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One thing that’s beautiful about game development is how you can create a fun game from the simplest principal. How complex is the gameplay in a game like a Cel

One thing that’s beautiful about game development is how you can create a fun game from the simplest principal. How complex is the gameplay in a game like a Celeste? Yes, there’s a lot of stylistic polish, but it uses pixel art and doesn’t require pathfinding, save for a few minor sections. And even a game like Celeste is many tiers above what can be enjoyable.

chii 4y ago
Celeste has a huge amount of code dedicated to the proper smooth movements. It requires both knowledge of "physics" simulation, as well as coding methods to get a particular desired outcome (ala, the feeling of responsiveness). It might not be easy for someone without coding experience to create. Have a look at https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/Player.cs https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/...
- kotlin2 4y ago
  A lot of that is polish to make the game feel great. You should play Matty’s game Jumper. The game was made with Game Maker back in the early 2000s, which was targeted to low-code users back then. The game mechanics are very similar to Celeste. Despite the lack of polish, it’s still a very entertaining game.
  - vacuumcl 4y ago
    Not the person you were replying to, but that takes me back! Back in those days I was in early high school and Jumper was one of the games I looked up to when I was learning Game Maker. I completely forgot about it.
- tyleo 4y ago
  Frankly this still doesn’t seem technically challenging. It does seem like a different sort of design challenge though to get all of the little mechanics correct. This isn’t like inventing a new algorithm though. I suspect implementing this is more like constantly iterative tweaks and “feeling out” whether the controls are right. The end result looks complicated but no sort of specialized engineering skill seems necessary to achieve the result. Just grit and design talent.
  - chii 4y ago
    I think you're discounting too much the level of skill that 'grit and talent' requires. Cos it is exactly inventing a new algorithm - just not via mathematical proof or vigorous formality.
- torginus 4y ago
  It's kind of weird how terrible this code is (according to software design 'best practices'). 5k lines in a single file, tons of repetition that could be replaced with more compact code etc. I would think the author was a novice programmer, but looking at the creator's history they've already made Towerfall, another hugely acclaimed game (and one I still play to this day), about 5 years before this was released. Yet the game itself is extremely polished. I kind of have no idea where to take this thought, except that successful auters have very different sensibilities than garden variety programmers.
  - chii 4y ago
    > (according to software design 'best practices') that's because these best practices aren't geared towards producing something good - it's geared towards making something easy to understand for someone else, and easy to maintain when requirements change. It is also designed for the lowest common denominator programmers - so that many can work on the same code base, over a long period of time. For games, none of these goals matter at all.
    - sirtomato 4y ago
      Yep, absolutely. A lot of game code has really big files. Although not exactly the gold standard for code style, the Source Engine does have a significant level of even though almost every file is 1k+ SLOC. Here's the base Source Engine movement code for example: https://github.com/VSES/SourceEngine2007/blob/master/src_main/game/shared/gamemovement.cpp https://github.com/VSES/SourceEngine2007/blob/master/src_mai...
    - torginus 4y ago
      I mean, stuff like this isn't really defensible: switch (index) { case 0: return sound0; case 1: return sound1; case 2: return sound2; case 3: return sound3; case 4: return sound4; }
      - 32gbsd 4y ago
        Look perfectly readable and easy to understand.
opyate 4y ago
> How complex is the gameplay in a game like a Celeste? Here you go: https://twitter.com/MaddyThorson/status/1238338574220546049 https://twitter.com/MaddyThorson/status/1238338574220546049
- solardev 4y ago
  I don't typically enjoy platformers, but as both a gamer and a dev, I really appreciate the amount of polish that went into this!

chii 4y ago

Celeste has a huge amount of code dedicated to the proper smooth movements. It requires both knowledge of "physics" simulation, as well as coding methods to get a particular desired outcome (ala, the feeling of responsiveness). It might not be easy for someone without coding experience to create. Have a look at https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/Player.cs https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/...

kotlin2 4y ago
A lot of that is polish to make the game feel great. You should play Matty’s game Jumper. The game was made with Game Maker back in the early 2000s, which was targeted to low-code users back then. The game mechanics are very similar to Celeste. Despite the lack of polish, it’s still a very entertaining game.
- vacuumcl 4y ago
  Not the person you were replying to, but that takes me back! Back in those days I was in early high school and Jumper was one of the games I looked up to when I was learning Game Maker. I completely forgot about it.
tyleo 4y ago
Frankly this still doesn’t seem technically challenging. It does seem like a different sort of design challenge though to get all of the little mechanics correct. This isn’t like inventing a new algorithm though. I suspect implementing this is more like constantly iterative tweaks and “feeling out” whether the controls are right. The end result looks complicated but no sort of specialized engineering skill seems necessary to achieve the result. Just grit and design talent.
- chii 4y ago
  I think you're discounting too much the level of skill that 'grit and talent' requires. Cos it is exactly inventing a new algorithm - just not via mathematical proof or vigorous formality.
torginus 4y ago
It's kind of weird how terrible this code is (according to software design 'best practices'). 5k lines in a single file, tons of repetition that could be replaced with more compact code etc. I would think the author was a novice programmer, but looking at the creator's history they've already made Towerfall, another hugely acclaimed game (and one I still play to this day), about 5 years before this was released. Yet the game itself is extremely polished. I kind of have no idea where to take this thought, except that successful auters have very different sensibilities than garden variety programmers.
- chii 4y ago
  > (according to software design 'best practices') that's because these best practices aren't geared towards producing something good - it's geared towards making something easy to understand for someone else, and easy to maintain when requirements change. It is also designed for the lowest common denominator programmers - so that many can work on the same code base, over a long period of time. For games, none of these goals matter at all.
  - sirtomato 4y ago
    Yep, absolutely. A lot of game code has really big files. Although not exactly the gold standard for code style, the Source Engine does have a significant level of even though almost every file is 1k+ SLOC. Here's the base Source Engine movement code for example: https://github.com/VSES/SourceEngine2007/blob/master/src_main/game/shared/gamemovement.cpp https://github.com/VSES/SourceEngine2007/blob/master/src_mai...
  - torginus 4y ago
    I mean, stuff like this isn't really defensible: switch (index) { case 0: return sound0; case 1: return sound1; case 2: return sound2; case 3: return sound3; case 4: return sound4; }
    - 32gbsd 4y ago
      Look perfectly readable and easy to understand.

opyate 4y ago

> How complex is the gameplay in a game like a Celeste? Here you go: https://twitter.com/MaddyThorson/status/1238338574220546049 https://twitter.com/MaddyThorson/status/1238338574220546049

solardev 4y ago
I don't typically enjoy platformers, but as both a gamer and a dev, I really appreciate the amount of polish that went into this!