6 ms·

A system, but not AirBNBs system.

by nrmitchi 4y ago

stickfigure 4y ago
It's unreasonable to expect AirBNB to enforce your HOA rules. That's a private contract between you and your neighbors.
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  Basically even if it's not expressly forbidden it's an obvious misuse in pretty much any multi family dwelling. If your lease doesn't forbid you from keeping cows indoors it doesn't mean your not an asshole for keeping cows in your apartment.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    As long as it's not damaging anything, why should I care about someone having cows? Damage is obviously a problem and not the issue at hand.
    - steveBK123 4y ago
      "As long as it's not damaging anything, why should I care about someone having cows?" Noise, smells, sanitation, etc
      - Dylan16807 4y ago
        If your floor isn't being damaged by cow, it's probably not very loud, is it? Same for whether it's sanitary enough to not be causing any damage. And realistically I'm picturing roughly one cow would fit.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  It's reasonable for AirBnB to verify that their hosts are in compliance with the law. I am a landlord: I let a single house, to a family. New regulations came in on 1st September, requiring the property to be registered. I already had a valid gas safety certificate, expiring in 2 months, and an electrical safety certificate good for two more years. Registration also required an energy performance certificate, which I had. But collecting all these documents, along with the precise dimensions of each room in the house, including the kitchen and bathroom, has been a terrible hassle. I'm a good landlord; I don't mess with the rent mid-term, I fix things quickly, aand I don't bother my tenants. They are good tenants; they are German, and Germans know how rental is supposed to work. I live in a flat, and my neighbour is an AirBnB, whose owner lives in Bavaria, and whose "host" lives in another town. It seems to be a nice clean apartment; but it's illegal, because local regs ban holiday lets in homes that are suitable for residential use. AirBnB don't give a shit. I notified the local authority, and they're trying to close it down. The "hosts" have appealed, so this saga has been going on for a year. The problems, for me, are that I share the front-door of the block with complete strangers (where my post is delivered); the guests don't understand UK recycling rules, and dump mixed waste in my recycling bin (resulting in non-collection); and sometimes they have noisy parties. More generally, most of my neighbours seem to be investment properties; there are no kids around here, and I only know a handful of neighbours. AirBnB has sucked the life out of this neighbourhood.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    > local regs ban holiday lets in homes that are suitable for residential use. Is that the same as banning holiday lets in homes entirely? What does a house or proper apartment that's not suitable for residential use look like?
    - denton-scratch 4y ago
      This is a University town. It's stuffed with student accomodation, a.k.a. "homes in multiple occupation". Yes, I think it's roughly like what you said: the Council doesn't want holiday homes in this town. Housing is expensive here, because in addition to two universites, it has a cluster of big hospitals. But we still need inexpensive housing for the multitude of low-paid wokers those institutions require. Tourists are a boon for some places, but this town would work better with less tourists (few of the tourists buy anything, and most of them don't stay overnight anyway - they just want a selfie in front of an old building). [Edit] Not exactly; an old-fashioned couch-surfing isn't ruled out. Nor is am apartment let for less than 90 days a year. But anything that could be an attempt to get around student-housing regulations is probably banned, because that's heavily regulated.
  - stickfigure 4y ago
    HOA rules aren't law. But it's also unreasonable to expect AirBNB to keep up with the uncountable legal jurisdictions of the world. Every locality - down to the city block - could have different rules. If your neighbor is violating the law, that's your neighbor's fault. If you want to do something about it, you have the power.
    - steveBK123 4y ago
      Why is it that when a broker shows an apartment they can be expected & liable for showing illegal units/terms/etc, but when Big Tech apps which replace their jobs at scale do it.. "it's hard" so "they shouldn't be expected to"? It really isn't that hard, and they don't even try because it would reduce their revenue. We can argue if they need to enforce block by block HOA & condos/coops rules.. but they aren't even trying at more macro levels like state/town laws. I live part of the year in a large summer town with ~100k residents. It has clear, well known rental laws that have been on the books longer than AirBnB existed. For example the minimum lease term is 2 weeks. Yet, of course, if I go to AirBnB and search in town, there are 100 homes being offered by the day. Meanwhile if I go to any of the brokerages to be shown rentals, they only offer month/summer/year length rentals.. because its the law.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  No I think it is. A broker leasing a unit on an owners behalf would immediately confirm the lease is in compliance. Why does a technology platform get to automate & scale in a less compliant manner? Yeah, I'm sure the code is kind of hard to write, that doesn't mean you can violate laws & contracts, because the code is challenging. We have so many examples of these platforms disrupting locals & human jobs to automate & scale globally, while ignoring laws, regulations, etc. Just because its easier to make money assisting illegality doesn't mean it should be legal to do so. Look at all the work Banks have to do on AML/KYC/etc to make sure organized crime, narcotics, terrorism and sanctioned nationals money does not get to use the USD financial system. It's not perfect of course. And it's hard for sure, theres entire organizations at every banks with 100s or 1000s of employees responsible. Why does Silicon Valley always get a free pass?
- smachiz 4y ago
  I'm not sure that's true... 99% of dwellings in, say, NYC are Condos, Coops or Rentals - and all buildings have management agents (or acting as your own as an individual for a building) on file with the NYC Department of Buildings. Requiring a letter explicitly allowing a listing from the managing agent on record prior to publishing the listing wouldn't be particularly onerous. Of course their listings would drop dramatically since most aren't by the book, but feature not a bug?
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    Agreed. Exactly my point. These tech platform marketplaces are willing to do lots of AI/ML hocus-pocus & throw bodies at things like targeted ads, onboarding new suppliers (drivers/landlords), whatever helps their KPIs, etc.. but not on following the law/rules. That is because it would reduce sales, knowing that they are implicitly allowing illegalities on their market places.

A system, but not AirBNBs system.

stickfigure 4y ago

It's unreasonable to expect AirBNB to enforce your HOA rules. That's a private contract between you and your neighbors.

michaelmrose 4y ago
Basically even if it's not expressly forbidden it's an obvious misuse in pretty much any multi family dwelling. If your lease doesn't forbid you from keeping cows indoors it doesn't mean your not an asshole for keeping cows in your apartment.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  As long as it's not damaging anything, why should I care about someone having cows? Damage is obviously a problem and not the issue at hand.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    "As long as it's not damaging anything, why should I care about someone having cows?" Noise, smells, sanitation, etc
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      If your floor isn't being damaged by cow, it's probably not very loud, is it? Same for whether it's sanitary enough to not be causing any damage. And realistically I'm picturing roughly one cow would fit.
denton-scratch 4y ago
It's reasonable for AirBnB to verify that their hosts are in compliance with the law. I am a landlord: I let a single house, to a family. New regulations came in on 1st September, requiring the property to be registered. I already had a valid gas safety certificate, expiring in 2 months, and an electrical safety certificate good for two more years. Registration also required an energy performance certificate, which I had. But collecting all these documents, along with the precise dimensions of each room in the house, including the kitchen and bathroom, has been a terrible hassle. I'm a good landlord; I don't mess with the rent mid-term, I fix things quickly, aand I don't bother my tenants. They are good tenants; they are German, and Germans know how rental is supposed to work. I live in a flat, and my neighbour is an AirBnB, whose owner lives in Bavaria, and whose "host" lives in another town. It seems to be a nice clean apartment; but it's illegal, because local regs ban holiday lets in homes that are suitable for residential use. AirBnB don't give a shit. I notified the local authority, and they're trying to close it down. The "hosts" have appealed, so this saga has been going on for a year. The problems, for me, are that I share the front-door of the block with complete strangers (where my post is delivered); the guests don't understand UK recycling rules, and dump mixed waste in my recycling bin (resulting in non-collection); and sometimes they have noisy parties. More generally, most of my neighbours seem to be investment properties; there are no kids around here, and I only know a handful of neighbours. AirBnB has sucked the life out of this neighbourhood.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  > local regs ban holiday lets in homes that are suitable for residential use. Is that the same as banning holiday lets in homes entirely? What does a house or proper apartment that's not suitable for residential use look like?
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    This is a University town. It's stuffed with student accomodation, a.k.a. "homes in multiple occupation". Yes, I think it's roughly like what you said: the Council doesn't want holiday homes in this town. Housing is expensive here, because in addition to two universites, it has a cluster of big hospitals. But we still need inexpensive housing for the multitude of low-paid wokers those institutions require. Tourists are a boon for some places, but this town would work better with less tourists (few of the tourists buy anything, and most of them don't stay overnight anyway - they just want a selfie in front of an old building). [Edit] Not exactly; an old-fashioned couch-surfing isn't ruled out. Nor is am apartment let for less than 90 days a year. But anything that could be an attempt to get around student-housing regulations is probably banned, because that's heavily regulated.
- stickfigure 4y ago
  HOA rules aren't law. But it's also unreasonable to expect AirBNB to keep up with the uncountable legal jurisdictions of the world. Every locality - down to the city block - could have different rules. If your neighbor is violating the law, that's your neighbor's fault. If you want to do something about it, you have the power.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    Why is it that when a broker shows an apartment they can be expected & liable for showing illegal units/terms/etc, but when Big Tech apps which replace their jobs at scale do it.. "it's hard" so "they shouldn't be expected to"? It really isn't that hard, and they don't even try because it would reduce their revenue. We can argue if they need to enforce block by block HOA & condos/coops rules.. but they aren't even trying at more macro levels like state/town laws. I live part of the year in a large summer town with ~100k residents. It has clear, well known rental laws that have been on the books longer than AirBnB existed. For example the minimum lease term is 2 weeks. Yet, of course, if I go to AirBnB and search in town, there are 100 homes being offered by the day. Meanwhile if I go to any of the brokerages to be shown rentals, they only offer month/summer/year length rentals.. because its the law.
steveBK123 4y ago
No I think it is. A broker leasing a unit on an owners behalf would immediately confirm the lease is in compliance. Why does a technology platform get to automate & scale in a less compliant manner? Yeah, I'm sure the code is kind of hard to write, that doesn't mean you can violate laws & contracts, because the code is challenging. We have so many examples of these platforms disrupting locals & human jobs to automate & scale globally, while ignoring laws, regulations, etc. Just because its easier to make money assisting illegality doesn't mean it should be legal to do so. Look at all the work Banks have to do on AML/KYC/etc to make sure organized crime, narcotics, terrorism and sanctioned nationals money does not get to use the USD financial system. It's not perfect of course. And it's hard for sure, theres entire organizations at every banks with 100s or 1000s of employees responsible. Why does Silicon Valley always get a free pass?
smachiz 4y ago
I'm not sure that's true... 99% of dwellings in, say, NYC are Condos, Coops or Rentals - and all buildings have management agents (or acting as your own as an individual for a building) on file with the NYC Department of Buildings. Requiring a letter explicitly allowing a listing from the managing agent on record prior to publishing the listing wouldn't be particularly onerous. Of course their listings would drop dramatically since most aren't by the book, but feature not a bug?
- steveBK123 4y ago
  Agreed. Exactly my point. These tech platform marketplaces are willing to do lots of AI/ML hocus-pocus & throw bodies at things like targeted ads, onboarding new suppliers (drivers/landlords), whatever helps their KPIs, etc.. but not on following the law/rules. That is because it would reduce sales, knowing that they are implicitly allowing illegalities on their market places.