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Texas Roofer Arrested in Florida for Helping Hurricane Victims
- smileysteve 4y agoReasons why licensing is good - liability coverage - not a con artist - work meets code Reasons it's bad - protectionism
- abfan1127 4y agoI've seen a ton of "licensed" contractor work that didn't meet code. Licensing doesn't guarantee your bullet list.
- s1artibartfast 4y agoBut at least it provides an avenue for recourse against bad actors. Licensing should be simple and easy to obtain. "Per the article, "It takes four years to get licensed for a variety of residential and commercial construction work in Florida, according to data collected by the Institute for Justice." This should be a simple knowledge test, and perhaps an inspection of their work product.
- jhoechtl 4y ago> Licensing should be simple and easy to obtain. In a developed country like Austria this means taking at least three years of education and passing an exam in front of representatives of the chamber of commerce. It's nowhere simple in order to keep the scammers out.
- s1artibartfast 4y agoI think pretty much any licensing with educational component is either regulatory capture or safety theater. There should always be an option to test out of it if you can demonstrate acceptable knowledge and work product. I care about their Baseline knowledge and the quality of their work. The time and ability to pay for classes demonstrates neither
- tzs 4y agoMost of the licenses that the article is referring to that take four years don't have any educational requirement. They take four years because they require that you have four years (or equivalent) or work experience. Here are the license requirements: 1. Four years work experience or equivalent in the particular field you are trying to get licensed in. Some of the work experience can be replaced with college classes from an accredited program. 2. Passing an exam (or 2 exams for a few specialities). To give an idea of what such exams are like, here are descriptions of the exams you have to pass fir a gypsum drywall contractor license. 2A. Gypsum drywall trade knowledge exam. 5 hours, 80 questions, open book covering topics such as gypsum and gypsum wallboard installations, taping and texturing, metal stud walls and ceiling grid systems, and special applications. More details on what is covered here [1]. 2B. Business and finance exam. 6.5 hours, 120 questions, open book covering topics such as establishing a contracting business, managing administrative duties, managing trade operations, accounting stuff, managing human resources, and complying with regulations. Here's more detail [2]. [1] http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/servop/testing/documents/gypsum_eci.pdf http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/servop/testing/document... [2] http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/servop/testing/documents/bus_fin_eci.pdf http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/servop/testing/document...
- lostlogin 4y agoThe point is to raise the bar. Many professions require audits, reviews, professional development and examples or tests etc etc in order to keep registration.
- aidenn0 4y agoEvery single contractor I've ever contracted had legalese in the contract that permits were the owners responsibility, and typically if they knew you weren't pulling permits, corners were cut on the work. I now always get permits on the work for this reason even though it easily doubles the amount of time for the work to get done (because e.g. you need to wait, sometimes many days, for an inspector to show up before drywalling over electrical or plumbing work).
- newaccount74 4y agoWhat should be prosecuted: - missing liability insurance - scamming people - work that doesn't meet code What gets prosecuted: - work that's done without necessary license
- muaytimbo 4y agoTwo additional plainly stated reasons in the article suggest licensing "is bad" that you left out of this bulleted list are: competitive pricing, supply responding to demand surge (indeed the entire reason the article was written).
- dctoedt 4y agoThe article points out that Florida is NOT one of the states with licensing reciprocity.
- Kon-Peki 4y agoExcept for real estate licensing. Florida allows real estate agents from most northern states to bring a buyer into Florida and collect their share of the commission.
- cool_dude85 4y agoA lot of very exploitative people come into disaster areas. Contractors in times like these have the ability to ask for payment in advance. My own family was a victim of just such a scam after Andrew - pay in advance and disappear. I'm glad Florida is taking requirements for licensing seriously.
- Clent 4y agoIf people wouldn't go insane at the idea, the government should provide lists of contractors, and a public record of what work they've done, and allow homeowner's to cross reference contact data with with family, friends, neighbors. It's a pity that we cannot trust each other enough to pool our data for our common good.
- lostlogin 4y agoYou are not wrong. This will somehow be characterised as ‘death lists’ or some such crap.
- giantg2 4y agoIn theory that's not necessary. Contractors are supposed to be licensed and you can research any complaints against them through the licensing board, BBB, etc. And cross-referencing with neighbors etc already happens in the form of referrals. If people aren't going to use the current resources, those same people won't use the new one.
- wingspar 4y agoIsn’t the building permit database, which is publicly available, do that?
- JoeAltmaier 4y agoDon't we? Most states have reciprocal licensing agreements, which I presume you can check. Florida exempts itself from this (sensible) arrangement. Possibly as a protectionist act; possibly to snare licensing fees. But surely not to protect the consumer.
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- Invictus0 4y agoIs there any major difference in licensing requirements between Florida and Texas? I can imagine that if the housing code was dramatically different, then allowing contractors from other states could be an issue.
- yardie 4y agoNot sure about Florida but Miami, Broward, and Palm Beach building codes are notoriously tough due to Hurricane Andrew. Houses, since the 90s, have to adhere to much tougher wind standards than you would find in most of the US. I feel the DBPR made the right call here. An out of state contractor has no business repairing roofs if they are unfamiliar with our building codes.
- googlryas 4y agoA cease and desist seems more reasonable than arresting someone though, especially if there is evidence of a misunderstanding of an emergency order, and no actual malfeasance.
- ScottBev 4y agoUnfortunately, it is a matter of deterrence. A C&D will not get anyone's attention, outside of the recipient. Someone being charged with a felony carrying up to 5 years in jail, will hopefully deter some of the con artists from coming in after a storm. The hordes of "helpers" that come into the state after a storm is ridiculously large. Any deterrence is a good thing.
- traeregan 4y ago+1 for the tough building codes. A family member in the Florida Keys recently had a new home built and the roof is rated for 185mph. I read that: "Part of this initiative was based on the Miami-Dade County Code, which has some of the strictest wind uplift requirements in the country, currently 185 mph for High Velocity Hurricane Zones." That's a category 5 hurricane (and would probably be a 6 if the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Wind Scale had a 6): https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutsshws.php https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutsshws.php This same family member's last house, built in the early '50s, was literally torn to pieces in Hurricane Irma, 2017. The roof ended up in the neighbor's yard about 100ft away. Wild stuff.
- sbilstein 4y agoeveryone, except Reason, knows that scammers descend on disaster areas. who knows if this guy is gonna repair roofs to code? or just rip off desperate families. i lived in florida for 20 years, beware the post-hurricane “helpers”
- imchillyb 4y ago> “Ignorance is not an excuse,” Prummell wrote. “If you are in Charlotte County, doing business with the people of this community, you had better be on the up-and-up and have the appropriate licensing and insurance. These people have been through enough, and I will not allow unlicensed contractors to further victimize them.” > https://floridapolitics.com/archives/562882-florida-sheriff-arrests-texas-roofer-for-attempting-to-work-on-homes-damaged-by-hurricane-ian/ https://floridapolitics.com/archives/562882-florida-sheriff-... I live in FL, and I agree. No license in the state means working under a licensed contractor as a sub-contractor. Ignorance of any law, in any jurisdiction is no excuse for violatinig the law; period.
- bdavisx 4y agoAlternative headline - Illegal Business operator with little to no hurricane building experience arrested before they could do more damage.
- godshatter 4y agoMore damage than a completely demolished roof?
- sparrish 4y agoYes, how about a completely demolished roof and $10k less in your pocket.
- toomuchtodo 4y agoRoofs in Florida run closer to $15k-$20k, FYI. Last dimensional shingle roof I had done was $14k, friend just had a quote for $18k. Fly by night roofers post hurricane are a legit concern. The risk of a complete failure are low, but I have seen poor jobs where a substantial part of the shingles and decking has to be removed and replaced. A possible solution is reciprocal licensing with a supplement demonstrating knowledge and best practices for wind mitigation and hurricane code, as well as a robust bond for failure to complete work to professional standards.
- ithkuil 4y agoA roof that collapses on your heads and kills your family the next year? (Not saying that he would do such a bad job necessarily; just addressing parent's argument that since the roof is demolished you can't do worse than that)
- zajio1am 4y agoIn EU, tradesman with licence in one state could offer services (with some exceptions with special rules like healthcare or finance) in any other states, while it is required just to notify authorities of other states. So it is surprising to me that in USA, licences do not appy to other states.
- stevelasseter 4y agoFlorida has strict building codes due to the extreme winds that are especially important for Roofers. Being and expert roofer in Texas is different than being an expert roofer in Florida and the way that you can proof you know the codes is by getting licensed in the state. There is plenty of work to be done here so we'd appreciate help from other states... but you will need to get licensed in order to prove that you can do the work that will stand up to future storms.
- tzs 4y agoHow about allowing roofers licensed in other states to work temporarily in Florida after a disaster without having to have a Florida license but only if they are working as a subcontractor under a roofer with a Florida license who will supervise the work and make sure it is done to Florida code? If you require the out-of-state workers to actually get licensed in Florida I think that would likely limit the number of out-of-state workers too much. I doubt many out-of-state roofers would bother with the time and money to maintain Florida licenses that they are only going to use on those occasions of a temporary spike in demand due to Florida natural disasters.
- sgent 4y agoThey can do that, and it is how this specific case was handled eventually.
- cudgy 4y agoTexas and Florida are both frequent targets for hurricanes, so I doubt the requirements are that different. Furthermore, there are inspections performed by the local municipalities; proper inspections is where the effort should lie instead of restrictive licensing. Roofs aren’t rocket science.
- sgent 4y agoI think Houston requires some hurricane mitigations, but most of TX doesn't, especially not up to Miami / Dade standards which is required in this county.
- luxuryballs 4y agoHeadline kinda makes it sound like he was working for free, I wonder if they would still have arrested if it was volunteer work.
- dusted 4y agoThis is the same country where people can buy guns in stores and have to pay to go to university or the doctor, so it makes complete sense.