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It's almost an irony, given where they're deployed, but icons are an interface which favors the expert over the beginner. iOS has terrible discoverability, you

It's almost an irony, given where they're deployed, but icons are an interface which favors the expert over the beginner. iOS has terrible discoverability, you'd think Apple could afford to release a detailed manual, but once you've figured out what all the icons and gestures mean and do, it's fluid. A better example is any photo or vector editor you've ever used. They all have tons of icons, all over the place, and if you want to use them, you do need to figure out what they mean. Even with keyboard shortcuts, the selected tool is indicated with the icon. Programmers are heavily biased towards using words for everything, it's a strength in the context of the profession. The "any text can be selected and run as a command" interfaces are a dead end, but I'm in favor of revival, it's a great match for the kind of work we do. But if you give an artist a drawing tool with only "Tool→Lasso→Magic Lasso" as an interface, they just won't use it.

reaperducer 4y ago
iOS has terrible discoverability Absolutely. I really don't understand how people think that making controls invisible is in any way useful, or user-friendly. To me, the worst is "We just showed you this big screen of options. But we're not going to show you that you can search the options if you drag the screen downward to reveal a search bar. But you wouldn't think to do that anyway, because pulling down on a screen is the Refresh function in other places." you'd think Apple could afford to release a detailed manual It does: https://books.apple.com/book/id6443146864 https://books.apple.com/book/id6443146864 but once you've figured out what all the icons and gestures mean and do, it's fluid Yep. How to do something in iOS n is not how to do something in iOS n+1. By the time you read through Apple's 74 page manual, you have a new version of iOS and have to start over again. I'd rather spend time with my cat and my family than re-learn every piece of tech from every giant tech company over and over again.
- samatman 4y ago
  > It does: https://books.apple.com/book/id6443146864 https://books.apple.com/book/id6443146864 I wish I was joking: my first iPhone was a 4, and you're telling me this for the first time. Did I mention that discoverability is terrible? I'm sure that URL was printed in tiny gray text on that tiny piece of paper you always throw away first... On the bright side, I'm going to read it. Thanks.
  - reaperducer 4y ago
    I'm sure that URL was printed in tiny gray text on that tiny piece of paper you always throw away first You are correct. That's exactly where it is. Or maybe was. Because I don't remember seeing it this time with the latest phone. Maybe it's not even there now. Maybe it's in the Tips app now. It used to be available as a PDF, but I could only find it in Apple Books.
  - SllX 4y ago
    > Did I mention that discoverability is terrible? Apple does also include the Tips app, with notifications for it turned on by default. In previous iterations if you read all the tips for your new phone, it would point you to the iPhone User Guide; now it’s just at the bottom if you scroll all the way down and you don’t have to read it in Apple Books anymore. iPhones have a lot of new features every year, so I find it helpful to go through the Tips app at least once every new OS release and also every phone purchase and I usually learn a couple of new things by doing so.
- bantunes 4y ago
  It's Apple-think. I showed someone I know (who used to work at Apple) my SailfishOS phone, and this was before iOS added gestures to manage apps. SailfishOS had those "pull down to minimize" and so on gestures before iOS, and when he tried them out he said they were terrible UX because they were hard to discover. As soon as iOS added them, they were the future of mobile UIs.
  - pram 4y ago
    The whole flicking 'cards' to manage apps thing was from WebOS.
    - indymike 4y ago
      Flicking cards was the absolute best part of webos. It was irrationally entertaining.
      - 0x445442 4y ago
        What made it great was the Palm Pre’s size made it so ergonomic to hold the phone one handed and manipulate the cards with the thumb.
whywhywhywhy 4y ago
>iOS has terrible discoverability, I’ve used it since v1 and still don’t know how to do some things reliably. Lately some weird new copy and paste bar appears, no idea how I’m triggering it. I mean if it works better than the OG awful copy paste menu I’d be all for it but how the heck is it even appearing. Don’t get me started on the camera app, can never figure out how to get the flash setting how I want it. It tries to be smart but stops me just setting it as I want. Need apple to trust me when I know long exposure won’t be enough
- ghaff 4y ago
  Every year or two, I figure I really should read up on what new features/changes Apple has added to iOS (or iPadOS) that I don't know about. (And, because I so rarely use, I still never know how to use the split screen stuff in iPadOS.)
  - bitexploder 4y ago
    Split screen is easy. Tap drag from top middle down and to a side. App takes up less than all of screen if app supports it. Anchor it to a side. Tap another app. Done. Not intuitive at all, though.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Right. That's sort of my point though. When I haven't used it in 4 months, I forget and can't figure it out without looking it up.
      - kjkjadksj 4y ago
        Its so stupid, because on a mac for touchpad gestures they have these nice demonstration videos built in. They have what could be a great model for this documentation already.
    - projektfu 4y ago
      iPad OS frequently pulls up a file list that I am not sure where it came from that is extremely hard to dismiss (no close box and obvious gestures are mockingly not effective). I eventually get rid of it and forget how. The whole process makes me feel like an 80 year old facing DOS.
pavlov 4y ago
In my experience artists using complex software actually prefer text labels to an endless sea of icons. High-end visual effects software tends to use text buttons. Twenty years ago, when there still was competition in high-end 3D packages, before Autodesk bought everybody and monopolized the market, there was a race between Maya and Softimage XSI. The latter was generally praised for its artist-friendly UI which used text labels while Maya was icon-heavy and seen more as a technically oriented tool.
0x445442 4y ago
Yeah I would love to see references to studies that attempt to categorize these disparate use cases you’ve described. On the one hand, there does seem to be a clear demarcation between an interface that’s facilitating information creation and retrieval versus ones that facilitate more artistic endeavors such as photo and video editing. On the other hand, you have use cases like Autocad which seem to blur the lines.
- prox 4y ago
  Read the book “About Face : on Interaction Design” , you are describing different “postures” of application. It’s a must read if you want to stop guessing about what interface fits where. It’s my bible as it were.
prox 4y ago
Menu’s are beginner level, icons are for intermediates and keyboard shortcuts are for experts. All are necessary. Tutorials are for onboarding and getting the beginners started.
gcanyon 4y ago
> iOS has terrible discoverability I think you mean: a touch interface makes discoverability especially difficult, and iOS doesn't do enough to address this.
marcosdumay 4y ago
> But if you give an artist a drawing tool with only "Tool→Lasso→Magic Lasso" as an interface, they just won't use it. I just can't fail to remember how every architect absolutely loves the AutoCad CLI.

reaperducer 4y ago

iOS has terrible discoverability Absolutely. I really don't understand how people think that making controls invisible is in any way useful, or user-friendly. To me, the worst is "We just showed you this big screen of options. But we're not going to show you that you can search the options if you drag the screen downward to reveal a search bar. But you wouldn't think to do that anyway, because pulling down on a screen is the Refresh function in other places." you'd think Apple could afford to release a detailed manual It does: https://books.apple.com/book/id6443146864 https://books.apple.com/book/id6443146864 but once you've figured out what all the icons and gestures mean and do, it's fluid Yep. How to do something in iOS n is not how to do something in iOS n+1. By the time you read through Apple's 74 page manual, you have a new version of iOS and have to start over again. I'd rather spend time with my cat and my family than re-learn every piece of tech from every giant tech company over and over again.

samatman 4y ago
> It does: https://books.apple.com/book/id6443146864 https://books.apple.com/book/id6443146864 I wish I was joking: my first iPhone was a 4, and you're telling me this for the first time. Did I mention that discoverability is terrible? I'm sure that URL was printed in tiny gray text on that tiny piece of paper you always throw away first... On the bright side, I'm going to read it. Thanks.
- reaperducer 4y ago
  I'm sure that URL was printed in tiny gray text on that tiny piece of paper you always throw away first You are correct. That's exactly where it is. Or maybe was. Because I don't remember seeing it this time with the latest phone. Maybe it's not even there now. Maybe it's in the Tips app now. It used to be available as a PDF, but I could only find it in Apple Books.
- SllX 4y ago
  > Did I mention that discoverability is terrible? Apple does also include the Tips app, with notifications for it turned on by default. In previous iterations if you read all the tips for your new phone, it would point you to the iPhone User Guide; now it’s just at the bottom if you scroll all the way down and you don’t have to read it in Apple Books anymore. iPhones have a lot of new features every year, so I find it helpful to go through the Tips app at least once every new OS release and also every phone purchase and I usually learn a couple of new things by doing so.
bantunes 4y ago
It's Apple-think. I showed someone I know (who used to work at Apple) my SailfishOS phone, and this was before iOS added gestures to manage apps. SailfishOS had those "pull down to minimize" and so on gestures before iOS, and when he tried them out he said they were terrible UX because they were hard to discover. As soon as iOS added them, they were the future of mobile UIs.
- pram 4y ago
  The whole flicking 'cards' to manage apps thing was from WebOS.
  - indymike 4y ago
    Flicking cards was the absolute best part of webos. It was irrationally entertaining.
    - 0x445442 4y ago
      What made it great was the Palm Pre’s size made it so ergonomic to hold the phone one handed and manipulate the cards with the thumb.

whywhywhywhy 4y ago

>iOS has terrible discoverability, I’ve used it since v1 and still don’t know how to do some things reliably. Lately some weird new copy and paste bar appears, no idea how I’m triggering it. I mean if it works better than the OG awful copy paste menu I’d be all for it but how the heck is it even appearing. Don’t get me started on the camera app, can never figure out how to get the flash setting how I want it. It tries to be smart but stops me just setting it as I want. Need apple to trust me when I know long exposure won’t be enough

ghaff 4y ago
Every year or two, I figure I really should read up on what new features/changes Apple has added to iOS (or iPadOS) that I don't know about. (And, because I so rarely use, I still never know how to use the split screen stuff in iPadOS.)
- bitexploder 4y ago
  Split screen is easy. Tap drag from top middle down and to a side. App takes up less than all of screen if app supports it. Anchor it to a side. Tap another app. Done. Not intuitive at all, though.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Right. That's sort of my point though. When I haven't used it in 4 months, I forget and can't figure it out without looking it up.
    - kjkjadksj 4y ago
      Its so stupid, because on a mac for touchpad gestures they have these nice demonstration videos built in. They have what could be a great model for this documentation already.
  - projektfu 4y ago
    iPad OS frequently pulls up a file list that I am not sure where it came from that is extremely hard to dismiss (no close box and obvious gestures are mockingly not effective). I eventually get rid of it and forget how. The whole process makes me feel like an 80 year old facing DOS.

pavlov 4y ago

In my experience artists using complex software actually prefer text labels to an endless sea of icons. High-end visual effects software tends to use text buttons. Twenty years ago, when there still was competition in high-end 3D packages, before Autodesk bought everybody and monopolized the market, there was a race between Maya and Softimage XSI. The latter was generally praised for its artist-friendly UI which used text labels while Maya was icon-heavy and seen more as a technically oriented tool.

0x445442 4y ago

Yeah I would love to see references to studies that attempt to categorize these disparate use cases you’ve described. On the one hand, there does seem to be a clear demarcation between an interface that’s facilitating information creation and retrieval versus ones that facilitate more artistic endeavors such as photo and video editing. On the other hand, you have use cases like Autocad which seem to blur the lines.

prox 4y ago
Read the book “About Face : on Interaction Design” , you are describing different “postures” of application. It’s a must read if you want to stop guessing about what interface fits where. It’s my bible as it were.

prox 4y ago

Menu’s are beginner level, icons are for intermediates and keyboard shortcuts are for experts. All are necessary. Tutorials are for onboarding and getting the beginners started.

gcanyon 4y ago

> iOS has terrible discoverability I think you mean: a touch interface makes discoverability especially difficult, and iOS doesn't do enough to address this.

marcosdumay 4y ago

> But if you give an artist a drawing tool with only "Tool→Lasso→Magic Lasso" as an interface, they just won't use it. I just can't fail to remember how every architect absolutely loves the AutoCad CLI.