7 ms·

This is a useful way to think about how markets/platforms evolve. I have yet to use Airbnb. But it seems that the target customer has changed. I have been awar

This is a useful way to think about how markets/platforms evolve. I have yet to use Airbnb. But it seems that the target customer has changed. I have been aware of them since they first showed up on Hacker News. They were pitched as renting an airbed where hotels are not a useful choice. That target customer is a demographic that I had aged out of before they started. If they were still marketing only to very young people willing to sleep on an airbed and not risk-averse to bedbugs, there would be a lot less disappointment. But of course the company wants to, as all do, grow to other customers and markets. I wonder if the original investors always thought that they would try to compete with hotels for higher end customers as they do now.

hef19898 4y ago
What AirBnB missed was to include hotels in its listings, which would have allowed them to over a complete experience for travelers in general. booking.com started with hotels and included more AirBnB style listings.
- VBprogrammer 4y ago
  Expanding into different niches like that is difficult. It's like Booking.com expanding into the camping market. They end up trying to shoehorn camping into the same database tables as hotel stays and it just becomes an abomination which misses many of the subtleties in the market.
  - rjsw 4y ago
    I think Booking.com expanding into camping would work fine in Europe, most campsites are busineses with a defined set of facilities that they offer.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      Depends on the camp grounds. Those with specified and defined places it should be rather easy to do (Italy, Croatia, Germany are among those regions were you tend to have a lot those, France is a mixed bag and I haven't been to GB or Scandinavia recently). Those without defined places, that's gonna be difficult...
- ghaff 4y ago
  A lot of B&Bs (in the sense of small inns) in the US do list on AirBnB.
- slaw 4y ago
  AirBnb lists some hotel rooms in Mexico.
Spooky23 4y ago
It changed when it turned into a big VC thing. All of the “Uber for X” models are fundamentally evil at scale. The founders vision is irrelevant to the investors need for return. The business model is to grow until the market is saturated, and then become one of the 3-4 entities that dominate their niche. VRBO chalked out the “vacation home” scope, hotels do their thing, so AirBnb dabbles in everything, but owns the “shared” accommodation part of the market. While they advertise a treehouse in the rainforest or whatever, the socially problematic conversions of apartments to flop houses in locations without hotels ultimately drives the business.
- johnnymorgan 4y ago
  I love that you used the term flop house and it also accurately describes the value prop :)
- ethbr0 4y ago
  Post-Google, I don't think there's any excuse for founders of marketplaces / platforms to ignore the ultimate metastasization of their business models. If you are wildly successful (oh, to be so lucky), what will your company be forced to optimize? Mid-years Amazon's radically generous customer service refunds and Etsy's seller revolt yanked their courses away from volume optimization for a few years... but it's their inevitable end state for boosting revenue. No public company can resist maximizing revenue by any means available, and especially when no other plausible alternatives are available. So think really hard on how to set up a marketplace / platform with a business model that mixes in more user-aligned and sustainable goals? Looking at you, Apple...
  - SQueeeeeL 4y ago
    This sounds like actually healthy productive places to exist and exchange might have to... exist outside of the realm of continuous growth by individuals motivated by ideology over profit.
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      The the need for cancer-like growth is really a driver of the worst behavior. As a consumer of B2B services, I’m always amazed by the awful deals companies make to show revenue growth. One in particular a few years ago was particularly amazing. The sales dude was getting paid on revenue, and pushed through a deal that cost the company fortune. The entire sales chain of command retired and bought boats.
Aeolun 4y ago
> If they were still marketing only to very young people willing to sleep on an airbed and not risk-averse to bedbugs, there would be a lot less disappointment. This would be fine if you were paying consummate prices. I’ve used AirBnB years back and for $20 a night you got about what you can expect. $3000 for that hovel is extortionate!
candiodari 4y ago
What I don't get is ... where is the government in all this? As the article points out: the owners of the property clearly violate a lot of laws. So I hear violating the law gets you into "trouble with the law". Well, clearly it doesn't.
- rjzzleep 4y ago
  I once went to the German police over an illegal listing, after the owner got physical when I asked him to turn on the heat at night. The police laughed at me and told me what I did wrong. Part of it was racism, but the other part of it was just laziness. To actually get something to happen you have to send a letter to the general prosecutor, who then orders the police to investigate. This process takes months.
- datavirtue 4y ago
  Government resources are not web scale. They do not and cannot scale except through legislation in some cases.
- pasttense01 4y ago
  What happens when you do complain? You lose your illegal rental accommodation. This is not a win.
ycombinator_acc 4y ago
Are you saying there are no bedbugs in hotels? If so, I have bed news for you.
- mcculley 4y ago
  No, that would be silly. I am aware of the risk of bedbugs. I know they are less likely in facilities regulated by local health departments.

hef19898 4y ago

What AirBnB missed was to include hotels in its listings, which would have allowed them to over a complete experience for travelers in general. booking.com started with hotels and included more AirBnB style listings.

VBprogrammer 4y ago
Expanding into different niches like that is difficult. It's like Booking.com expanding into the camping market. They end up trying to shoehorn camping into the same database tables as hotel stays and it just becomes an abomination which misses many of the subtleties in the market.
- rjsw 4y ago
  I think Booking.com expanding into camping would work fine in Europe, most campsites are busineses with a defined set of facilities that they offer.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Depends on the camp grounds. Those with specified and defined places it should be rather easy to do (Italy, Croatia, Germany are among those regions were you tend to have a lot those, France is a mixed bag and I haven't been to GB or Scandinavia recently). Those without defined places, that's gonna be difficult...
ghaff 4y ago
A lot of B&Bs (in the sense of small inns) in the US do list on AirBnB.
slaw 4y ago
AirBnb lists some hotel rooms in Mexico.

Spooky23 4y ago

It changed when it turned into a big VC thing. All of the “Uber for X” models are fundamentally evil at scale. The founders vision is irrelevant to the investors need for return. The business model is to grow until the market is saturated, and then become one of the 3-4 entities that dominate their niche. VRBO chalked out the “vacation home” scope, hotels do their thing, so AirBnb dabbles in everything, but owns the “shared” accommodation part of the market. While they advertise a treehouse in the rainforest or whatever, the socially problematic conversions of apartments to flop houses in locations without hotels ultimately drives the business.

johnnymorgan 4y ago
I love that you used the term flop house and it also accurately describes the value prop :)
ethbr0 4y ago
Post-Google, I don't think there's any excuse for founders of marketplaces / platforms to ignore the ultimate metastasization of their business models. If you are wildly successful (oh, to be so lucky), what will your company be forced to optimize? Mid-years Amazon's radically generous customer service refunds and Etsy's seller revolt yanked their courses away from volume optimization for a few years... but it's their inevitable end state for boosting revenue. No public company can resist maximizing revenue by any means available, and especially when no other plausible alternatives are available. So think really hard on how to set up a marketplace / platform with a business model that mixes in more user-aligned and sustainable goals? Looking at you, Apple...
- SQueeeeeL 4y ago
  This sounds like actually healthy productive places to exist and exchange might have to... exist outside of the realm of continuous growth by individuals motivated by ideology over profit.
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    The the need for cancer-like growth is really a driver of the worst behavior. As a consumer of B2B services, I’m always amazed by the awful deals companies make to show revenue growth. One in particular a few years ago was particularly amazing. The sales dude was getting paid on revenue, and pushed through a deal that cost the company fortune. The entire sales chain of command retired and bought boats.

Aeolun 4y ago

> If they were still marketing only to very young people willing to sleep on an airbed and not risk-averse to bedbugs, there would be a lot less disappointment. This would be fine if you were paying consummate prices. I’ve used AirBnB years back and for $20 a night you got about what you can expect. $3000 for that hovel is extortionate!

candiodari 4y ago

What I don't get is ... where is the government in all this? As the article points out: the owners of the property clearly violate a lot of laws. So I hear violating the law gets you into "trouble with the law". Well, clearly it doesn't.

rjzzleep 4y ago
I once went to the German police over an illegal listing, after the owner got physical when I asked him to turn on the heat at night. The police laughed at me and told me what I did wrong. Part of it was racism, but the other part of it was just laziness. To actually get something to happen you have to send a letter to the general prosecutor, who then orders the police to investigate. This process takes months.
datavirtue 4y ago
Government resources are not web scale. They do not and cannot scale except through legislation in some cases.
pasttense01 4y ago
What happens when you do complain? You lose your illegal rental accommodation. This is not a win.

ycombinator_acc 4y ago

Are you saying there are no bedbugs in hotels? If so, I have bed news for you.

mcculley 4y ago
No, that would be silly. I am aware of the risk of bedbugs. I know they are less likely in facilities regulated by local health departments.