6 ms·

You can literally flip the O and H and change the “what makes me happy” part to get the opposite side’s point of view.

sixhobbits 4y ago
But in liberalism my wish to not be in another individual's company strongly trumps their desire to be in my company
bodge5000 4y ago
But as I said, its about choice. The WFH crowd are unhappy if they don't get a choice in where they work. The WFO crowd are unhappy if others DO get a choice of where they work. Or to put it another way, one side are unhappy if they're forced to do something they don't want to, the other is unhappy if the first are not forced to do something they don't want to do.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  That's not the be-all, end-all. A previously WFO-only team must make various adjustments to become a successful hybrid team, so even just one WFH team-member will be unhappy if the entire rest of the team doesn't change their behavior in pertain ways (e.g. renouncing ad-hoc team meetings over coffee, or in-person whiteboarding).
andyjohnson0 4y ago
> You can literally flip the O and H and change the “what makes me happy” part to get the opposite side’s point of view. No. The points of view are not equal and opposite. Some people who advocate WFO do so because they just want to work in an office (for various reaons) and they don't care how many co-workers do the same. But others want other people to also be present in the office to create the environment that they desire. People who advocate WFH have similarly varied motivations, but none of their motivations require other people to change their behaviour.
- robbie-c 4y ago
  It just seems like those people should work at different companies. Having a mix of people who prefer WFO and WFH seems like the worst of both worlds. (WFO people don't get the atmosphere that they desire, WFH people are second-class citizens for collaborative activites, WFH seniors have reduced ability to mentor their juniors, WFH people still need to live a commutable distance from the office).
  - throw827474737 4y ago
    > WFH seniors have reduced ability to mentor their juniors Why is that? I find screen-share mentoring on dev stuff that more fruitful I stuck to that even when forced back into office. Less covid, less other awkward closeness, better for ears and eyes :) (Admitted, only non-computer-work mentoring is different).
    - SpikyBlackHard 4y ago
      Perhaps it is because the mentoring activity has a barrier now. Scheduling a time, putting aside other activities,and even having to say hey guy, can I bother you for a "session".... Well, sometimes all Jr needed was a two minute leg-up, even a 30 second orientation, development of an in-joke, whatever. So he never bothered, and had to spend 45 minutes figuring it out as though he was alone.
    - colinmhayes 4y ago
      > Why is that? I believe it's because coworkers rarely talk about non work stuff when they are WFH. Maybe it's just my company, but when we were in office I felt everyone on the team had some sort of relationship with each other because we'd eat lunch or talk about sports, or even the weather. Now we pretty much only talk about work stuff, which ends up meaning we silo more and collaborate less.
      - throw827474737 4y ago
        That's a cultural (your?) problem (as well as the other responses) and not excluded per se by remote. Some people seem to be more shy virtually, for others it is the other way round?

But in liberalism my wish to not be in another individual's company strongly trumps their desire to be in my company

But as I said, its about choice. The WFH crowd are unhappy if they don't get a choice in where they work. The WFO crowd are unhappy if others DO get a choice of where they work. Or to put it another way, one side are unhappy if they're forced to do something they don't want to, the other is unhappy if the first are not forced to do something they don't want to do.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tsimionescu 4y ago
That's not the be-all, end-all. A previously WFO-only team must make various adjustments to become a successful hybrid team, so even just one WFH team-member will be unhappy if the entire rest of the team doesn't change their behavior in pertain ways (e.g. renouncing ad-hoc team meetings over coffee, or in-person whiteboarding).

andyjohnson0 4y ago

> You can literally flip the O and H and change the “what makes me happy” part to get the opposite side’s point of view. No. The points of view are not equal and opposite. Some people who advocate WFO do so because they just want to work in an office (for various reaons) and they don't care how many co-workers do the same. But others want other people to also be present in the office to create the environment that they desire. People who advocate WFH have similarly varied motivations, but none of their motivations require other people to change their behaviour.

robbie-c 4y ago
It just seems like those people should work at different companies. Having a mix of people who prefer WFO and WFH seems like the worst of both worlds. (WFO people don't get the atmosphere that they desire, WFH people are second-class citizens for collaborative activites, WFH seniors have reduced ability to mentor their juniors, WFH people still need to live a commutable distance from the office).
- throw827474737 4y ago
  > WFH seniors have reduced ability to mentor their juniors Why is that? I find screen-share mentoring on dev stuff that more fruitful I stuck to that even when forced back into office. Less covid, less other awkward closeness, better for ears and eyes :) (Admitted, only non-computer-work mentoring is different).
  - SpikyBlackHard 4y ago
    Perhaps it is because the mentoring activity has a barrier now. Scheduling a time, putting aside other activities,and even having to say hey guy, can I bother you for a "session".... Well, sometimes all Jr needed was a two minute leg-up, even a 30 second orientation, development of an in-joke, whatever. So he never bothered, and had to spend 45 minutes figuring it out as though he was alone.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    > Why is that? I believe it's because coworkers rarely talk about non work stuff when they are WFH. Maybe it's just my company, but when we were in office I felt everyone on the team had some sort of relationship with each other because we'd eat lunch or talk about sports, or even the weather. Now we pretty much only talk about work stuff, which ends up meaning we silo more and collaborate less.
    - throw827474737 4y ago
      That's a cultural (your?) problem (as well as the other responses) and not excluded per se by remote. Some people seem to be more shy virtually, for others it is the other way round?