16 ms·

Linux M1 GPU driver passes 99% of the dEQP-GLES2 compliance tests

545 points by tpush 4y ago

Pet_Ant 4y ago
From https://chromium.googlesource.com/angle/angle/+/main/doc/dEQP.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/angle/angle/+/main/doc/dEQ... it looks like drawElements (dEQP) is: > drawElements (dEQP) is a very robust and comprehensive set of open-source tests for GLES2, GLES3+ and EGL. They provide a huge net of coverage for almost every GL API feature. So this is some CSS Acid test for OpenGL Embedded Systems (GLES).
- AbacusAvenger 4y ago
  It's more than that, it's the official conformance tests: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/VK-GL-CTS/blob/main/external/openglcts/README.md https://github.com/KhronosGroup/VK-GL-CTS/blob/main/external...
- lynguist 4y ago
  It was unnecessary to mention Acid. Acid was meant to test cherrypicked unimplemented features, not to test coverage.
rnk 4y ago
How far along is running a regular linux desktop os with working ui on an m1? Recently there were articles that Linus had been using an M1 running some version of linux but there were some aspects of the system that weren't working well, believe it was the ui, maybe he was even in text mode.
- delroth 4y ago
  See https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support . The laptops are very usable as a daily driver on Linux already, but not 100% is supported and depending on your specific requirements some of the missing hardware support might be a deal breaker. You can very much run a normal Linux desktop with a working UI, that's been working for months, it just doesn't have hardware rendering acceleration (but the CPU is fast enough to make this tolerable).
  - rnk 4y ago
    Thanks. My use case is normal linux use, but I need to occasionally run x86 code in a linux vm. So (1) running linux, (2) running a different arch vm, (3) some gui apps. I have already been reading the state of running x86 vms on macos on an m1, it is slow but my friends claim usable. Add it on an early linux impl on native m1, then x86 vm. Why am I torturing myself? I want to get back to having a great fanless system like I used to have on a google pixel laptop, where they had underclocked x86 but running without a fan was great.
    - DenseComet 4y ago
      Macos Ventura will let you run x86 code on an arm linux vm using a linux version of rosetta 2, which should fix the speed issues. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/running_intel_binaries_in_linux_vms_with_rosetta https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...
      - olliej 4y ago
        What makes rosetta 2 superior to box86/64 or qemu-static-...?
        runeks 4y ago
        It's at least an order of magnitude faster due to not using software emulation
    - wtallis 4y ago
      If you need to run x86 Linux software on Apple Silicon, the better option going forward will be to run an ARM Linux VM and use Apple's Rosetta for Linux to run x86 software on the ARM Linux, rather than having the kernel also running under emulation. Since Rosetta for Linux was coerced to run on non-Apple ARM Linux systems almost as soon as it shipped in developer preview builds of the upcoming macOS, it would not be surprising if Asahi ends up making use of it outside of a VM context (though that may not comply with the license).
- robear 4y ago
  Support matrix - https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support You can run a GUI but it would currently run on the CPU not GPU. Reports are that the UI is quite snappy running on the CPU. The basic Asahi install is Arch with KDE. Linus apparently put Fedora on his travel laptop. What Linus was complaining about is Chrome support, which is coming or maybe is already available - https://twitter.com/asahilinux/status/1507263017146552326?lang=en https://twitter.com/asahilinux/status/1507263017146552326?la...
- david_allison 4y ago
  Besides Asahi, I've done dev work on arm64 Ubuntu running under Parallels (GUI works fine).
- JLCarveth 4y ago
  Not Linux per se, but there was a post recently about OpenBSD support for M2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33274679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33274679
  - trenchgun 4y ago
    It is based on Asahi.
    - anthk 4y ago
      OpenBSD it's ISC licensed and is not Linux.
  - anthk 4y ago
    That's OpenBSD -stable, the -current edition, that's it, "rolling" "release", already had it.
- mkurz 4y ago
  I am using Arch/Asahi Linux on a new MacBook Pro M1 Pro since July as daily driver. I mainly use IntelliJ IDEA for Java and Scala development in KDE (which is installed by default if you choose the UI install). For IntelliJ you have to download the aarch64 JBR yourself and set it in a config file. However upgcoming version 2022.3 will support aarch64/arm OS out of the box... So far it works very very good. Rendering is done by the CPU, but the machine is so fast it's not really an issue (at least compared to my old Thinkpad). However can't wait for the GPU driver to arrive, looking at the posted tweet., I guess that should happen within the next few weeks. For Zoom calls (which I don't have so often) I still have to switch to macOS right now, but AFAIK USB 3 support should work also soon, so I can use my Elgato Facecam soon hopefully. I can listen music/watch youtube with my Pixel Buds Pro via Bluetooth, no problem. Suspending/closing the lid doesn't freeze the userspace yet, but this is already fixed and will arive soon: https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696 In the last 4 months I only heard the fan once or twice, when opening dozens tabs that run aggressive adds (animations), but with the upcoming GPU driver that will not be an issue anymore. And by "hear" I mean like "what is this quite noice...? or that's the macbook fans..." - when I start my old Thinkpad, it's like a airplane in the runway preparing to start. Battery life is quite good actually, this week I was taking my Macbook out for lunch and working in a coffee for like 2,5 - 3 hours, doing Java/Scala development (but not much compiling actually, just hacking in the IDE) afterwards I had like 69% left. Also it barely gets hot - it does a bit sometimes in the ads scenario above, but most of the time it stays cool. It does get a bit hot when charging (which is normal according to other users). Personally, after a long time Thinkpad and Dell XPS user, I am so happy about my Macbook, which is my first, they will have to try hard to win me back. And I am saying this as non Apple user (never had an iPad, MacBook, iPhone, whatever). Asahi + Macbook Pro is really really great and IMHO, even in it's early stage and IMHO for Linux enthusiastics will be the killer device in the upcoming years. BTW: I bought the Macbook in April and gave macOS a serious chance (after being a pure Linux user since 15 years). Tried to set it up for my needs... But I gave up in July, I just can't handle it, for me it's like a toy. It's good for people (like my wife) who browse the internet and do some office work, but for software devs that need to get shit done fast and like to have an open system its... kind of crap (just my pesonal opionion).
  - 4y ago
- whywouldyoudo 4y ago
  > How far along is running a regular linux desktop os with working ui on an m1? The total number of people who will be doing this will number in the hundreds. Not to diminish what an interesting achievement it is.
rowanG077 4y ago
Impressive! Is this the same test suite that was already ran on OSX using Alyssa's user space driver but now on Linux using the Rust kernel driver? If so that seems to be shaping up REALLY well!
yewenjie 4y ago
Can somebody explain how much of the work on M1 GPU can be reused for M2?
- 3836293648 4y ago
  The vast majority of it. She and Alyssa discussed it during their talk at the Xorg conference.
  - unpopularopp 4y ago
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
_fizz_buzz_ 4y ago
Do they get help from Apple? Is there documentation of the M1? This is such a massive achievement!
- leidenfrost 4y ago
  The only help is from the bootloader side and by not having Apple actively obscuring things. Conpared to other reverse engineering projects, the M1 macs are not a moving target and they dont have to encounter new lockdowns every time, unlike other reverse engineering scenarios lile the cracking scene or emulators
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    > not having Apple actively obscuring things. This seems quite a big deal for Apple - and said as a long time Apple user.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      It's such a minor contribution that I always get a good laugh watching people praise Apple for this. Microsoft, for all the evil they do, contributes millions of SLOC to open source along with generous funding for various non-selfish projects. Facebook, for all the societal ills they cause, also develops multiple projects in public even when it would make more sense to withhold them. Apple, for all their exploitation of the developer community, flips a switch on the Macbook that enables parity with traditional x86 BIOS functionality, and people start partying in the street crying "this is for us!" And since then, it's been radio silence from Cupertino HQ. Nobody ever confirmed why they did this. Was it serendipity or loving compassion? Nobody can say for sure, but if it's the latter then Apple seems to be very conservative with their blessings upon the community.
      - stormbrew 4y ago
        Apple contributes quite a lot to open source (WebKit, llvm, clang in particular but there are other high volume projects), though not so much in the Linux kernel. There are some patches by Apple in Linux though and they've made quite a lot of strides in expediting postbacks internally over the last few years. I left Apple partly over their poor oss policies, but even I won't sign off on the idea that they don't do any at all.
singhrac 4y ago
Also another drive by question, but I was surprised that the Apple TVs have A-series chips. Has anyone worked with Asahi on the A-series? I assume the performance isn’t great but curious about the technical challenges.
- galad87 4y ago
  The A-series don't support booting from a third party OS, unless someone found a security issue that can be exploited to make it boot something else it won't be possible to run Linux on it.
  - GeekyBear 4y ago
    If you pick up an older device running on an A11 SOC or earlier, they have an unpatchable vulnerability in the bootloader code, so those devices could be repurposed with worrying about a locked bootloader. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/09/developer-of-checkm8-explains-why-idevice-jailbreak-exploit-is-a-game-changer/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/09/devel...
    - galad87 4y ago
      I know, but my mind automatically thought about the latest which contains an A15 for some reason :|
- dlivingston 4y ago
  AFAIK, the latest A-series chip to boot Linux is the A7/A8 (so, iPhone 7-ish): https://konradybcio.pl/linuxona7/ https://konradybcio.pl/linuxona7/
  - my123 4y ago
    A7-A11 via checkm8.
syntaxing 4y ago
Does this mean there’s a decent chance to get this working in UTM? How much is this stuff transferrable to QEMU?
- NobodyNada 4y ago
  I'm not an expert on this, but my understanding is that GPU acceleration in virtual machines uses a "passthrough" method where the graphics calls on the guest system are simply translated to public APIs on the host system, and go through macOS's GPU drivers as usual. VMWare Fusion has had this capability on M1 since about a month or two ago. This project is designed to provide an open-source replacement for macOS's GPU drivers in order to boot Linux bare-metal, so it solves an entirely different problem. Maybe some of the knowledge will carry over -- especially the userspace side of things Alyssa was working on -- but as far as I know this is not automatically transferrable.
  - fulafel 4y ago
    GPU passthrough is the opposite, there the hypervisor exposes the HW to a guest and the guest runs the bare-metalndriver.
- viraptor 4y ago
  For utm the interesting tech is venus / virgl (https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2021/11/26/venus-on-qemu-enabling-new-virtual-vulkan-driver/ https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2021/11/26/venu...) Like the other comments say this work is not really applicable to qemu.
2bitencryption 4y ago
* clean-room M1 GPU driver created by (seemingly) one dev in a matter of months * an excellent POC of Rust drivers on Linux * the dev live-streamed almost every minute of development * the dev is a virtual anime girl So far I'm LOVING 2022.
- modshatereality 4y ago
  Well that's bad news for anyone hoping this driver would ever be upstreamed, linux requires real identity for participation.
- gpm 4y ago
  > by (seemingly) one dev I think Alyssa Rosenzweig and Asahi Lina both did pretty substantial work on this?
  - dottedmag 4y ago
    GPU driver is mostly by Alyssa, DCP (display controller) is mostly by Lina.
  - kelnos 4y ago
    I believe Rosenzweig was responsible for the user-space bits; this post is about the kernel driver, which (as I understand it) was done entirely by Asahi Lina. (Both of them deserve a ton of praise, of course.)
    - nicoburns 4y ago
      I'm pretty sure this post is about both bits. I don't think you can pass that test suite without both bits.
      - entropicdrifter 4y ago
        It was passing that test suite when being run as of their XDC talk 10 days ago using only Alyssa's bit. This update shows that when using both bits combined it now passes with the same level of conformance. At least that's my understanding of it. You're right in that this is about both bits working together, but the person you're replying to is right in the sense that this particular update is showing specifically an update in Lina's bit.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
schaefer 4y ago
Sorry for the off topic question, but can a person dual boot Mac OS and a native Linux install on the M1???
- thrtythreeforty 4y ago
  Yes. That's what happens by default when you run the Asahi installer
- rvz 4y ago
  The correct straightforward answer is, not yet. (The installer is neither reliable or stable) This is why everyone else (non-developers) are waiting for a reliable release first rather than trying it out, something goes wrong and another person will find out and say: 'it's not ready for general use.'
  - torpv12 4y ago
    Your first sentence is not accurate as, by default, the Asahi installer sets up a separate partition for dual-boot purposes. The Asahi developers have even recommended keeping this configuration in order to receive future firmware updates from Apple.
- GeekyBear 4y ago
  Apple designed a new bootloader that enforces security settings per partition and not per machine, so not only can you run a third party OS, doing so does not degrade the security when you boot the Mac partition.
  - glial 4y ago
    I had to read that three times to make sure I was reading right. That's very...open...of them.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      Yes, it's very un-Apple of them, which some are taking as Apple being accepting and welcoming of other OSes, in particular Linux, on Macbooks. Which is an optimistic take, IMO, even if not unfounded.
imwillofficial 4y ago
I can't wait till we get a Linux iPad Pro
- speedgoose 4y ago
  I’m afraid most of the Linux classic applications will not be designed with multitouch inputs in mind. It may improve eventually, with newer software being created.
  - noveltyaccount 4y ago
    But with a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard, could be a compelling form factor
    - 988747 4y ago
      If you count size of all the devices is not that compelling anymore.
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    It's open, we will add the gestures.
- sofixa 4y ago
  iPads don't have the open bootloader of the Macbooks that would allow that.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    That's an obstruction, but usually someone eventually finds a way around that part. But we never get a usable OS for the hardware even if we can run arbitrary code. We have been able to run linux on older iphones for a while now but I'm not sure it's ever been a useful thing to do.
- fsflover 4y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25172883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25172883
lamontcg 4y ago
Are we any closer to eGPU support for apple silicon?
- mulderc 4y ago
  I am skeptical that we will ever see that.
  - fragmede 4y ago
    given that thunderbolt 3 is basically PCI, the only far fetched part would be having to write a 3rd party driver for the card. Given the high end businesses that exist in this world to work with video on the (eg Davinci on the iPad which was recently on the front page), combined with a demand for absolute highest end GPU performance, I think there's a business case for it. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to be open source though.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Considering how little commercial support there is for basic GPU functionality on regular Linux, it's wishful thinking to expect a mysterious stranger to write this code for you. Especially for black-box hardware.
      - anthk 4y ago
        eGPU-s work on Linux. https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2021-12-05-nixos-egpu.html https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2021-12-05-nixos-egpu.html
        smoldesu 4y ago
        I don't think this is generic eGPU support. AFAIK, Nvidia's render offloading is baked into their driver. Not sure if it has an AMD/Intel equivalent.
      - fragmede 4y ago
        The mysterious strangers I have in mind are Blackmagic Design, who write Davinci Resolve, for both Mac and Linux, and have the economic incentive to. They made $576 million in revenue last year so it's not that far fetched.
THENATHE 4y ago
How likely is this to make some kind of stride in the macOS gaming world? Perhaps some kind of "headless" Linux VM that functions similar to parallels or wine that can essentially then run a proton layer to bring macOS up to par with Linux gaming. Can someone with more knowledge than me explain if that is feasible in the coming months/years?
- sofixa 4y ago
  I don't think that's at all the goal or even vague direction of the Asahi Linux project. It's to replace macOS, not to run as a VM within it. It's already possible to do what you want, with Parallels and any modern arm64 Linux distro, as long as the games are compiled for arm64 / you're willing to take the performance hit of emulation.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Not really macos gaming but it could be a bit thing for macbook gaming. My only laptop is a macbook and its powerful enough to run many of the games I play but they only run on windows/linux.
- whywouldyoudo 4y ago
  > How likely is this to make some kind of stride in the macOS gaming world? It doesn't make any strides unfortunately. > Perhaps some kind of "headless" Linux VM Linux narrowly supports the Steam Deck's goals. It doesn't make sense to use on a device like a Mac. > Can someone with more knowledge than me explain if that is feasible in the coming months/years? An end user is best served by Parallels. Overall, it doesn't make sense to run Windows-only games on a Mac.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  You might see a few games like Diablo 2 or DOOM running, but modern games are almost totally out of the question. The biggest roadblock is getting a complete Vulkan driver, which is at least a few years off. That would allow for DXVK to run, which enables the majority of Proton titles. And then there's the issue of the stack itself. It's hard enough getting Wine and DXVK to run on hardware designed to run Windows/DirectX respectively, but running it through Rosetta/Box86, on Asahi, using half-finished video drivers, is probably not great for stability. Just my $0.02. Edit: I thought you were talking about Asahi gaming. The state of Proton on MacOS is hopeless (Valve devs abandoned it after the Catalina announcement), but you can definitely run it in a VM if you're so-inclined. Wouldn't necessarily be any faster than using Windows in a VM, but it's still an option.
mechanical_bear 4y ago
Awesome work, glad to see such progress. Why is this person using such a weird voice modulation? Or are they using a text to voice to engine? It makes it difficult to understand.
- dheera 4y ago
  I'd do that if I posted videos online, I hate hearing my voice.
- jamiek88 4y ago
  Well our best emulator writer in decades killed themselves over harassment for being non binary via kiwi farms murderers (not the right word but nor is simply troll) so why risk the attention if you don’t want it? It’s tough out there in the culture wars. Rest in peace Near you magnificent person.
  - mechanical_bear 4y ago
    I understand the sentiment, but if anything this draws more attention.
  - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
- kevincox 4y ago
  Because they want to. I agree that it makes the videos hard to watch for me, but it's their choice to use and and my choice if I want to watch.
jl6 4y ago
This seems like a remarkable achievement for proprietary hardware. Doesn’t this sort of thing take years for the open Nvidia drivers?
- fulafel 4y ago
  Here's the Freedreno story: https://lwn.net/Articles/638908/ https://lwn.net/Articles/638908/ > So in mid-2012 he decided to do something about it. He was working for TI at the time, so PowerVR-based GPUs (as used by TI) were off-limits. He found some hardware that had an Adreno 220 and started to reverse engineer it. He began work on a Gallium driver in November 2012. By early 2013, he had most of the "normal stuff" working. He could run GNOME Shell and some games on the hardware. So it's been done before, but of course Freedreno's Rob Clark is undoubtedly exceptionally good as well. You have to wonder if the M1 situation would be different if he had been working for another company... (M1 GPU is PowerVR descendant and there hasn't been a open source driver for that lineage historically) For me it's a bit surprising that there are not more people working on it, the M1 having been out for 2 years already and this having wider appeal than the Freedreno initial users audience. But, maybe the 1 person way is better, since the Nouveau history seems to be people coming and going and work progressing in fits and starts: https://lwn.net/Articles/269558/ https://lwn.net/Articles/269558/ (Also the nouveau people were first to start, so they cleared way and paid a lot of dues saved by subsequent projects) edit: also nouveau history is somewhat chronicled in the early newsletters starting from the early 2006 days: https://people.freedesktop.org/~mslusarz/nouveau-wiki-dump/NouveauCompanion_1.html https://people.freedesktop.org/~mslusarz/nouveau-wiki-dump/N...
  - fomine3 4y ago
    Latest nouveau story https://lwn.net/Articles/910343/ https://lwn.net/Articles/910343/

545 points by tpush 4y ago

From https://chromium.googlesource.com/angle/angle/+/main/doc/dEQP.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/angle/angle/+/main/doc/dEQ... it looks like drawElements (dEQP) is: > drawElements (dEQP) is a very robust and comprehensive set of open-source tests for GLES2, GLES3+ and EGL. They provide a huge net of coverage for almost every GL API feature. So this is some CSS Acid test for OpenGL Embedded Systems (GLES).

AbacusAvenger 4y ago
It's more than that, it's the official conformance tests: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/VK-GL-CTS/blob/main/external/openglcts/README.md https://github.com/KhronosGroup/VK-GL-CTS/blob/main/external...
lynguist 4y ago
It was unnecessary to mention Acid. Acid was meant to test cherrypicked unimplemented features, not to test coverage.

rnk 4y ago

How far along is running a regular linux desktop os with working ui on an m1? Recently there were articles that Linus had been using an M1 running some version of linux but there were some aspects of the system that weren't working well, believe it was the ui, maybe he was even in text mode.

delroth 4y ago
See https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support . The laptops are very usable as a daily driver on Linux already, but not 100% is supported and depending on your specific requirements some of the missing hardware support might be a deal breaker. You can very much run a normal Linux desktop with a working UI, that's been working for months, it just doesn't have hardware rendering acceleration (but the CPU is fast enough to make this tolerable).
- rnk 4y ago
  Thanks. My use case is normal linux use, but I need to occasionally run x86 code in a linux vm. So (1) running linux, (2) running a different arch vm, (3) some gui apps. I have already been reading the state of running x86 vms on macos on an m1, it is slow but my friends claim usable. Add it on an early linux impl on native m1, then x86 vm. Why am I torturing myself? I want to get back to having a great fanless system like I used to have on a google pixel laptop, where they had underclocked x86 but running without a fan was great.
  - DenseComet 4y ago
    Macos Ventura will let you run x86 code on an arm linux vm using a linux version of rosetta 2, which should fix the speed issues. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/running_intel_binaries_in_linux_vms_with_rosetta https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...
    - olliej 4y ago
      What makes rosetta 2 superior to box86/64 or qemu-static-...?
      - runeks 4y ago
        It's at least an order of magnitude faster due to not using software emulation
  - wtallis 4y ago
    If you need to run x86 Linux software on Apple Silicon, the better option going forward will be to run an ARM Linux VM and use Apple's Rosetta for Linux to run x86 software on the ARM Linux, rather than having the kernel also running under emulation. Since Rosetta for Linux was coerced to run on non-Apple ARM Linux systems almost as soon as it shipped in developer preview builds of the upcoming macOS, it would not be surprising if Asahi ends up making use of it outside of a VM context (though that may not comply with the license).
robear 4y ago
Support matrix - https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support You can run a GUI but it would currently run on the CPU not GPU. Reports are that the UI is quite snappy running on the CPU. The basic Asahi install is Arch with KDE. Linus apparently put Fedora on his travel laptop. What Linus was complaining about is Chrome support, which is coming or maybe is already available - https://twitter.com/asahilinux/status/1507263017146552326?lang=en https://twitter.com/asahilinux/status/1507263017146552326?la...
david_allison 4y ago
Besides Asahi, I've done dev work on arm64 Ubuntu running under Parallels (GUI works fine).
JLCarveth 4y ago
Not Linux per se, but there was a post recently about OpenBSD support for M2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33274679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33274679
- trenchgun 4y ago
  It is based on Asahi.
  - anthk 4y ago
    OpenBSD it's ISC licensed and is not Linux.
- anthk 4y ago
  That's OpenBSD -stable, the -current edition, that's it, "rolling" "release", already had it.
mkurz 4y ago
I am using Arch/Asahi Linux on a new MacBook Pro M1 Pro since July as daily driver. I mainly use IntelliJ IDEA for Java and Scala development in KDE (which is installed by default if you choose the UI install). For IntelliJ you have to download the aarch64 JBR yourself and set it in a config file. However upgcoming version 2022.3 will support aarch64/arm OS out of the box... So far it works very very good. Rendering is done by the CPU, but the machine is so fast it's not really an issue (at least compared to my old Thinkpad). However can't wait for the GPU driver to arrive, looking at the posted tweet., I guess that should happen within the next few weeks. For Zoom calls (which I don't have so often) I still have to switch to macOS right now, but AFAIK USB 3 support should work also soon, so I can use my Elgato Facecam soon hopefully. I can listen music/watch youtube with my Pixel Buds Pro via Bluetooth, no problem. Suspending/closing the lid doesn't freeze the userspace yet, but this is already fixed and will arive soon: https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696 In the last 4 months I only heard the fan once or twice, when opening dozens tabs that run aggressive adds (animations), but with the upcoming GPU driver that will not be an issue anymore. And by "hear" I mean like "what is this quite noice...? or that's the macbook fans..." - when I start my old Thinkpad, it's like a airplane in the runway preparing to start. Battery life is quite good actually, this week I was taking my Macbook out for lunch and working in a coffee for like 2,5 - 3 hours, doing Java/Scala development (but not much compiling actually, just hacking in the IDE) afterwards I had like 69% left. Also it barely gets hot - it does a bit sometimes in the ads scenario above, but most of the time it stays cool. It does get a bit hot when charging (which is normal according to other users). Personally, after a long time Thinkpad and Dell XPS user, I am so happy about my Macbook, which is my first, they will have to try hard to win me back. And I am saying this as non Apple user (never had an iPad, MacBook, iPhone, whatever). Asahi + Macbook Pro is really really great and IMHO, even in it's early stage and IMHO for Linux enthusiastics will be the killer device in the upcoming years. BTW: I bought the Macbook in April and gave macOS a serious chance (after being a pure Linux user since 15 years). Tried to set it up for my needs... But I gave up in July, I just can't handle it, for me it's like a toy. It's good for people (like my wife) who browse the internet and do some office work, but for software devs that need to get shit done fast and like to have an open system its... kind of crap (just my pesonal opionion).
- 4y ago
whywouldyoudo 4y ago
> How far along is running a regular linux desktop os with working ui on an m1? The total number of people who will be doing this will number in the hundreds. Not to diminish what an interesting achievement it is.

rowanG077 4y ago

Impressive! Is this the same test suite that was already ran on OSX using Alyssa's user space driver but now on Linux using the Rust kernel driver? If so that seems to be shaping up REALLY well!

yewenjie 4y ago

Can somebody explain how much of the work on M1 GPU can be reused for M2?

3836293648 4y ago
The vast majority of it. She and Alyssa discussed it during their talk at the Xorg conference.
- unpopularopp 4y ago
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

_fizz_buzz_ 4y ago

Do they get help from Apple? Is there documentation of the M1? This is such a massive achievement!

leidenfrost 4y ago
The only help is from the bootloader side and by not having Apple actively obscuring things. Conpared to other reverse engineering projects, the M1 macs are not a moving target and they dont have to encounter new lockdowns every time, unlike other reverse engineering scenarios lile the cracking scene or emulators
- lostlogin 4y ago
  > not having Apple actively obscuring things. This seems quite a big deal for Apple - and said as a long time Apple user.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    It's such a minor contribution that I always get a good laugh watching people praise Apple for this. Microsoft, for all the evil they do, contributes millions of SLOC to open source along with generous funding for various non-selfish projects. Facebook, for all the societal ills they cause, also develops multiple projects in public even when it would make more sense to withhold them. Apple, for all their exploitation of the developer community, flips a switch on the Macbook that enables parity with traditional x86 BIOS functionality, and people start partying in the street crying "this is for us!" And since then, it's been radio silence from Cupertino HQ. Nobody ever confirmed why they did this. Was it serendipity or loving compassion? Nobody can say for sure, but if it's the latter then Apple seems to be very conservative with their blessings upon the community.
    - stormbrew 4y ago
      Apple contributes quite a lot to open source (WebKit, llvm, clang in particular but there are other high volume projects), though not so much in the Linux kernel. There are some patches by Apple in Linux though and they've made quite a lot of strides in expediting postbacks internally over the last few years. I left Apple partly over their poor oss policies, but even I won't sign off on the idea that they don't do any at all.

singhrac 4y ago

Also another drive by question, but I was surprised that the Apple TVs have A-series chips. Has anyone worked with Asahi on the A-series? I assume the performance isn’t great but curious about the technical challenges.

galad87 4y ago
The A-series don't support booting from a third party OS, unless someone found a security issue that can be exploited to make it boot something else it won't be possible to run Linux on it.
- GeekyBear 4y ago
  If you pick up an older device running on an A11 SOC or earlier, they have an unpatchable vulnerability in the bootloader code, so those devices could be repurposed with worrying about a locked bootloader. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/09/developer-of-checkm8-explains-why-idevice-jailbreak-exploit-is-a-game-changer/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/09/devel...
  - galad87 4y ago
    I know, but my mind automatically thought about the latest which contains an A15 for some reason :|
dlivingston 4y ago
AFAIK, the latest A-series chip to boot Linux is the A7/A8 (so, iPhone 7-ish): https://konradybcio.pl/linuxona7/ https://konradybcio.pl/linuxona7/
- my123 4y ago
  A7-A11 via checkm8.

syntaxing 4y ago

Does this mean there’s a decent chance to get this working in UTM? How much is this stuff transferrable to QEMU?

NobodyNada 4y ago
I'm not an expert on this, but my understanding is that GPU acceleration in virtual machines uses a "passthrough" method where the graphics calls on the guest system are simply translated to public APIs on the host system, and go through macOS's GPU drivers as usual. VMWare Fusion has had this capability on M1 since about a month or two ago. This project is designed to provide an open-source replacement for macOS's GPU drivers in order to boot Linux bare-metal, so it solves an entirely different problem. Maybe some of the knowledge will carry over -- especially the userspace side of things Alyssa was working on -- but as far as I know this is not automatically transferrable.
- fulafel 4y ago
  GPU passthrough is the opposite, there the hypervisor exposes the HW to a guest and the guest runs the bare-metalndriver.
viraptor 4y ago
For utm the interesting tech is venus / virgl (https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2021/11/26/venus-on-qemu-enabling-new-virtual-vulkan-driver/ https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2021/11/26/venu...) Like the other comments say this work is not really applicable to qemu.

2bitencryption 4y ago

* clean-room M1 GPU driver created by (seemingly) one dev in a matter of months * an excellent POC of Rust drivers on Linux * the dev live-streamed almost every minute of development * the dev is a virtual anime girl So far I'm LOVING 2022.

modshatereality 4y ago
Well that's bad news for anyone hoping this driver would ever be upstreamed, linux requires real identity for participation.
gpm 4y ago
> by (seemingly) one dev I think Alyssa Rosenzweig and Asahi Lina both did pretty substantial work on this?
- dottedmag 4y ago
  GPU driver is mostly by Alyssa, DCP (display controller) is mostly by Lina.
- kelnos 4y ago
  I believe Rosenzweig was responsible for the user-space bits; this post is about the kernel driver, which (as I understand it) was done entirely by Asahi Lina. (Both of them deserve a ton of praise, of course.)
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure this post is about both bits. I don't think you can pass that test suite without both bits.
    - entropicdrifter 4y ago
      It was passing that test suite when being run as of their XDC talk 10 days ago using only Alyssa's bit. This update shows that when using both bits combined it now passes with the same level of conformance. At least that's my understanding of it. You're right in that this is about both bits working together, but the person you're replying to is right in the sense that this particular update is showing specifically an update in Lina's bit.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

schaefer 4y ago

Sorry for the off topic question, but can a person dual boot Mac OS and a native Linux install on the M1???

thrtythreeforty 4y ago
Yes. That's what happens by default when you run the Asahi installer
rvz 4y ago
The correct straightforward answer is, not yet. (The installer is neither reliable or stable) This is why everyone else (non-developers) are waiting for a reliable release first rather than trying it out, something goes wrong and another person will find out and say: 'it's not ready for general use.'
- torpv12 4y ago
  Your first sentence is not accurate as, by default, the Asahi installer sets up a separate partition for dual-boot purposes. The Asahi developers have even recommended keeping this configuration in order to receive future firmware updates from Apple.
GeekyBear 4y ago
Apple designed a new bootloader that enforces security settings per partition and not per machine, so not only can you run a third party OS, doing so does not degrade the security when you boot the Mac partition.
- glial 4y ago
  I had to read that three times to make sure I was reading right. That's very...open...of them.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    Yes, it's very un-Apple of them, which some are taking as Apple being accepting and welcoming of other OSes, in particular Linux, on Macbooks. Which is an optimistic take, IMO, even if not unfounded.

imwillofficial 4y ago

I can't wait till we get a Linux iPad Pro

speedgoose 4y ago
I’m afraid most of the Linux classic applications will not be designed with multitouch inputs in mind. It may improve eventually, with newer software being created.
- noveltyaccount 4y ago
  But with a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard, could be a compelling form factor
  - 988747 4y ago
    If you count size of all the devices is not that compelling anymore.
- mdp2021 4y ago
  It's open, we will add the gestures.
sofixa 4y ago
iPads don't have the open bootloader of the Macbooks that would allow that.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  That's an obstruction, but usually someone eventually finds a way around that part. But we never get a usable OS for the hardware even if we can run arbitrary code. We have been able to run linux on older iphones for a while now but I'm not sure it's ever been a useful thing to do.
fsflover 4y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25172883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25172883

lamontcg 4y ago

Are we any closer to eGPU support for apple silicon?

mulderc 4y ago
I am skeptical that we will ever see that.
- fragmede 4y ago
  given that thunderbolt 3 is basically PCI, the only far fetched part would be having to write a 3rd party driver for the card. Given the high end businesses that exist in this world to work with video on the (eg Davinci on the iPad which was recently on the front page), combined with a demand for absolute highest end GPU performance, I think there's a business case for it. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to be open source though.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Considering how little commercial support there is for basic GPU functionality on regular Linux, it's wishful thinking to expect a mysterious stranger to write this code for you. Especially for black-box hardware.
    - anthk 4y ago
      eGPU-s work on Linux. https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2021-12-05-nixos-egpu.html https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2021-12-05-nixos-egpu.html
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        I don't think this is generic eGPU support. AFAIK, Nvidia's render offloading is baked into their driver. Not sure if it has an AMD/Intel equivalent.
    - fragmede 4y ago
      The mysterious strangers I have in mind are Blackmagic Design, who write Davinci Resolve, for both Mac and Linux, and have the economic incentive to. They made $576 million in revenue last year so it's not that far fetched.

THENATHE 4y ago

How likely is this to make some kind of stride in the macOS gaming world? Perhaps some kind of "headless" Linux VM that functions similar to parallels or wine that can essentially then run a proton layer to bring macOS up to par with Linux gaming. Can someone with more knowledge than me explain if that is feasible in the coming months/years?

sofixa 4y ago
I don't think that's at all the goal or even vague direction of the Asahi Linux project. It's to replace macOS, not to run as a VM within it. It's already possible to do what you want, with Parallels and any modern arm64 Linux distro, as long as the games are compiled for arm64 / you're willing to take the performance hit of emulation.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Not really macos gaming but it could be a bit thing for macbook gaming. My only laptop is a macbook and its powerful enough to run many of the games I play but they only run on windows/linux.
whywouldyoudo 4y ago
> How likely is this to make some kind of stride in the macOS gaming world? It doesn't make any strides unfortunately. > Perhaps some kind of "headless" Linux VM Linux narrowly supports the Steam Deck's goals. It doesn't make sense to use on a device like a Mac. > Can someone with more knowledge than me explain if that is feasible in the coming months/years? An end user is best served by Parallels. Overall, it doesn't make sense to run Windows-only games on a Mac.
smoldesu 4y ago
You might see a few games like Diablo 2 or DOOM running, but modern games are almost totally out of the question. The biggest roadblock is getting a complete Vulkan driver, which is at least a few years off. That would allow for DXVK to run, which enables the majority of Proton titles. And then there's the issue of the stack itself. It's hard enough getting Wine and DXVK to run on hardware designed to run Windows/DirectX respectively, but running it through Rosetta/Box86, on Asahi, using half-finished video drivers, is probably not great for stability. Just my $0.02. Edit: I thought you were talking about Asahi gaming. The state of Proton on MacOS is hopeless (Valve devs abandoned it after the Catalina announcement), but you can definitely run it in a VM if you're so-inclined. Wouldn't necessarily be any faster than using Windows in a VM, but it's still an option.

mechanical_bear 4y ago

Awesome work, glad to see such progress. Why is this person using such a weird voice modulation? Or are they using a text to voice to engine? It makes it difficult to understand.

dheera 4y ago
I'd do that if I posted videos online, I hate hearing my voice.
jamiek88 4y ago
Well our best emulator writer in decades killed themselves over harassment for being non binary via kiwi farms murderers (not the right word but nor is simply troll) so why risk the attention if you don’t want it? It’s tough out there in the culture wars. Rest in peace Near you magnificent person.
- mechanical_bear 4y ago
  I understand the sentiment, but if anything this draws more attention.
- 4gotunameagain 4y ago
kevincox 4y ago
Because they want to. I agree that it makes the videos hard to watch for me, but it's their choice to use and and my choice if I want to watch.

jl6 4y ago

This seems like a remarkable achievement for proprietary hardware. Doesn’t this sort of thing take years for the open Nvidia drivers?

fulafel 4y ago
Here's the Freedreno story: https://lwn.net/Articles/638908/ https://lwn.net/Articles/638908/ > So in mid-2012 he decided to do something about it. He was working for TI at the time, so PowerVR-based GPUs (as used by TI) were off-limits. He found some hardware that had an Adreno 220 and started to reverse engineer it. He began work on a Gallium driver in November 2012. By early 2013, he had most of the "normal stuff" working. He could run GNOME Shell and some games on the hardware. So it's been done before, but of course Freedreno's Rob Clark is undoubtedly exceptionally good as well. You have to wonder if the M1 situation would be different if he had been working for another company... (M1 GPU is PowerVR descendant and there hasn't been a open source driver for that lineage historically) For me it's a bit surprising that there are not more people working on it, the M1 having been out for 2 years already and this having wider appeal than the Freedreno initial users audience. But, maybe the 1 person way is better, since the Nouveau history seems to be people coming and going and work progressing in fits and starts: https://lwn.net/Articles/269558/ https://lwn.net/Articles/269558/ (Also the nouveau people were first to start, so they cleared way and paid a lot of dues saved by subsequent projects) edit: also nouveau history is somewhat chronicled in the early newsletters starting from the early 2006 days: https://people.freedesktop.org/~mslusarz/nouveau-wiki-dump/NouveauCompanion_1.html https://people.freedesktop.org/~mslusarz/nouveau-wiki-dump/N...
- fomine3 4y ago
  Latest nouveau story https://lwn.net/Articles/910343/ https://lwn.net/Articles/910343/