8 ms·

Yeah, except you know, barcelona’s traffic is horrible.

RobertoG 4y ago
Not worse that before and, anyway, who cares? This is about making people lives better not improving car traffic. Two goals that, in my opinion, are in opposition.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  Point is they havent made people’s lives easier since so many still need to drive cars. Barcelona is anything but a good example of how things should be.
  - danuker 4y ago
    Citation needed, for all three of your claims.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      I am citing myself as i’ve been there for a while and its absolutely horrible.
      - danuker 4y ago
        Google public transport directions show me it's 2x as slower than cars, but 4x faster than walking from the airport to Sargada Familia. In my city in Romania, public transport is about the same speed as walking. So I'd say Barcelona has great public transport, based on this limited analysis. Hence, citations neede. What exactly was bad? Did you only try driving?
        yrgulation 4y ago
        I mean compared to romania, particularly to poorly managed cities such as cluj napoca indeed barceona’s public transport is a blessing. But unfortunately locals dont commute to sagrada familia on a daily basis. Commuting to and from el prat or other office areas is a nightmare, as is reaching to smaller businesses around town. Pulling out stats without actually having been there is misleading as you risk thinking everyone is a tourist taking trains to attractions on the regular, which is what most public transport was designed for - its basically their economy so naturally it will be biased towards that.
        danuker 4y ago
        Fair point. From El Prat to where, do you think would be a fair analysis?
        RobertoG 4y ago
        El Prat is not Barcelona, and, still, you have train, metro, public and private bus as an option to arrive from downtown. The idea that public transport has been designed for tourists is preposterous. The network of public transport extend far away from the touristic places. Most tourist, and most expats in my experience (I'm thinking in those that don't bother to learn any local language), stay in three or four neighborhoods and think that that's the city and get their impressions from those few areas. That's the reason you always hear the same histories: pickpockets (stealing from tourists), dirty (drunk tourist peeing in the streets), etc
        midoridensha 4y ago
        >Google public transport directions show me it's 2x as slower than cars, but 4x faster than walking from the airport to Sargada Familia. ... So I'd say Barcelona has great public transport, based on this limited analysis. That doesn't sound all that great to me. Here in Tokyo, driving is generally not significantly faster than public transit, though of course it can vary a lot depending on your two endpoints. And of course, if you add in time to find parking, that usually makes driving very unattractive (though this doesn't affect taxis of course, so those can be attractive for some routes if you have tons of money you want to waste because they're not cheap).
  - RobertoG 4y ago
    The point is totally wrong. Most people that live on those areas are pretty happy with the changes, and people that is just passing around those areas are pretty happy too. By the way, you don't need a car if you live and work in Barcelona. In fact, most people that own a car don't use it if they are moving inside the city.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      Issue tho is that barcelona has plenty of satellite towns and villages, so your comment proves my point. What i want is an actual solution that takes people out of their cars in a meaningful way, not just hippies that have no other choice due to poverty. Proper public transport is in everyone’s interest.
      - RobertoG 4y ago
        I fail to see how my comment proves your point and I fail to see how this comment improves your previous argument.
cammikebrown 4y ago
Why would you ever drive in such a city? The public transit is fantastic.
- polskibus 4y ago
  Actually the metro is horrible in the summer, as if there was no ventilation.
  - betaby 4y ago
    Which line exactly? Visited Barcelona in august - don't remember ventilation issues.
    - stoplying1 4y ago
      Yeah, I was there in the height of the heatwave 3 years ago. Walking and transit was fine.
    - ErneX 4y ago
      Old lines mostly, like the 1 (red)
    - stevenwoo 4y ago
      Some of the lines are extremely uncomfortable in summer afternoon (was there July 2019 and there was a heat wave for a week with temps of over 100 F), but that was record setting at the time and I was only a tourist.
    - polskibus 4y ago
      I used mostly red this year, sometimes the green one too. Much worse than Valencia for example.
  - weatherlight 4y ago
    The Barcelona Metro is fine. I used it all summer with no issue, trains come ever 4 minutes and the each car is ventilated and air-conditioned
- 4y ago
Daishiman 4y ago
The point isn’t to make it easier for traffic.
xwkd 4y ago
My assumption is that if you are ideologically opposed to private vehicular transportation, then you see this as a good incentive not to own a car. I think things like this are a funny marriage of utopian and tyrannical daydreams.
- RobertoG 4y ago
  The idea that you can drive your car to my street, generating noise and contamination and park it there using space, where the kids could be playing, just because you can't be bothered to take a bus is kind of tyrannical too, in my opinion. And it has nothing of utopian.
  - lotsoweiners 4y ago
    Park in front of my house all you want. I have a big backyard my kids can play in and wouldn't ever want them playing out front unsupervised regardless cars or not.
    - stoplying1 4y ago
      Man, I wonder what its like to post this unironically, and not realize what a complete knob you are. You sure did seem to make it though your kids growing up in an isolated sandbox environment. Really evokes some stupid philosophical thoughts I have about "reproducability", free will, and the human experience. But you clearly have it thought through. Lucky kids.
- stoplying1 4y ago
  "we want to prioritize walking over huge single occupancy vehicles that kill the environment and instead invest in public infra" is tyrannical? Oh man, I don't even know where to begin. I'm sorry, if I'm not misunderstanding it's just hilarious.
advisedwang 4y ago
Having a bad experience when you are in a car is an natural result of mass-transit/walking oriented cities. By focusing on non-car transport, you are going to end up sacrificing things that are good for car tansport. In fact logically car must be the worse experience if we're expecting folks to make other choices.
- ars 4y ago
  And yet, somehow not a single city has managed to make public transport better than a car. The only thing they've managed is to make car transport worse, and then public transport seems better by comparison. Why are we devoting so much energy to making people unhappy?
  - wollsmoth 4y ago
    In NYC a car is definitely more trouble than it's worth for a lot of us. I think the same is probably true in cities with a well functioning train system.
    - ars 4y ago
      The number of car owners in NYC tells me that this isn't true. If even in NYC people still want a car, even with all the trouble, what does that tell you about public transport? And I'm speaking from experience here - I have a ton of friends in NYC who all started without a car "who needs it", and over time every single one bought a car because it's simply too hard without it. NYC is simply too dense, people need space, there's no reason to jam them all in small homes with little space. Although I suppose some people like that.
      - wollsmoth 4y ago
        I'm also speaking from experience. Anecdotally I know a couple people with cars and both are kinda deep in Queens. In a pinch I can rent, but 95% of the time the subway works. In some cases a cab/uber is a time saver or helps move something heavy. Parking is expensive, or you're spending a lot of time looking for a spot. Time is money. What exactly is "too hard" without a car in NYC? Check out this sweet map: https://edc.nyc/article/new-yorkers-and-their-cars https://edc.nyc/article/new-yorkers-and-their-cars
stoplying1 4y ago
- yrgulation 4y ago
  Assuming that i am in favour of cars in cities is plain wrong. Barcelona still having traffic means public transport is not great, even if it looks good, and the so called superblocks are not of much help either. I am for solving traffic and pollution issues but not following barcelonas example.
qaq 4y ago
as compared to ?
TulliusCicero 4y ago
Yeah, now look at LA, which invested into just cars for decades, their traffic is great*! * If by great you mean second worst in the country https://www.lamag.com/article/los-angeles-traffic/ https://www.lamag.com/article/los-angeles-traffic/

Not worse that before and, anyway, who cares? This is about making people lives better not improving car traffic. Two goals that, in my opinion, are in opposition.

yrgulation 4y ago
Point is they havent made people’s lives easier since so many still need to drive cars. Barcelona is anything but a good example of how things should be.
- danuker 4y ago
  Citation needed, for all three of your claims.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    I am citing myself as i’ve been there for a while and its absolutely horrible.
    - danuker 4y ago
      Google public transport directions show me it's 2x as slower than cars, but 4x faster than walking from the airport to Sargada Familia. In my city in Romania, public transport is about the same speed as walking. So I'd say Barcelona has great public transport, based on this limited analysis. Hence, citations neede. What exactly was bad? Did you only try driving?
      - yrgulation 4y ago
        I mean compared to romania, particularly to poorly managed cities such as cluj napoca indeed barceona’s public transport is a blessing. But unfortunately locals dont commute to sagrada familia on a daily basis. Commuting to and from el prat or other office areas is a nightmare, as is reaching to smaller businesses around town. Pulling out stats without actually having been there is misleading as you risk thinking everyone is a tourist taking trains to attractions on the regular, which is what most public transport was designed for - its basically their economy so naturally it will be biased towards that.
        danuker 4y ago
        Fair point. From El Prat to where, do you think would be a fair analysis?
        RobertoG 4y ago
        El Prat is not Barcelona, and, still, you have train, metro, public and private bus as an option to arrive from downtown. The idea that public transport has been designed for tourists is preposterous. The network of public transport extend far away from the touristic places. Most tourist, and most expats in my experience (I'm thinking in those that don't bother to learn any local language), stay in three or four neighborhoods and think that that's the city and get their impressions from those few areas. That's the reason you always hear the same histories: pickpockets (stealing from tourists), dirty (drunk tourist peeing in the streets), etc
      - midoridensha 4y ago
        >Google public transport directions show me it's 2x as slower than cars, but 4x faster than walking from the airport to Sargada Familia. ... So I'd say Barcelona has great public transport, based on this limited analysis. That doesn't sound all that great to me. Here in Tokyo, driving is generally not significantly faster than public transit, though of course it can vary a lot depending on your two endpoints. And of course, if you add in time to find parking, that usually makes driving very unattractive (though this doesn't affect taxis of course, so those can be attractive for some routes if you have tons of money you want to waste because they're not cheap).
- RobertoG 4y ago
  The point is totally wrong. Most people that live on those areas are pretty happy with the changes, and people that is just passing around those areas are pretty happy too. By the way, you don't need a car if you live and work in Barcelona. In fact, most people that own a car don't use it if they are moving inside the city.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    Issue tho is that barcelona has plenty of satellite towns and villages, so your comment proves my point. What i want is an actual solution that takes people out of their cars in a meaningful way, not just hippies that have no other choice due to poverty. Proper public transport is in everyone’s interest.
    - RobertoG 4y ago
      I fail to see how my comment proves your point and I fail to see how this comment improves your previous argument.

cammikebrown 4y ago

Why would you ever drive in such a city? The public transit is fantastic.

polskibus 4y ago
Actually the metro is horrible in the summer, as if there was no ventilation.
- betaby 4y ago
  Which line exactly? Visited Barcelona in august - don't remember ventilation issues.
  - stoplying1 4y ago
    Yeah, I was there in the height of the heatwave 3 years ago. Walking and transit was fine.
  - ErneX 4y ago
    Old lines mostly, like the 1 (red)
  - stevenwoo 4y ago
    Some of the lines are extremely uncomfortable in summer afternoon (was there July 2019 and there was a heat wave for a week with temps of over 100 F), but that was record setting at the time and I was only a tourist.
  - polskibus 4y ago
    I used mostly red this year, sometimes the green one too. Much worse than Valencia for example.
- weatherlight 4y ago
  The Barcelona Metro is fine. I used it all summer with no issue, trains come ever 4 minutes and the each car is ventilated and air-conditioned
4y ago

Daishiman 4y ago

The point isn’t to make it easier for traffic.

xwkd 4y ago

My assumption is that if you are ideologically opposed to private vehicular transportation, then you see this as a good incentive not to own a car. I think things like this are a funny marriage of utopian and tyrannical daydreams.

RobertoG 4y ago
The idea that you can drive your car to my street, generating noise and contamination and park it there using space, where the kids could be playing, just because you can't be bothered to take a bus is kind of tyrannical too, in my opinion. And it has nothing of utopian.
- lotsoweiners 4y ago
  Park in front of my house all you want. I have a big backyard my kids can play in and wouldn't ever want them playing out front unsupervised regardless cars or not.
  - stoplying1 4y ago
    Man, I wonder what its like to post this unironically, and not realize what a complete knob you are. You sure did seem to make it though your kids growing up in an isolated sandbox environment. Really evokes some stupid philosophical thoughts I have about "reproducability", free will, and the human experience. But you clearly have it thought through. Lucky kids.
stoplying1 4y ago
"we want to prioritize walking over huge single occupancy vehicles that kill the environment and instead invest in public infra" is tyrannical? Oh man, I don't even know where to begin. I'm sorry, if I'm not misunderstanding it's just hilarious.

advisedwang 4y ago

Having a bad experience when you are in a car is an natural result of mass-transit/walking oriented cities. By focusing on non-car transport, you are going to end up sacrificing things that are good for car tansport. In fact logically car must be the worse experience if we're expecting folks to make other choices.

ars 4y ago
And yet, somehow not a single city has managed to make public transport better than a car. The only thing they've managed is to make car transport worse, and then public transport seems better by comparison. Why are we devoting so much energy to making people unhappy?
- wollsmoth 4y ago
  In NYC a car is definitely more trouble than it's worth for a lot of us. I think the same is probably true in cities with a well functioning train system.
  - ars 4y ago
    The number of car owners in NYC tells me that this isn't true. If even in NYC people still want a car, even with all the trouble, what does that tell you about public transport? And I'm speaking from experience here - I have a ton of friends in NYC who all started without a car "who needs it", and over time every single one bought a car because it's simply too hard without it. NYC is simply too dense, people need space, there's no reason to jam them all in small homes with little space. Although I suppose some people like that.
    - wollsmoth 4y ago
      I'm also speaking from experience. Anecdotally I know a couple people with cars and both are kinda deep in Queens. In a pinch I can rent, but 95% of the time the subway works. In some cases a cab/uber is a time saver or helps move something heavy. Parking is expensive, or you're spending a lot of time looking for a spot. Time is money. What exactly is "too hard" without a car in NYC? Check out this sweet map: https://edc.nyc/article/new-yorkers-and-their-cars https://edc.nyc/article/new-yorkers-and-their-cars

stoplying1 4y ago

yrgulation 4y ago
Assuming that i am in favour of cars in cities is plain wrong. Barcelona still having traffic means public transport is not great, even if it looks good, and the so called superblocks are not of much help either. I am for solving traffic and pollution issues but not following barcelonas example.

qaq 4y ago

as compared to ?

TulliusCicero 4y ago

Yeah, now look at LA, which invested into just cars for decades, their traffic is great*! * If by great you mean second worst in the country https://www.lamag.com/article/los-angeles-traffic/ https://www.lamag.com/article/los-angeles-traffic/