5 ms·

Open source is democratizing video game development

40 points by smartblondeva 4y ago

32gbsd 4y ago
Well ok but people have been making games forever and its still hard to make games on certain platforms. We need to democratize assembly and calculus.
yazzku 4y ago
Let's stop spreading this corporate propaganda. Microsoft's goal is to kill software freedom, and the goal of these Github articles is to give the company a facelift. If open source is democratizing gamedev so much, howcome Microsoft's DirectX is still proprietary? Get the hell out of Github and stop spreading this naivete on HN. https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2022/jun/30/give-up-github-launch/ https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2022/jun/30/give-up-github-la... https://githubcopilotinvestigation.com/ https://githubcopilotinvestigation.com/
- tredre3 4y ago
  > If open source is democratizing gamedev so much, howcome Microsoft's DirectX is still proprietary? DirectX is (and as far as I can tell, always has been) free to use by anyone. Which part of DirectX would you like them to open-source that would improve accessibility?
  - aliqot 4y ago
    none of it. directx is a cope.
JimmyHoke 4y ago
As someone who plays NetHack, The Powder Toy, and Super Tux Kart, I can assure you that open source has already democratized game development.
torginus 4y ago
Lol, what a word salad. What is the thing that's being democratized right now, as opposed to when Unreal or Unity became available (or XNA, or BASIC on the C64), and how is open source involved? Godot, Phaser, etc. have existed for about a decade. From the article: “You don’t necessarily need advanced programming and graphics skills to make a polished and professional game anymore,” Yes you do, if you want to do anything but the most basic asset flip, understanding stuff like pathfinding or computer graphics is not optional.
- kotlin2 4y ago
  One thing that’s beautiful about game development is how you can create a fun game from the simplest principal. How complex is the gameplay in a game like a Celeste? Yes, there’s a lot of stylistic polish, but it uses pixel art and doesn’t require pathfinding, save for a few minor sections. And even a game like Celeste is many tiers above what can be enjoyable.
  - chii 4y ago
    Celeste has a huge amount of code dedicated to the proper smooth movements. It requires both knowledge of "physics" simulation, as well as coding methods to get a particular desired outcome (ala, the feeling of responsiveness). It might not be easy for someone without coding experience to create. Have a look at https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/Player.cs https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/...
    - kotlin2 4y ago
      A lot of that is polish to make the game feel great. You should play Matty’s game Jumper. The game was made with Game Maker back in the early 2000s, which was targeted to low-code users back then. The game mechanics are very similar to Celeste. Despite the lack of polish, it’s still a very entertaining game.
      - vacuumcl 4y ago
norwalkbear 4y ago
Open source actually hurts developers wanting to go "pro" in game dev. It's like writing, anyone can write. But not everyone can make enough money to live off it So you have maximize the roi on your time and investment. I highly highly recommend sticking to a commercial engine like unity, unreal, or even phyres.
andrewmcwatters 4y ago
Off topic: but why do these designers keep using typefaces that have ink traps in them on digital mediums? I get it if you like the way it looks, but it has a purpose and it's so tacky to see. Yuck. On topic: Planimeter publishes Planimeter Game Engine 2D, so if you're interested in game development with a full engine in Lua, check out our work with flagship features like client-side prediction out-of-the-box, network variables on entities, and a sophisticated UI compositor built-in.[1] [1]: https://github.com/Planimeter/game-engine-2d https://github.com/Planimeter/game-engine-2d
mattnewport 4y ago
The article mentions asset stores / packs as part of the democratization but that is also often the biggest barrier to open sourcing games. Solo or small indie developers often rely on asset stores for at least part of their content and that usually means they can't open source their entire game even if they wanted to as licenses for assets usually do not allow for redistribution in this form. If you want to open source a game you generally need to plan for it from the start and only use assets that you fully own or that have licenses that allow redistribution. You can open source just the code but this is limited in what it allows others to do in terms of contributing to or remixing the game. Even learning from the code is limited if you don't have access to the assets such that you can run the code and make changes.
- solardev 4y ago
  It's the id software model, isn't it? Open source the code, allow mods, encourage an ecosystem that anyone can learn from. And if they want the original assets instead of subbing in their own, they can buy a copy of the game and use those with their modified code. They can still distribute their mod and other players of the original game will already have the shared assets. Any new assets can have their own licensing terms. I've run into similar situations with open sourcing non game code too. I can open source the code I wrote, but not branded images and trademarked assets that designers made. So we just subbed the assets with placeholders. Everything still worked, it just looked different. With games, though, that becomes harder when something like a level is both an asset and non trivial to replace, and its design is often more unique than the engine itself. Think something like Portal, which is a joy not necessarily because of the Source engine, but because of the great level design and balance. Just interesting to think about. I'd love to see more open games.
  - mattnewport 4y ago
    It is the id model, and it's not without value, it's just short of what I'd really call an "open source game" since so much of a game is about the assets, levels, etc. and not just the code. I think id's open source code has been great for lots of reasons. I just think there is untapped potential in "fully" open source games where all the assets (including the source assets like Blender files and not just the intermediate formats like .fbx) are open source as well as the code as that makes it easier for people to experiment, learn and remix the content.

40 points by smartblondeva 4y ago

Well ok but people have been making games forever and its still hard to make games on certain platforms. We need to democratize assembly and calculus.

yazzku 4y ago

Let's stop spreading this corporate propaganda. Microsoft's goal is to kill software freedom, and the goal of these Github articles is to give the company a facelift. If open source is democratizing gamedev so much, howcome Microsoft's DirectX is still proprietary? Get the hell out of Github and stop spreading this naivete on HN. https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2022/jun/30/give-up-github-launch/ https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2022/jun/30/give-up-github-la... https://githubcopilotinvestigation.com/ https://githubcopilotinvestigation.com/

tredre3 4y ago
> If open source is democratizing gamedev so much, howcome Microsoft's DirectX is still proprietary? DirectX is (and as far as I can tell, always has been) free to use by anyone. Which part of DirectX would you like them to open-source that would improve accessibility?
- aliqot 4y ago
  none of it. directx is a cope.

JimmyHoke 4y ago

As someone who plays NetHack, The Powder Toy, and Super Tux Kart, I can assure you that open source has already democratized game development.

torginus 4y ago

Lol, what a word salad. What is the thing that's being democratized right now, as opposed to when Unreal or Unity became available (or XNA, or BASIC on the C64), and how is open source involved? Godot, Phaser, etc. have existed for about a decade. From the article: “You don’t necessarily need advanced programming and graphics skills to make a polished and professional game anymore,” Yes you do, if you want to do anything but the most basic asset flip, understanding stuff like pathfinding or computer graphics is not optional.

kotlin2 4y ago
One thing that’s beautiful about game development is how you can create a fun game from the simplest principal. How complex is the gameplay in a game like a Celeste? Yes, there’s a lot of stylistic polish, but it uses pixel art and doesn’t require pathfinding, save for a few minor sections. And even a game like Celeste is many tiers above what can be enjoyable.
- chii 4y ago
  Celeste has a huge amount of code dedicated to the proper smooth movements. It requires both knowledge of "physics" simulation, as well as coding methods to get a particular desired outcome (ala, the feeling of responsiveness). It might not be easy for someone without coding experience to create. Have a look at https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/Player.cs https://github.com/NoelFB/Celeste/blob/master/Source/Player/...
  - kotlin2 4y ago
    A lot of that is polish to make the game feel great. You should play Matty’s game Jumper. The game was made with Game Maker back in the early 2000s, which was targeted to low-code users back then. The game mechanics are very similar to Celeste. Despite the lack of polish, it’s still a very entertaining game.
    - vacuumcl 4y ago

norwalkbear 4y ago

Open source actually hurts developers wanting to go "pro" in game dev. It's like writing, anyone can write. But not everyone can make enough money to live off it So you have maximize the roi on your time and investment. I highly highly recommend sticking to a commercial engine like unity, unreal, or even phyres.

andrewmcwatters 4y ago

Off topic: but why do these designers keep using typefaces that have ink traps in them on digital mediums? I get it if you like the way it looks, but it has a purpose and it's so tacky to see. Yuck. On topic: Planimeter publishes Planimeter Game Engine 2D, so if you're interested in game development with a full engine in Lua, check out our work with flagship features like client-side prediction out-of-the-box, network variables on entities, and a sophisticated UI compositor built-in.[1] [1]: https://github.com/Planimeter/game-engine-2d https://github.com/Planimeter/game-engine-2d

mattnewport 4y ago

The article mentions asset stores / packs as part of the democratization but that is also often the biggest barrier to open sourcing games. Solo or small indie developers often rely on asset stores for at least part of their content and that usually means they can't open source their entire game even if they wanted to as licenses for assets usually do not allow for redistribution in this form. If you want to open source a game you generally need to plan for it from the start and only use assets that you fully own or that have licenses that allow redistribution. You can open source just the code but this is limited in what it allows others to do in terms of contributing to or remixing the game. Even learning from the code is limited if you don't have access to the assets such that you can run the code and make changes.

solardev 4y ago
It's the id software model, isn't it? Open source the code, allow mods, encourage an ecosystem that anyone can learn from. And if they want the original assets instead of subbing in their own, they can buy a copy of the game and use those with their modified code. They can still distribute their mod and other players of the original game will already have the shared assets. Any new assets can have their own licensing terms. I've run into similar situations with open sourcing non game code too. I can open source the code I wrote, but not branded images and trademarked assets that designers made. So we just subbed the assets with placeholders. Everything still worked, it just looked different. With games, though, that becomes harder when something like a level is both an asset and non trivial to replace, and its design is often more unique than the engine itself. Think something like Portal, which is a joy not necessarily because of the Source engine, but because of the great level design and balance. Just interesting to think about. I'd love to see more open games.
- mattnewport 4y ago
  It is the id model, and it's not without value, it's just short of what I'd really call an "open source game" since so much of a game is about the assets, levels, etc. and not just the code. I think id's open source code has been great for lots of reasons. I just think there is untapped potential in "fully" open source games where all the assets (including the source assets like Blender files and not just the intermediate formats like .fbx) are open source as well as the code as that makes it easier for people to experiment, learn and remix the content.