6 ms·

How far along is running a regular linux desktop os with working ui on an m1? Recently there were articles that Linus had been using an M1 running some version

by rnk 4y ago

How far along is running a regular linux desktop os with working ui on an m1? Recently there were articles that Linus had been using an M1 running some version of linux but there were some aspects of the system that weren't working well, believe it was the ui, maybe he was even in text mode.

delroth 4y ago
See https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support . The laptops are very usable as a daily driver on Linux already, but not 100% is supported and depending on your specific requirements some of the missing hardware support might be a deal breaker. You can very much run a normal Linux desktop with a working UI, that's been working for months, it just doesn't have hardware rendering acceleration (but the CPU is fast enough to make this tolerable).
- rnk 4y ago
  Thanks. My use case is normal linux use, but I need to occasionally run x86 code in a linux vm. So (1) running linux, (2) running a different arch vm, (3) some gui apps. I have already been reading the state of running x86 vms on macos on an m1, it is slow but my friends claim usable. Add it on an early linux impl on native m1, then x86 vm. Why am I torturing myself? I want to get back to having a great fanless system like I used to have on a google pixel laptop, where they had underclocked x86 but running without a fan was great.
  - DenseComet 4y ago
    Macos Ventura will let you run x86 code on an arm linux vm using a linux version of rosetta 2, which should fix the speed issues. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/running_intel_binaries_in_linux_vms_with_rosetta https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...
    - olliej 4y ago
      What makes rosetta 2 superior to box86/64 or qemu-static-...?
      - runeks 4y ago
        It's at least an order of magnitude faster due to not using software emulation
  - wtallis 4y ago
    If you need to run x86 Linux software on Apple Silicon, the better option going forward will be to run an ARM Linux VM and use Apple's Rosetta for Linux to run x86 software on the ARM Linux, rather than having the kernel also running under emulation. Since Rosetta for Linux was coerced to run on non-Apple ARM Linux systems almost as soon as it shipped in developer preview builds of the upcoming macOS, it would not be surprising if Asahi ends up making use of it outside of a VM context (though that may not comply with the license).
    - mkurz 4y ago
      Can you provide links to what you write hear? Thanks!
      - wtallis 4y ago
        Previous HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990
      - AndroidKitKat 4y ago
        Sibling comment, but this has links to Apple documentation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33290808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33290808 And this seems to be able to get it running: https://github.com/diddledani/macOS-Linux-VM-with-Rosetta https://github.com/diddledani/macOS-Linux-VM-with-Rosetta I haven't tested this because I'm at work, but I'll verify it when I get home!
- criddell 4y ago
  Is the battery life when running Asahi Linux close to what it is with macOS?
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    No, aside from anything else the missing GPU driver means that the system is running at ~60% all-core CPU even at idle (rendering a desktop). IIRC, it still lasts around 4 hours. We'll have a better idea of where they're at once the GPU driver lands.
    - GeekyBear 4y ago
      That's not the word from the developer lead. >That whole "optimized for macOS" thing is a myth. Heck, we don't even have CPU deep idle support yet and people are reporting 7-10h of battery runtime on Linux. With software rendering running a composited desktop. No GPU. https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1498923099169132545 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1498923099169132545 Also, from a couple of days ago, they got basic suspend to work. >WiFi S3 sleep works, which means s2idle suspend works! https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696
      - nicoburns 4y ago
        7-10 hours is good, but that's still around half of what these machines can do on macOS. And it's just common sense that battery life with software rendering won't be as good when hardware acceleration is enabled.
        tbrock 4y ago
        And better than any windows laptop on the market with the same performance profile.
        smoldesu 4y ago
        Is it still as fast when 60% of it's CPU time is being utilized to render a Retina desktop?
robear 4y ago
Support matrix - https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support You can run a GUI but it would currently run on the CPU not GPU. Reports are that the UI is quite snappy running on the CPU. The basic Asahi install is Arch with KDE. Linus apparently put Fedora on his travel laptop. What Linus was complaining about is Chrome support, which is coming or maybe is already available - https://twitter.com/asahilinux/status/1507263017146552326?lang=en https://twitter.com/asahilinux/status/1507263017146552326?la...
david_allison 4y ago
Besides Asahi, I've done dev work on arm64 Ubuntu running under Parallels (GUI works fine).
JLCarveth 4y ago
Not Linux per se, but there was a post recently about OpenBSD support for M2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33274679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33274679
- trenchgun 4y ago
  It is based on Asahi.
  - anthk 4y ago
    OpenBSD it's ISC licensed and is not Linux.
- anthk 4y ago
  That's OpenBSD -stable, the -current edition, that's it, "rolling" "release", already had it.
mkurz 4y ago
I am using Arch/Asahi Linux on a new MacBook Pro M1 Pro since July as daily driver. I mainly use IntelliJ IDEA for Java and Scala development in KDE (which is installed by default if you choose the UI install). For IntelliJ you have to download the aarch64 JBR yourself and set it in a config file. However upgcoming version 2022.3 will support aarch64/arm OS out of the box... So far it works very very good. Rendering is done by the CPU, but the machine is so fast it's not really an issue (at least compared to my old Thinkpad). However can't wait for the GPU driver to arrive, looking at the posted tweet., I guess that should happen within the next few weeks. For Zoom calls (which I don't have so often) I still have to switch to macOS right now, but AFAIK USB 3 support should work also soon, so I can use my Elgato Facecam soon hopefully. I can listen music/watch youtube with my Pixel Buds Pro via Bluetooth, no problem. Suspending/closing the lid doesn't freeze the userspace yet, but this is already fixed and will arive soon: https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696 In the last 4 months I only heard the fan once or twice, when opening dozens tabs that run aggressive adds (animations), but with the upcoming GPU driver that will not be an issue anymore. And by "hear" I mean like "what is this quite noice...? or that's the macbook fans..." - when I start my old Thinkpad, it's like a airplane in the runway preparing to start. Battery life is quite good actually, this week I was taking my Macbook out for lunch and working in a coffee for like 2,5 - 3 hours, doing Java/Scala development (but not much compiling actually, just hacking in the IDE) afterwards I had like 69% left. Also it barely gets hot - it does a bit sometimes in the ads scenario above, but most of the time it stays cool. It does get a bit hot when charging (which is normal according to other users). Personally, after a long time Thinkpad and Dell XPS user, I am so happy about my Macbook, which is my first, they will have to try hard to win me back. And I am saying this as non Apple user (never had an iPad, MacBook, iPhone, whatever). Asahi + Macbook Pro is really really great and IMHO, even in it's early stage and IMHO for Linux enthusiastics will be the killer device in the upcoming years. BTW: I bought the Macbook in April and gave macOS a serious chance (after being a pure Linux user since 15 years). Tried to set it up for my needs... But I gave up in July, I just can't handle it, for me it's like a toy. It's good for people (like my wife) who browse the internet and do some office work, but for software devs that need to get shit done fast and like to have an open system its... kind of crap (just my pesonal opionion).
- 4y ago
whywouldyoudo 4y ago
> How far along is running a regular linux desktop os with working ui on an m1? The total number of people who will be doing this will number in the hundreds. Not to diminish what an interesting achievement it is.

by rnk 4y ago

delroth 4y ago

See https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support . The laptops are very usable as a daily driver on Linux already, but not 100% is supported and depending on your specific requirements some of the missing hardware support might be a deal breaker. You can very much run a normal Linux desktop with a working UI, that's been working for months, it just doesn't have hardware rendering acceleration (but the CPU is fast enough to make this tolerable).

rnk 4y ago
Thanks. My use case is normal linux use, but I need to occasionally run x86 code in a linux vm. So (1) running linux, (2) running a different arch vm, (3) some gui apps. I have already been reading the state of running x86 vms on macos on an m1, it is slow but my friends claim usable. Add it on an early linux impl on native m1, then x86 vm. Why am I torturing myself? I want to get back to having a great fanless system like I used to have on a google pixel laptop, where they had underclocked x86 but running without a fan was great.
- DenseComet 4y ago
  Macos Ventura will let you run x86 code on an arm linux vm using a linux version of rosetta 2, which should fix the speed issues. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/running_intel_binaries_in_linux_vms_with_rosetta https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...
  - olliej 4y ago
    What makes rosetta 2 superior to box86/64 or qemu-static-...?
    - runeks 4y ago
      It's at least an order of magnitude faster due to not using software emulation
- wtallis 4y ago
  If you need to run x86 Linux software on Apple Silicon, the better option going forward will be to run an ARM Linux VM and use Apple's Rosetta for Linux to run x86 software on the ARM Linux, rather than having the kernel also running under emulation. Since Rosetta for Linux was coerced to run on non-Apple ARM Linux systems almost as soon as it shipped in developer preview builds of the upcoming macOS, it would not be surprising if Asahi ends up making use of it outside of a VM context (though that may not comply with the license).
  - mkurz 4y ago
    Can you provide links to what you write hear? Thanks!
    - wtallis 4y ago
      Previous HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990
    - AndroidKitKat 4y ago
      Sibling comment, but this has links to Apple documentation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33290808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33290808 And this seems to be able to get it running: https://github.com/diddledani/macOS-Linux-VM-with-Rosetta https://github.com/diddledani/macOS-Linux-VM-with-Rosetta I haven't tested this because I'm at work, but I'll verify it when I get home!
criddell 4y ago
Is the battery life when running Asahi Linux close to what it is with macOS?
- nicoburns 4y ago
  No, aside from anything else the missing GPU driver means that the system is running at ~60% all-core CPU even at idle (rendering a desktop). IIRC, it still lasts around 4 hours. We'll have a better idea of where they're at once the GPU driver lands.
  - GeekyBear 4y ago
    That's not the word from the developer lead. >That whole "optimized for macOS" thing is a myth. Heck, we don't even have CPU deep idle support yet and people are reporting 7-10h of battery runtime on Linux. With software rendering running a composited desktop. No GPU. https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1498923099169132545 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1498923099169132545 Also, from a couple of days ago, they got basic suspend to work. >WiFi S3 sleep works, which means s2idle suspend works! https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696
    - nicoburns 4y ago
      7-10 hours is good, but that's still around half of what these machines can do on macOS. And it's just common sense that battery life with software rendering won't be as good when hardware acceleration is enabled.
      - tbrock 4y ago
        And better than any windows laptop on the market with the same performance profile.
        smoldesu 4y ago
        Is it still as fast when 60% of it's CPU time is being utilized to render a Retina desktop?

robear 4y ago

Support matrix - https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support You can run a GUI but it would currently run on the CPU not GPU. Reports are that the UI is quite snappy running on the CPU. The basic Asahi install is Arch with KDE. Linus apparently put Fedora on his travel laptop. What Linus was complaining about is Chrome support, which is coming or maybe is already available - https://twitter.com/asahilinux/status/1507263017146552326?lang=en https://twitter.com/asahilinux/status/1507263017146552326?la...

david_allison 4y ago

Besides Asahi, I've done dev work on arm64 Ubuntu running under Parallels (GUI works fine).

JLCarveth 4y ago

Not Linux per se, but there was a post recently about OpenBSD support for M2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33274679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33274679

trenchgun 4y ago
It is based on Asahi.
- anthk 4y ago
  OpenBSD it's ISC licensed and is not Linux.
anthk 4y ago
That's OpenBSD -stable, the -current edition, that's it, "rolling" "release", already had it.

mkurz 4y ago

I am using Arch/Asahi Linux on a new MacBook Pro M1 Pro since July as daily driver. I mainly use IntelliJ IDEA for Java and Scala development in KDE (which is installed by default if you choose the UI install). For IntelliJ you have to download the aarch64 JBR yourself and set it in a config file. However upgcoming version 2022.3 will support aarch64/arm OS out of the box... So far it works very very good. Rendering is done by the CPU, but the machine is so fast it's not really an issue (at least compared to my old Thinkpad). However can't wait for the GPU driver to arrive, looking at the posted tweet., I guess that should happen within the next few weeks. For Zoom calls (which I don't have so often) I still have to switch to macOS right now, but AFAIK USB 3 support should work also soon, so I can use my Elgato Facecam soon hopefully. I can listen music/watch youtube with my Pixel Buds Pro via Bluetooth, no problem. Suspending/closing the lid doesn't freeze the userspace yet, but this is already fixed and will arive soon: https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696 In the last 4 months I only heard the fan once or twice, when opening dozens tabs that run aggressive adds (animations), but with the upcoming GPU driver that will not be an issue anymore. And by "hear" I mean like "what is this quite noice...? or that's the macbook fans..." - when I start my old Thinkpad, it's like a airplane in the runway preparing to start. Battery life is quite good actually, this week I was taking my Macbook out for lunch and working in a coffee for like 2,5 - 3 hours, doing Java/Scala development (but not much compiling actually, just hacking in the IDE) afterwards I had like 69% left. Also it barely gets hot - it does a bit sometimes in the ads scenario above, but most of the time it stays cool. It does get a bit hot when charging (which is normal according to other users). Personally, after a long time Thinkpad and Dell XPS user, I am so happy about my Macbook, which is my first, they will have to try hard to win me back. And I am saying this as non Apple user (never had an iPad, MacBook, iPhone, whatever). Asahi + Macbook Pro is really really great and IMHO, even in it's early stage and IMHO for Linux enthusiastics will be the killer device in the upcoming years. BTW: I bought the Macbook in April and gave macOS a serious chance (after being a pure Linux user since 15 years). Tried to set it up for my needs... But I gave up in July, I just can't handle it, for me it's like a toy. It's good for people (like my wife) who browse the internet and do some office work, but for software devs that need to get shit done fast and like to have an open system its... kind of crap (just my pesonal opionion).

4y ago

whywouldyoudo 4y ago

> How far along is running a regular linux desktop os with working ui on an m1? The total number of people who will be doing this will number in the hundreds. Not to diminish what an interesting achievement it is.