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Women are more critical of female toplessness than men, which may be expl (cont)
- WarOnPrivacy 4y agoI'm a supporter of women's beach-dress equality. Guys should totally cover up that pasty man flab.
- WarOnPrivacy 4y agoThis seems like a pretty sound finding: >It was really clear that the driving force in how someone is likely to respond to seeing a topless woman in public is not the setting, region, or the legality of where the toplessness occurs, but rather the characteristics, traits, and opinions of the person who is doing the reacting in the first place,” Harbke told PsyPost. “Even though prior surveys have shown that many people feel that being able to go topless in public should be within women’s legal rights, these findings suggest that that doesn’t necessarily mean that they will react favorably to seeing it around them.”
- causi 4y ago* these findings suggest that that doesn’t necessarily mean that they will react favorably to seeing it around them.”* Well, yeah. Either you're going to be the type of person who thinks it's shameful, or the type of person to ogle them and make them uncomfortable, or the type of person who now has to try very hard not to ogle them. None of those are good reactions. Personally if I were in a place with topless women I would leave. Not looking would take too much willpower.
- WarOnPrivacy 4y ago> Either you're going to be the type of person who thinks it's shameful, or the type of person to ogle them and make them uncomfortable, or the type of person who now has to try very hard not to ogle them. None of those are good reactions. Personally if I were in a place with topless women I would leave. Not looking would take too much willpower. Are you certain that shame and ogling are the only reasonable choices (while on a topless beach)? Also, the latter seems like the result of objectification (the focus of the article).
- jakear 4y agoI’ll let you in on a secret: attractive people actually like being looked at, it’s a sign their work paid off. It builds self esteem. As a corollary, it is rare for someone to want no one to find them worth looking at.
- Brian_K_White 4y ago
- navjack27 4y agoHumans be humans. Our bodies aren't inherently anything but human. Let's all grow up and normalize allowing being comfortable in any situation. If a human feels constrained by the clothes that they currently have then they should be able to be comfortable and not wear or wear whatever they want. Life is hard.
- nashashmi 4y agoThat is absolutely not true. There is a minimum level of clothing for each environment and category. There is a standard limit on expression based on where you are and what you are doing. No freedom loving movement can ever walk away from or argue against this. And these limits are placed by a variety of subjects such sexuality, expression, weather, relationship, etc. We are humans who bounce between these subjects, categories, and environments. That is what makes us human and not animal. If someone feels "constrained" they are the issue.
- gjsman-1000 4y agoClothing, I would argue, is one of the things that give a human dignity, and raise the human above an animal. Work is another thing that falls in this category, as does not raping each other (some animals don't care). This is something that our ancestors understood well - look at how well they dressed despite the great economic difficulties in doing so for many of them. Animals don't wear clothes - and humans who get angry about wearing clothes make themselves animals, as do humans who despise working, or humans who attack people. These are fundamentally animal-like traits that we should be above. Animals are not meant to be an inspiration for tolerable human behavior. They attack each other, kill each other, eat each other, commit incest, and so on. Just because an animal doesn't wear clothes, and that humans are a form of glorified animal, does not mean that it follows in any way that humans should be okay with doing the same.
- seiferteric 4y agoWell at the very least, there is a level of clothing in many circumstances required to be sanitary... Don't really want completely nude people sitting on the bus seats.
- legitster 4y agoModesty was developed across multiple societies as a way of equalizing physical attractiveness. There was a counterintuitive study a few years ago that found wearing a hijab improved the wearer's body image: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2014/09/15/347083281/covering-up-with-the-hijab-may-aid-womens-body-image https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2014/09/15/3470832... As a guy, I may never understand the competition women feel about their looks. But it should not be surprising when some of them support the current DMZ.
- bruceb 4y agoWhen the media puts most of your value on looks it not surprising some women might feel like it is a competition.
- gjsman-1000 4y agoOn the other hand, remember that these modesty norms have existed in many cultures (particularly colder countries), for millennia. Long before there was a "media" creating competition.
- legitster 4y ago> particularly colder countries Keep in mind average breast size correlates with colder weather.
- BrandoElFollito 4y agoWhat is the correlation? Cold weather = large breasts, or the other way round? Or some non linear relation with a maximum somewhere?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoThe media? Aren't we hard-wired to seek attractive mates because attractiveness is correlated with good health and genetics?
- xchip 4y agoSpecially if they are married.
- ALittleLight 4y agoI wonder if the same thing would hold in countries where women wear the hijab or niqab.
- klyrs 4y ago... when the topless women are young, white, and conventionally attractive. And also the judginess correlates to local laws around the matter. I wonder if the men & women would flip if it was fat topless grannies.
- mrweasel 4y agoIn reality I kinda doubt age and color matter that much.
- DownvoteTherapy 4y ago
- mrweasel 4y agoI find this kinda hilarious. For years, decades even, women have been fighting for desexualizing breasts and now we learn that men are more tolerant of naked breast, compared to women, because of we tends to sexualize them.
- seiferteric 4y agoI can't believe anyone truly thinks that social rules are all remnants of a past patriarchal society where woman had no say or something. I am sure woman always had a strong influence on social norms. Personally I think men have a much more flexible morals and generally are kept in check by woman :) but I digress. Anyway you can see in the past the temperance movement for example was lead by woman, well before they had the right to vote.
- klyrs 4y agoThey specifically limited the pictures to young white women of "similar" appearance which I'm guessing means "conventionally attractive." Going by the men I know, that's exactly who they want to see topless. I'd be curious if the findings would stand if the pictures featured wrinkles, flab, and saggy boobs.
- orwin 4y agoI honestly think it's cultural, and most don't care in my area. The beach 5min from home have a lot of topless women on it, especially in summer (a lot less now) despite being packed with city dwellers, tourists and kids. I do sometimes take a look, as do a lot of people probably, but never heard of someone being a creep or being shamed.
- paulette449 4y agoA friend of a friend [1] used to walk topless around NYC on occasion. She would frequently get "stopped and released" by police. She knew the laws better than they did. She did say that she got far more verbal criticism/abuse from women as she walked around, than she did from men. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holly_Van_Voast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holly_Van_Voast
- DaveExeter 4y agoWomen get very upset when another woman is giving away for free what they expect men to pay for! It even has a name. Women policing other women is called 'slut-shaming'.
- gjsman-1000 4y agoEvery community that has ever existed self-polices, and (I believe) this is basically insurmountable - the only thing that can be changed is what they self-police for. Even here, Hacker News, we shame incompetent programmers. We shame misinformation spreaders, particularly those among us. We shame politicians who write laws we don't like. Self-preservative self-policing is pretty normal.
- DaveExeter 4y agoI think it is different. Woman cannot stop 'slut-shaming' any more then men can stop 'objectifying' women. Remember, women are trapped in a zero-sum competition for a limited number of acceptable mates. A programming analog would be commercial software programmers shaming open-source programmers. That doesn't seem to happen.
- yucky 4y ago>women are trapped in a zero-sum competition for a limited number of acceptable mates. Odd, since the majority of men seem to be ones losing out on that though since "acceptable mates" for most women is the top 20% of males. This reminds me of the stat that is meant to guilt society into considering how horrible it is that 1 out of 4 homeless people is a woman. Or even better, the famous Hillary Clinton quote: "Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat."
- tomas_nort 4y ago