5 ms·

Without comparing to other high density cities for basic theft, I don't really find this that useful. :( To wit, in Seattle we had our car broken into once. W

by taeric 4y ago

Without comparing to other high density cities for basic theft, I don't really find this that useful. :( To wit, in Seattle we had our car broken into once. We also had a habit of forgetting the car keys /on top of the car/, such that we would have said we live in a very very safe place. Despite the time the car was broken into. When I lived in Atlanta, the general practice was not to lock your car, so that they wouldn't have to break in to it.

seibelj 4y ago
I live in Boston, which is a similar size and population to SF, and it's extremely safe. There is some crime but even something minor like porch pirates are pretty much not a thing. There is a skid row named "Mass and Cass" which has had HBO documentaries made about it, but there are a lot of protests from citizens advocating to clean it up. At some point you need the police to arrest all these people and throw them in jail. Even a few weeks behind bars can drastically improve behavior among a population used to zero consequences for theft and violence.
- thatfrenchguy 4y ago
  You probably just live in a safe neighborhood frankly. I live in a safe hood in SF and never got anything stolen, and I've seen only one broken car window in the past year. It's night and day compared to Paris for me.
  - thehappypm 4y ago
    Boston is a very, very safe place. There are really a very small number of bad neighborhoods (Mass & Cass for example).
    - eropple 4y ago
      I agree with you. Boston has an old reputation for sketchy areas. It surely was justified at one point, too (as well as outlying areas; Somerville was a bit eyebrow-raising when I was young, I remember that). But for most of the city, especially the places folks on HN are likely to ever be, it's quite safe. My parents sent me breathless statistics about Dorchester being a hive of scum and villainy and for being among "the least safe" areas of Boston, I never even saw a broken window, let alone heard gunshots or read reports of violence.
- dudul 4y ago
  Been in Boston for 15 years. Never had a problem. I've crossed the city many times at 2am walking drunk from a bar, nothing. Not even a single package theft in 15 years.
  - taeric 4y ago
    As a male, I've done the same in Atlanta and in Seattle. In Atlanta, was so late coming home that the transit was closed and I walked 7ish miles to get home. Through downtown. I still don't claim it is a safer city than Seattle. Not by a long shot. Just as I don't recommend walking downtown Seattle super late. Though, of course, have done so many times. Similarly, we never had package theft in Seattle. I don't know how I could claim that isn't a thing, though.
    - lazyasciiart 4y ago
      I'm a woman, and I walk through downtown Seattle super late. It's not actually a black hole of murder, even after midnight.
      - taeric 4y ago
        Fair. I still wouldn't recommend it for a lot of places. Doesn't mean I find the place dangerous. Just norms of safety are relative.
defrost 4y ago
Agreed. I too am a victim of theft!! Drama aside, that's exactly once, about 16 years ago, and it was (i reckon) some kids that came in through an open window and took a backpack (cool cameo design), a gaming console, and my sons bike. (Perth, Westerm Australia) Total cost - well under theft insurance rates which I have yet to subscribe to. Point being "nearly half" doesn't convey nearly as much infomation as the scare reaction to the statement warrents.
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
> Without comparing to other high density cities for basic theft, I don't really find this that useful. :( Why not? High crime rates are bad in any city. It doesn't become okay if multiple big cities have high crime rates. It's weird to see how so many people are trying to normalize crime rates this high.
- taeric 4y ago
  I mean, yeah? But if the majority of the problem is porch theft, you have a lot different of a reaction compared to if the majority of it is armed robbery. (Or, really, personal robbery period.) My point is, as someone that doesn't live in San Fran, I don't know how this compares. Is it actually high? Or, is half actually low for comparable density locations. Back when I was in a low population area, but lived in duplexes, I had my apartment broken into. And way more petty theft than now that I live where I do. Yet, I don't know that I would expect crime is higher there.
- leetcrew 4y ago
  people consider a lot of different factors when choosing a place to live. crime rate is an important factor, but it's not the only one. reading that some other city has X armed robberies per capita doesn't give a great sense of how that would actually impact my day-to-day life. obviously I'd like X to be as low as possible, but if it's already lower than where I currently live and the place has other positive qualities, I would consider moving there.
1123581321 4y ago
If the surveying is accurate and representative, it's useful because it means that crime is unusually indiscriminate (high rates of anonymous crime.) Crime more typically happens between people with connections to each other. For example, my city has a per capita crime rate similar to San Fransisco's, but most don't experience it unless they live or work in a few neighborhoods (or single intersections in some cases.) In my city, something like 5-10% of people would report having recently been a victim of a crime, despite the number of crimes per capita being similar.
maerF0x0 4y ago
> Without comparing to other high density cities for basic theft, I don't really find this that useful. :( It's useful to also gather the sentiment. It doesnt matter if SF is the best city if they're all bad. At a certain point it doesnt matter if you're slightly better than unacceptable -- it's still unacceptable.

by taeric 4y ago

seibelj 4y ago

I live in Boston, which is a similar size and population to SF, and it's extremely safe. There is some crime but even something minor like porch pirates are pretty much not a thing. There is a skid row named "Mass and Cass" which has had HBO documentaries made about it, but there are a lot of protests from citizens advocating to clean it up. At some point you need the police to arrest all these people and throw them in jail. Even a few weeks behind bars can drastically improve behavior among a population used to zero consequences for theft and violence.

thatfrenchguy 4y ago
You probably just live in a safe neighborhood frankly. I live in a safe hood in SF and never got anything stolen, and I've seen only one broken car window in the past year. It's night and day compared to Paris for me.
- thehappypm 4y ago
  Boston is a very, very safe place. There are really a very small number of bad neighborhoods (Mass & Cass for example).
  - eropple 4y ago
    I agree with you. Boston has an old reputation for sketchy areas. It surely was justified at one point, too (as well as outlying areas; Somerville was a bit eyebrow-raising when I was young, I remember that). But for most of the city, especially the places folks on HN are likely to ever be, it's quite safe. My parents sent me breathless statistics about Dorchester being a hive of scum and villainy and for being among "the least safe" areas of Boston, I never even saw a broken window, let alone heard gunshots or read reports of violence.
dudul 4y ago
Been in Boston for 15 years. Never had a problem. I've crossed the city many times at 2am walking drunk from a bar, nothing. Not even a single package theft in 15 years.
- taeric 4y ago
  As a male, I've done the same in Atlanta and in Seattle. In Atlanta, was so late coming home that the transit was closed and I walked 7ish miles to get home. Through downtown. I still don't claim it is a safer city than Seattle. Not by a long shot. Just as I don't recommend walking downtown Seattle super late. Though, of course, have done so many times. Similarly, we never had package theft in Seattle. I don't know how I could claim that isn't a thing, though.
  - lazyasciiart 4y ago
    I'm a woman, and I walk through downtown Seattle super late. It's not actually a black hole of murder, even after midnight.
    - taeric 4y ago
      Fair. I still wouldn't recommend it for a lot of places. Doesn't mean I find the place dangerous. Just norms of safety are relative.

defrost 4y ago

Agreed. I too am a victim of theft!! Drama aside, that's exactly once, about 16 years ago, and it was (i reckon) some kids that came in through an open window and took a backpack (cool cameo design), a gaming console, and my sons bike. (Perth, Westerm Australia) Total cost - well under theft insurance rates which I have yet to subscribe to. Point being "nearly half" doesn't convey nearly as much infomation as the scare reaction to the statement warrents.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

> Without comparing to other high density cities for basic theft, I don't really find this that useful. :( Why not? High crime rates are bad in any city. It doesn't become okay if multiple big cities have high crime rates. It's weird to see how so many people are trying to normalize crime rates this high.

taeric 4y ago
I mean, yeah? But if the majority of the problem is porch theft, you have a lot different of a reaction compared to if the majority of it is armed robbery. (Or, really, personal robbery period.) My point is, as someone that doesn't live in San Fran, I don't know how this compares. Is it actually high? Or, is half actually low for comparable density locations. Back when I was in a low population area, but lived in duplexes, I had my apartment broken into. And way more petty theft than now that I live where I do. Yet, I don't know that I would expect crime is higher there.
leetcrew 4y ago
people consider a lot of different factors when choosing a place to live. crime rate is an important factor, but it's not the only one. reading that some other city has X armed robberies per capita doesn't give a great sense of how that would actually impact my day-to-day life. obviously I'd like X to be as low as possible, but if it's already lower than where I currently live and the place has other positive qualities, I would consider moving there.

1123581321 4y ago

If the surveying is accurate and representative, it's useful because it means that crime is unusually indiscriminate (high rates of anonymous crime.) Crime more typically happens between people with connections to each other. For example, my city has a per capita crime rate similar to San Fransisco's, but most don't experience it unless they live or work in a few neighborhoods (or single intersections in some cases.) In my city, something like 5-10% of people would report having recently been a victim of a crime, despite the number of crimes per capita being similar.

maerF0x0 4y ago

> Without comparing to other high density cities for basic theft, I don't really find this that useful. :( It's useful to also gather the sentiment. It doesnt matter if SF is the best city if they're all bad. At a certain point it doesnt matter if you're slightly better than unacceptable -- it's still unacceptable.