3 ms·

This is false, most of the TSMC and other fabs under construction right now will not be 5nm or lower nodes. They are legacy nodes

riskable 4y ago
This is mixing apples & oranges: The new fabs aren't the latest & greatest tech (e.g. 2-5nm) but they're still going to be producing 25-40nm chips using 300mm wafers which is smaller than most automotive-using chips which are 40-90nm (with the majority still being 90nm). The real problem though is that 300mm wafer size: A 40nm chip that was made for 200mm wafers still needs to be redesigned for 300mm wafers. It seems like that wouldn't be necessary--you'd think it would just mean you could cram more chips into a bigger space--but it's not so simple. It's not as difficult as designing for a completely new process (e.g. 5nm) but it's still a non-trivial change.
crote 4y ago
We are seeing shortages of chips initially taped out around 2007/2008 - think the STM32 family or the ATmega32U4. They are using technology from the early 2000s, think 65-90nm. For comparison the RP2040, released in 2020, uses the 40nm node. That's technology which is literally a decade old and it is considered a modern chip! Meanwhile, TSMC has publicly stated that they are not going to build more 40nm fabs and is actively trying to move customers to 28nm or newer[0]. There isn't any profit in building 40nm fabs anymore, let alone even more legacy ones. [0]: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/337567-tsmc-tells-its-customers-to-get-off-older-nodes-move-to-28nm https://www.extremetech.com/computing/337567-tsmc-tells-its-...
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  It is not really profitable to build FAB's in the US at all with the regulations, labor problems, and 100 other things CHIPs act and other government initiatives changes the profitability calculation since the government is paying a large part capital costs

3 ms·

This is false, most of the TSMC and other fabs under construction right now will not be 5nm or lower nodes. They are legacy nodes

by phpisthebest 4y ago

riskable 4y ago
This is mixing apples & oranges: The new fabs aren't the latest & greatest tech (e.g. 2-5nm) but they're still going to be producing 25-40nm chips using 300mm wafers which is smaller than most automotive-using chips which are 40-90nm (with the majority still being 90nm). The real problem though is that 300mm wafer size: A 40nm chip that was made for 200mm wafers still needs to be redesigned for 300mm wafers. It seems like that wouldn't be necessary--you'd think it would just mean you could cram more chips into a bigger space--but it's not so simple. It's not as difficult as designing for a completely new process (e.g. 5nm) but it's still a non-trivial change.
crote 4y ago
We are seeing shortages of chips initially taped out around 2007/2008 - think the STM32 family or the ATmega32U4. They are using technology from the early 2000s, think 65-90nm. For comparison the RP2040, released in 2020, uses the 40nm node. That's technology which is literally a decade old and it is considered a modern chip! Meanwhile, TSMC has publicly stated that they are not going to build more 40nm fabs and is actively trying to move customers to 28nm or newer[0]. There isn't any profit in building 40nm fabs anymore, let alone even more legacy ones. [0]: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/337567-tsmc-tells-its-customers-to-get-off-older-nodes-move-to-28nm https://www.extremetech.com/computing/337567-tsmc-tells-its-...
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  It is not really profitable to build FAB's in the US at all with the regulations, labor problems, and 100 other things CHIPs act and other government initiatives changes the profitability calculation since the government is paying a large part capital costs