get hoodwinked into paying $3000 an hour captions. What do you think is a reasonable price? Why is every company I find wrong? It's not like you can hire an assistant that can work on it for many hours for a quarter of $30k/year. And yeah I'm assuming he won't do it himself, which I think is reasonable. Service prices are fair here. > thousandths of the cost you quoted. Thousandths? So they can transcribe an hour of audio by hand for under a dollar? Be reasonable. Though I think you did the math wrong, I was citing $300, and that's for a good few hours of labor to get everything written down, cleaned up, and synced. If there's a way to do it with just a computer then ignore everything I said, but I thought the point here was that tech doesn't work well enough on hebrew. > It's not a long article, but apparently you couldn't be bothered to even skim the one section explaining the exemptions. I didn't click the link with exemptions because I was just giving an example of video content. Sorry? It doesn't invalidate my entire point. And what if those twitch streams were educational? > I understand this is Hacker News where I am sure you'd gladly spend days coming up with every contrarian corner case to basic affordances for the disabled in existence than accept, maybe just maybe, you were wrong based off your initial assessment of a situation. I admit that just fine. But if you want to prove the "maybe" you need to give me a real citation on cost that shows it's affordable.