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> You can literally flip the O and H and change the “what makes me happy” part to get the opposite side’s point of view. No. The points of view are not equal a

> You can literally flip the O and H and change the “what makes me happy” part to get the opposite side’s point of view. No. The points of view are not equal and opposite. Some people who advocate WFO do so because they just want to work in an office (for various reaons) and they don't care how many co-workers do the same. But others want other people to also be present in the office to create the environment that they desire. People who advocate WFH have similarly varied motivations, but none of their motivations require other people to change their behaviour.

robbie-c 4y ago
It just seems like those people should work at different companies. Having a mix of people who prefer WFO and WFH seems like the worst of both worlds. (WFO people don't get the atmosphere that they desire, WFH people are second-class citizens for collaborative activites, WFH seniors have reduced ability to mentor their juniors, WFH people still need to live a commutable distance from the office).
- throw827474737 4y ago
  > WFH seniors have reduced ability to mentor their juniors Why is that? I find screen-share mentoring on dev stuff that more fruitful I stuck to that even when forced back into office. Less covid, less other awkward closeness, better for ears and eyes :) (Admitted, only non-computer-work mentoring is different).
  - SpikyBlackHard 4y ago
    Perhaps it is because the mentoring activity has a barrier now. Scheduling a time, putting aside other activities,and even having to say hey guy, can I bother you for a "session".... Well, sometimes all Jr needed was a two minute leg-up, even a 30 second orientation, development of an in-joke, whatever. So he never bothered, and had to spend 45 minutes figuring it out as though he was alone.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    > Why is that? I believe it's because coworkers rarely talk about non work stuff when they are WFH. Maybe it's just my company, but when we were in office I felt everyone on the team had some sort of relationship with each other because we'd eat lunch or talk about sports, or even the weather. Now we pretty much only talk about work stuff, which ends up meaning we silo more and collaborate less.
    - throw827474737 4y ago
      That's a cultural (your?) problem (as well as the other responses) and not excluded per se by remote. Some people seem to be more shy virtually, for others it is the other way round?
  - SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
    One big category that's missing is the quick, informal after meeting sync. When we were in the office, after big meetings, I would usually chat with my juniors about what happened. What went well and what went poorly, the general theory of how those kinds of meetings work, that kind of thing. That's much harder to do now, so I mostly don't, and as a result our post-Covid newbies are generally worse at running meetings.
tsimionescu 4y ago
> People who advocate WFH have similarly varied motivations, but none of their motivations require other people to change their behaviour. Of course it does. Some people who WFH will want things like no mixed meetings - either everyone is in the same room, or everyone is entering the meeting from their own computer - there's an example in this very thread. And even if you don't go that far, there are various smaller ways everyone must adapt their behavior to properly support hybrid work modes, just like WFO-only or WFH-only.

robbie-c 4y ago

It just seems like those people should work at different companies. Having a mix of people who prefer WFO and WFH seems like the worst of both worlds. (WFO people don't get the atmosphere that they desire, WFH people are second-class citizens for collaborative activites, WFH seniors have reduced ability to mentor their juniors, WFH people still need to live a commutable distance from the office).

throw827474737 4y ago
> WFH seniors have reduced ability to mentor their juniors Why is that? I find screen-share mentoring on dev stuff that more fruitful I stuck to that even when forced back into office. Less covid, less other awkward closeness, better for ears and eyes :) (Admitted, only non-computer-work mentoring is different).
- SpikyBlackHard 4y ago
  Perhaps it is because the mentoring activity has a barrier now. Scheduling a time, putting aside other activities,and even having to say hey guy, can I bother you for a "session".... Well, sometimes all Jr needed was a two minute leg-up, even a 30 second orientation, development of an in-joke, whatever. So he never bothered, and had to spend 45 minutes figuring it out as though he was alone.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  > Why is that? I believe it's because coworkers rarely talk about non work stuff when they are WFH. Maybe it's just my company, but when we were in office I felt everyone on the team had some sort of relationship with each other because we'd eat lunch or talk about sports, or even the weather. Now we pretty much only talk about work stuff, which ends up meaning we silo more and collaborate less.
  - throw827474737 4y ago
    That's a cultural (your?) problem (as well as the other responses) and not excluded per se by remote. Some people seem to be more shy virtually, for others it is the other way round?
- SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
  One big category that's missing is the quick, informal after meeting sync. When we were in the office, after big meetings, I would usually chat with my juniors about what happened. What went well and what went poorly, the general theory of how those kinds of meetings work, that kind of thing. That's much harder to do now, so I mostly don't, and as a result our post-Covid newbies are generally worse at running meetings.

tsimionescu 4y ago

> People who advocate WFH have similarly varied motivations, but none of their motivations require other people to change their behaviour. Of course it does. Some people who WFH will want things like no mixed meetings - either everyone is in the same room, or everyone is entering the meeting from their own computer - there's an example in this very thread. And even if you don't go that far, there are various smaller ways everyone must adapt their behavior to properly support hybrid work modes, just like WFO-only or WFH-only.