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Why would you not choose this over what prison is currently like? This is like asking whether people would prefer home confinement to being in a prison cell

pwinnski 4y ago
You're halfway there. Now consider: why are people paying to put themselves in a light-security prison?
- MerelyMortal 4y ago
  Because they don't recognize it will become a prison, or even if they do, they rationize it by saying it's not currently a prison.
nostrademons 4y ago
Interestingly the state has an incentive to take this approach too: it's much cheaper. If you can monitor & enforce confinement without actually building any prisons, you don't need to budget for prisons, you don't need to operate prisons (or contract out to them), and you can avoid the political blowback of the prison/industrial complex. The limiting case for this is the Matrix or Metaverse, where everybody voluntarily confines themselves to their home and interacts with each other only according to the rules of the governing software. No possibility for crime because there are no unmediated interactions, and the state has total control.
- radicaldreamer 4y ago
  The state, unfortunately, does not have a great incentive to reduce costs; especially since a lot of prisons are run by for-profit entities.
  - staticautomatic 4y ago
    …that are paid by the state.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      ... and who pay politicians large sums of money to keep it that way.
    - colpabar 4y ago
      The state is just people though, and people like money. It's pretty naive to think that the politicians in charge of this stuff don't get huge kickbacks from private prison operators.
- ericmay 4y ago
  This is just called house arrest. It’s not really prison or punishment if I’m comfortable at home.
  - 1123581321 4y ago
    House arrest serves one of prison’s purposes, reduction of danger to others. It may also be a suitable place from which to rehabilitate.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    It's still punishment to not be allowed to leave your home. Not as uncomfortable as prison, obviously. But this gets into whether the main goal of prison is to cause physical discomfort as punishment or to protect society. When you look at the routine nature of beatings and rape in prisons, whether or not you are okay with people receiving that as punishment you have to admit that those aren't the punishments prescribed by law. The law doesn't say that a prison must make the prisoner suffer physically (in fact, it mostly says the opposite, but that's generally ignored). And one man's punishment is another's delight. There are criminals who thrive all too well in prison at the expense of others less well connected. For them, being locked at home might be the greater punishment.
    - ericmay 4y ago
      Prison reform is possible. While I certainly sympathize with the aspect of reform for prison, it seems unpalatable to me to not punish, say, someone who rapes a child or with complete disrespect for the law and other people and breaks into homes or smashes car windows to basically be told to hang out and watch TV and “reform” at home with pamphlets or asinine internet courses from a state-provided computer. Parole, probation, house arrest, etc. are tools we have to provide more leniency at the discretion of a judge as appropriate. And there are different levels of prisons to be considered here as well. Rehab can occur while in prison too. But in addition to reforming prisons, we need to solve the problem at its core. Why do people do things that land them in prison in the first place? This is where healthcare, education, and other projects can stop the problem before it starts.
civilized 4y ago
But Big Tech is involved, so we are expected to be enraged. Well, I can easily one-up this. The Agricultural Revolution was a mistake. We should have remained hunter gatherers. (Lots of people believe this, or claim to)
sangnoir 4y ago
> Why would you not choose this over what prison is currently like? Because there would be no upper limit to the number of people you can imprison - limited space in prisons provides vital societal back-pressure on which crimes are considered serious enough for custodial sentences. In general, the inefficiencies in the justice system are good because they force prioritization. What would be the impact on society if crime detection, deliberation and rulings were all automated?

pwinnski 4y ago

You're halfway there. Now consider: why are people paying to put themselves in a light-security prison?

MerelyMortal 4y ago
Because they don't recognize it will become a prison, or even if they do, they rationize it by saying it's not currently a prison.

nostrademons 4y ago

Interestingly the state has an incentive to take this approach too: it's much cheaper. If you can monitor & enforce confinement without actually building any prisons, you don't need to budget for prisons, you don't need to operate prisons (or contract out to them), and you can avoid the political blowback of the prison/industrial complex. The limiting case for this is the Matrix or Metaverse, where everybody voluntarily confines themselves to their home and interacts with each other only according to the rules of the governing software. No possibility for crime because there are no unmediated interactions, and the state has total control.

radicaldreamer 4y ago
The state, unfortunately, does not have a great incentive to reduce costs; especially since a lot of prisons are run by for-profit entities.
- staticautomatic 4y ago
  …that are paid by the state.
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    ... and who pay politicians large sums of money to keep it that way.
  - colpabar 4y ago
    The state is just people though, and people like money. It's pretty naive to think that the politicians in charge of this stuff don't get huge kickbacks from private prison operators.
ericmay 4y ago
This is just called house arrest. It’s not really prison or punishment if I’m comfortable at home.
- 1123581321 4y ago
  House arrest serves one of prison’s purposes, reduction of danger to others. It may also be a suitable place from which to rehabilitate.
- noduerme 4y ago
  It's still punishment to not be allowed to leave your home. Not as uncomfortable as prison, obviously. But this gets into whether the main goal of prison is to cause physical discomfort as punishment or to protect society. When you look at the routine nature of beatings and rape in prisons, whether or not you are okay with people receiving that as punishment you have to admit that those aren't the punishments prescribed by law. The law doesn't say that a prison must make the prisoner suffer physically (in fact, it mostly says the opposite, but that's generally ignored). And one man's punishment is another's delight. There are criminals who thrive all too well in prison at the expense of others less well connected. For them, being locked at home might be the greater punishment.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    Prison reform is possible. While I certainly sympathize with the aspect of reform for prison, it seems unpalatable to me to not punish, say, someone who rapes a child or with complete disrespect for the law and other people and breaks into homes or smashes car windows to basically be told to hang out and watch TV and “reform” at home with pamphlets or asinine internet courses from a state-provided computer. Parole, probation, house arrest, etc. are tools we have to provide more leniency at the discretion of a judge as appropriate. And there are different levels of prisons to be considered here as well. Rehab can occur while in prison too. But in addition to reforming prisons, we need to solve the problem at its core. Why do people do things that land them in prison in the first place? This is where healthcare, education, and other projects can stop the problem before it starts.

civilized 4y ago

But Big Tech is involved, so we are expected to be enraged. Well, I can easily one-up this. The Agricultural Revolution was a mistake. We should have remained hunter gatherers. (Lots of people believe this, or claim to)

sangnoir 4y ago

> Why would you not choose this over what prison is currently like? Because there would be no upper limit to the number of people you can imprison - limited space in prisons provides vital societal back-pressure on which crimes are considered serious enough for custodial sentences. In general, the inefficiencies in the justice system are good because they force prioritization. What would be the impact on society if crime detection, deliberation and rulings were all automated?