6 ms·

Five hours' sleep is tipping point for bad health

100 points by dustedcodes 4y ago

chris_wot 4y ago
I recently got a CPAP machine. A sleep study showed I stopped breathing an average of 72 times an hour. I can’t imagine what sort of damage it has done to me.
- wolfium3 4y ago
  Scary! How does the treatment for such a condition/situation even work?
  - vkou 4y ago
    You buy a machine that pushes air into your lungs while you sleep. You then spend the first half hour of the each morning feeling like shit as you try to get all the air that went down the wrong pipe out of your stomach. (Yes, that's what happens after sleep doctors have done multiple passes of calibration on it. They are doctors, they aren't wizards.)
    - diob 4y ago
      I don't really have this issue after swapping to a nose only mask (previous was mouth + nose), although I know those aren't for everyone. Worth a try if you haven't, I love the resmed nose pillows. My pressure is around 13.5 for reference, so your own mileage may vary.
    - chris_wot 4y ago
      I luckily haven’t had that… I have had some dry mouth though. I do feel more refreshed so I think it is definitely helpful. In NSW, Australia, if you have a CPAP machine you can tell your electricity company (a doctor fills in a form) and they cannot disconnect your electricity for non-payment, and the government pays a small rebate. Just in case anyone else from my state is reading this :-)
- diob 4y ago
  I'm with you, mine was about 79 when I finally got a sleep study. Happy I have it sorted, but pretty worried what 10 years of that did to me. Mine is anatomy btw, a lot of folks assume I'm obese (even the folks I went to get my cpap from when they saw my AHI) but I'm one of those unfortunate athletic folks. I wish I had the route of losing weight open to me, but I'm still thankful technology is advanced enough to save me from an earlier death. That and being able to live without daily headaches anymore, or falling asleep driving, etc. Probably going to get some sort of mental issue later in life though due to the earlier damage. Ah well.
  - chris_wot 4y ago
    Same gear - I have what they call a “floppy epiglottis”. I’m certain my mental health would probably be better with a better night’s sleep. Having only really started using the machine, here’s hoping! Hope it’s helping you. Once I get some proper sleep I’m going to look into more exercise - which is surprisingly hard to do when you always feel tired.
    - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
      > I’m going to look into more exercise - which is surprisingly hard to do when you always feel tired. I've recently-ish started a regular, albeit quite light, weights routine. Strangely (or maybe not), feeling tired hasn't at all correlated with my ability to do the same number of reps and sets as when I'm feeling energised. The feeling of tiredness doesn't seem connected to actual muscle fatigue, it seems to be more mental tiredness, and therefore will power, or discipline, or mental strength seems to be more likely what's needed to get into an exercise routine. Ie. Don't let yourself get away with saying that you're too tired, it's likely a different kind of tired than the one that will hold back exercise. I've actually felt less tired coming out of a session than going in (endorphins, adrenaline effects etc.) (with the disclaimer that this is very much a subjective, your-mileage-may-vary kind of situation, and also I'm speaking from entirely outside of your experience of always feeling tired)
  - Ancalagon 4y ago
    Do you mean you have lots of muscle, and that weight is what is causing the apnea? I'm pretty sure I have the same issue. I lost 15-20 lbs of muscle when I lost gym access for 1.5 yrs of COVID, and my girlfriend mentioned my snoring got better. I've gain it all back now though.
- watchdogtimer 4y ago
  Did you try forcing yourself to sleep on your side? I found if I roll onto my back while I sleep I frequently would either snore or stop breathing to the point where it would cause me to wake up. To keep from sleeping on my back, I now put a foam roller under the back of my shirt before I go to bed. It's eliminated my snoring and help me sleep much better. Other people pin a tennis ball to the back of their shirt for the same reason. I bring this up because I think many people are prescribed a CPAP machine to solve their sleep problems when positional therapy would be a more effective, less expensive solution.[1] [1] https://khn.org/news/article/severe-sleep-apnea-diagnosis-panics-reporter-until-he-finds-a-simple-no-cost-solution/ https://khn.org/news/article/severe-sleep-apnea-diagnosis-pa...
  - chris_wot 4y ago
    In my case, I have tried this and it didn’t work. Unfortunately I have what is known as a “floppy epiglottis”, which is what is preventing me from breathing. With the CPAP machine I am definitely getting a better night’s sleep.
- timeu 4y ago
  My father got 3 stents inserted during an angiogram. The reason was most likey that he was suffering from sleep apnea (his breathing stopped around 60 times an hour and his o2 saturation dropped to 50/60) without knowing it. In his case it was central sleep apnea but after he got a CPAP machine his o2 saturation went back up to > 90%. One easy way to check this is to wear a pusle oximater overnight and check the o2 saturation.
gareth_untether 4y ago
There was a time when I was burning the candle at both ends. For some relief I would regularly go and see a Chinese doctor for massage therapies, but they would do a health check that included looking at my tongue. During this time from stress and lack of sleep my tongue was unusually white. The doctor said if I kept my life style I would have a stroke. I listened to the advice and made big life changes. A friend of mine in a similar job sadly didn't receive the same advice and had a stroke. Fixing bad sleep forces you to fix habitual bad patterns. Which in effect helps restore health and ingrain healthy life patterns
- IIAOPSW 4y ago
  how does lack of sleep lead to white tongue? why does it eventually cause a stroke?
  - closewith 4y ago
    Not the OP, but poor sleep duration/quality has a somewhat strong correlation with dehydration, which is a common cause of a white tongue (inflamed papillae). Poor sleep duration/quality is also correlated with hypertension/high blood pressure, which is a risk factor for stroke and heart disease. Not to say that lack of sleep causes a white tongue or stroke, but it is plausible that it could be a sign of chronic sleep insufficiency or dehydration.
    - qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
      Lack of sleep is a big suspect when it comes to dementia accelerators.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
mathieuh 4y ago
I feel markedly worse with anything much less than eight hours' sleep. I find my natural circadian cycle suits waking up very early (04:30) and going to bed very early (20:00). I'm not a productivity bro or anything, I just feel much more rested on these hours.
- diob 4y ago
  I have to do 9 hours or else I'm cranky and unproductive with an incredibly low attention span. My natural sleep is definitely about 1-2 am to 10-11 am unfortunately, which is not very compatible with most jobs. Thank god for remote work and being able to nap though.
  - ChildOfChaos 4y ago
    This is the problem I have, I'm quite similar, but my job doesn't allow it. Working from home has helped me dramatically as I can get up a bit closer to my ideal time, but whenever I have to work from the office, I might as well write off the whole week, it's really hard as most days I need to nap to recover lost sleep. It's a shame society isn't more flexible. It's very much aligned for the early birds and shortish sleep cycles.
    - soco 4y ago
      Because the early bird catches the worm yada yada. It's a fight uphill against the instagram self-care industry gurus telling everybody to cook a healthy breakfast, jog and gym all before work. Of course we late risers aren't that productive at 8am, if you force us outside our productive hours - said guru would be the same lag at 8pm when I'm breezing through code.
      - ChildOfChaos 4y ago
        Yeah exactly. Those people don't seem to realise, it's all the same hours, so getting up earlier doesn't help, going to bed later, does. They think it's some kinda secret but really they are just working with there body clock and cannot impose that on others.
anovikov 4y ago
Can't imagine how it can probably work. I never do less than 9 hours of sleep daily, usually 10 - at least 7 during the night plus a long day nap.
- gambiting 4y ago
  Well, you get a new child, and then you discover that yes, you can have 4-5 hours of sleep each night and then still go to work and do chores and spend time with your partner and do everything else. Children really make you discover things about yourself that you wouldn't think possible :P
  - Elinvynia 4y ago
    This is like an ad for never having children.
    - gambiting 4y ago
      I mean..................yes. It's weird. I love our son, he's literally my pride and joy and I would do anything for him without hesitation. He's genuine pleasure to be around and makes me so happy every day. Having him also made me reconsider the priorities in my life, realize that work isn't as important as I thought and the world will keep turning even if I'm not doing 10 hour days, it's fine. I would rather spend time with him than do pretty much anything else. But at the same time........the sleepless nights, the arguments with your partner(because you are both exhausted and the smallest thing can explode), the financial cost, the stress whenever something isn't right and you're pulling your hair out..........I absolutely 100000% don't want a second one. Nope. Not worth it. So...............take that as you will :-)
      - aconst 4y ago
        I really understand why some people try to pack all their children in as few years as possible. My son came almost 10 years after my daughter, he's still not yet 6 and still very demanding (while my daughter was objectively less, but still I barely slept during 2 or 3 years). I'll die young ^^;
BLKNSLVR 4y ago
I can survive almost a full working week on 5-6 hours a night, but will need a long sleep-in on the weekend to recover. This isn't ideal and not what I aim for, just what I've noticed. Up until my late 20's / early 30's I'd get headaches and be a grump the very next day on less than 6 hours of sleep. I'm glad I'm past that, so I'm not immediately ruined by one bad night, but still need the eternal discipline for maintaining a routine for long term health.
null_object 4y ago
I think a lot of people are being kept awake worrying about these types of articles.
Barrin92 4y ago
Rings personally true for me. I can do fine on five hours for quite a while although it's somewhat tiring, while six is usually enough for me generally. Same for my father who always has slept relatively little. What I'd really like to see is more research into individual variance. I felt quite guilty about my sleep habits because people kept going on about eight hours. A few years ago there was a book about this that made the tours on every news show until it was torn apart for making half of its content up.
marginalia_nu 4y ago
I feel that while I can subsist on not-a-lot-of-sleep, I also definitely become a bit of an idiot if I do. I make dumb mistakes, I struggle to make connections, I make poor choices, and overall kinda feel like shit.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
IYasha 4y ago
True, but what if life demands? :_(
notacoward 4y ago
Probably worth noting that an individual's need for sleep can change in both the short and long term. There are oodles of studies on how sleep need changes as we age, so I won't even go into that. What I've been noticing the last couple of years is the short term variability. I'll go through weeks or months when sleeping six or seven hours feels great, and more than that actually makes me feel worse. Then I'll go through weeks or months when it has to be eight or nine or I'm half dead. Lather, rinse, repeat. The key, I guess, is to pay attention to your tiredness levels and be prepared to try different things when the current sleep regime doesn't seem to be working. Instead of saying "X hours is what works for me" learn the signs of being overtired and react dynamically.
- feet 4y ago
  It's almost like life is dynamic and constantly changing. Who would have thought
jjk166 4y ago
This seems more like correlation than causation. I would expect the people whose lifestyles allow them to regularly get good sleep are also the people who are in a good position to avoid various health problems compared to say someone working 3 jobs to make ends meet or someone clubbing till 3 am regularly. Certainly in their data, people with less than 5 hours per night of sleep were disproportionately in lower career positions, less educated, minorities, people with lower levels of fruit consumption, very high or very low BMI, current smokers, and more likely to have hypertension. These specific factors were adjusted for, but the paper does not say how that adjustment was made or what the difference in the results is before and after the adjustment. I also found it interesting that, in the reverse of most of the other factors, a disproportionate number of those who get less than 5 hours of sleep don't consume alcohol (or at least reported 0 for their average weekly consumption). Also it's weird that those sleeping less than 5 hours and those who sleep more than 9 hours seem to share the same socio-demographic characteristics.
flashgordon 4y ago
Damn it I know how bad this is and I still can't help myself getting active with side projects late into the night. I desperately need to find a way to break the cycle :(

100 points by dustedcodes 4y ago

I recently got a CPAP machine. A sleep study showed I stopped breathing an average of 72 times an hour. I can’t imagine what sort of damage it has done to me.

wolfium3 4y ago
Scary! How does the treatment for such a condition/situation even work?
- vkou 4y ago
  You buy a machine that pushes air into your lungs while you sleep. You then spend the first half hour of the each morning feeling like shit as you try to get all the air that went down the wrong pipe out of your stomach. (Yes, that's what happens after sleep doctors have done multiple passes of calibration on it. They are doctors, they aren't wizards.)
  - diob 4y ago
    I don't really have this issue after swapping to a nose only mask (previous was mouth + nose), although I know those aren't for everyone. Worth a try if you haven't, I love the resmed nose pillows. My pressure is around 13.5 for reference, so your own mileage may vary.
  - chris_wot 4y ago
    I luckily haven’t had that… I have had some dry mouth though. I do feel more refreshed so I think it is definitely helpful. In NSW, Australia, if you have a CPAP machine you can tell your electricity company (a doctor fills in a form) and they cannot disconnect your electricity for non-payment, and the government pays a small rebate. Just in case anyone else from my state is reading this :-)
diob 4y ago
I'm with you, mine was about 79 when I finally got a sleep study. Happy I have it sorted, but pretty worried what 10 years of that did to me. Mine is anatomy btw, a lot of folks assume I'm obese (even the folks I went to get my cpap from when they saw my AHI) but I'm one of those unfortunate athletic folks. I wish I had the route of losing weight open to me, but I'm still thankful technology is advanced enough to save me from an earlier death. That and being able to live without daily headaches anymore, or falling asleep driving, etc. Probably going to get some sort of mental issue later in life though due to the earlier damage. Ah well.
- chris_wot 4y ago
  Same gear - I have what they call a “floppy epiglottis”. I’m certain my mental health would probably be better with a better night’s sleep. Having only really started using the machine, here’s hoping! Hope it’s helping you. Once I get some proper sleep I’m going to look into more exercise - which is surprisingly hard to do when you always feel tired.
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    > I’m going to look into more exercise - which is surprisingly hard to do when you always feel tired. I've recently-ish started a regular, albeit quite light, weights routine. Strangely (or maybe not), feeling tired hasn't at all correlated with my ability to do the same number of reps and sets as when I'm feeling energised. The feeling of tiredness doesn't seem connected to actual muscle fatigue, it seems to be more mental tiredness, and therefore will power, or discipline, or mental strength seems to be more likely what's needed to get into an exercise routine. Ie. Don't let yourself get away with saying that you're too tired, it's likely a different kind of tired than the one that will hold back exercise. I've actually felt less tired coming out of a session than going in (endorphins, adrenaline effects etc.) (with the disclaimer that this is very much a subjective, your-mileage-may-vary kind of situation, and also I'm speaking from entirely outside of your experience of always feeling tired)
- Ancalagon 4y ago
  Do you mean you have lots of muscle, and that weight is what is causing the apnea? I'm pretty sure I have the same issue. I lost 15-20 lbs of muscle when I lost gym access for 1.5 yrs of COVID, and my girlfriend mentioned my snoring got better. I've gain it all back now though.
watchdogtimer 4y ago
Did you try forcing yourself to sleep on your side? I found if I roll onto my back while I sleep I frequently would either snore or stop breathing to the point where it would cause me to wake up. To keep from sleeping on my back, I now put a foam roller under the back of my shirt before I go to bed. It's eliminated my snoring and help me sleep much better. Other people pin a tennis ball to the back of their shirt for the same reason. I bring this up because I think many people are prescribed a CPAP machine to solve their sleep problems when positional therapy would be a more effective, less expensive solution.[1] [1] https://khn.org/news/article/severe-sleep-apnea-diagnosis-panics-reporter-until-he-finds-a-simple-no-cost-solution/ https://khn.org/news/article/severe-sleep-apnea-diagnosis-pa...
- chris_wot 4y ago
  In my case, I have tried this and it didn’t work. Unfortunately I have what is known as a “floppy epiglottis”, which is what is preventing me from breathing. With the CPAP machine I am definitely getting a better night’s sleep.
timeu 4y ago
My father got 3 stents inserted during an angiogram. The reason was most likey that he was suffering from sleep apnea (his breathing stopped around 60 times an hour and his o2 saturation dropped to 50/60) without knowing it. In his case it was central sleep apnea but after he got a CPAP machine his o2 saturation went back up to > 90%. One easy way to check this is to wear a pusle oximater overnight and check the o2 saturation.

gareth_untether 4y ago

There was a time when I was burning the candle at both ends. For some relief I would regularly go and see a Chinese doctor for massage therapies, but they would do a health check that included looking at my tongue. During this time from stress and lack of sleep my tongue was unusually white. The doctor said if I kept my life style I would have a stroke. I listened to the advice and made big life changes. A friend of mine in a similar job sadly didn't receive the same advice and had a stroke. Fixing bad sleep forces you to fix habitual bad patterns. Which in effect helps restore health and ingrain healthy life patterns

IIAOPSW 4y ago
how does lack of sleep lead to white tongue? why does it eventually cause a stroke?
- closewith 4y ago
  Not the OP, but poor sleep duration/quality has a somewhat strong correlation with dehydration, which is a common cause of a white tongue (inflamed papillae). Poor sleep duration/quality is also correlated with hypertension/high blood pressure, which is a risk factor for stroke and heart disease. Not to say that lack of sleep causes a white tongue or stroke, but it is plausible that it could be a sign of chronic sleep insufficiency or dehydration.
  - qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
    Lack of sleep is a big suspect when it comes to dementia accelerators.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

mathieuh 4y ago

I feel markedly worse with anything much less than eight hours' sleep. I find my natural circadian cycle suits waking up very early (04:30) and going to bed very early (20:00). I'm not a productivity bro or anything, I just feel much more rested on these hours.

diob 4y ago
I have to do 9 hours or else I'm cranky and unproductive with an incredibly low attention span. My natural sleep is definitely about 1-2 am to 10-11 am unfortunately, which is not very compatible with most jobs. Thank god for remote work and being able to nap though.
- ChildOfChaos 4y ago
  This is the problem I have, I'm quite similar, but my job doesn't allow it. Working from home has helped me dramatically as I can get up a bit closer to my ideal time, but whenever I have to work from the office, I might as well write off the whole week, it's really hard as most days I need to nap to recover lost sleep. It's a shame society isn't more flexible. It's very much aligned for the early birds and shortish sleep cycles.
  - soco 4y ago
    Because the early bird catches the worm yada yada. It's a fight uphill against the instagram self-care industry gurus telling everybody to cook a healthy breakfast, jog and gym all before work. Of course we late risers aren't that productive at 8am, if you force us outside our productive hours - said guru would be the same lag at 8pm when I'm breezing through code.
    - ChildOfChaos 4y ago
      Yeah exactly. Those people don't seem to realise, it's all the same hours, so getting up earlier doesn't help, going to bed later, does. They think it's some kinda secret but really they are just working with there body clock and cannot impose that on others.

anovikov 4y ago

Can't imagine how it can probably work. I never do less than 9 hours of sleep daily, usually 10 - at least 7 during the night plus a long day nap.

gambiting 4y ago
Well, you get a new child, and then you discover that yes, you can have 4-5 hours of sleep each night and then still go to work and do chores and spend time with your partner and do everything else. Children really make you discover things about yourself that you wouldn't think possible :P
- Elinvynia 4y ago
  This is like an ad for never having children.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    I mean..................yes. It's weird. I love our son, he's literally my pride and joy and I would do anything for him without hesitation. He's genuine pleasure to be around and makes me so happy every day. Having him also made me reconsider the priorities in my life, realize that work isn't as important as I thought and the world will keep turning even if I'm not doing 10 hour days, it's fine. I would rather spend time with him than do pretty much anything else. But at the same time........the sleepless nights, the arguments with your partner(because you are both exhausted and the smallest thing can explode), the financial cost, the stress whenever something isn't right and you're pulling your hair out..........I absolutely 100000% don't want a second one. Nope. Not worth it. So...............take that as you will :-)
    - aconst 4y ago
      I really understand why some people try to pack all their children in as few years as possible. My son came almost 10 years after my daughter, he's still not yet 6 and still very demanding (while my daughter was objectively less, but still I barely slept during 2 or 3 years). I'll die young ^^;

BLKNSLVR 4y ago

I can survive almost a full working week on 5-6 hours a night, but will need a long sleep-in on the weekend to recover. This isn't ideal and not what I aim for, just what I've noticed. Up until my late 20's / early 30's I'd get headaches and be a grump the very next day on less than 6 hours of sleep. I'm glad I'm past that, so I'm not immediately ruined by one bad night, but still need the eternal discipline for maintaining a routine for long term health.

null_object 4y ago

I think a lot of people are being kept awake worrying about these types of articles.

Barrin92 4y ago

Rings personally true for me. I can do fine on five hours for quite a while although it's somewhat tiring, while six is usually enough for me generally. Same for my father who always has slept relatively little. What I'd really like to see is more research into individual variance. I felt quite guilty about my sleep habits because people kept going on about eight hours. A few years ago there was a book about this that made the tours on every news show until it was torn apart for making half of its content up.

marginalia_nu 4y ago

I feel that while I can subsist on not-a-lot-of-sleep, I also definitely become a bit of an idiot if I do. I make dumb mistakes, I struggle to make connections, I make poor choices, and overall kinda feel like shit.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

IYasha 4y ago

True, but what if life demands? :_(

notacoward 4y ago

Probably worth noting that an individual's need for sleep can change in both the short and long term. There are oodles of studies on how sleep need changes as we age, so I won't even go into that. What I've been noticing the last couple of years is the short term variability. I'll go through weeks or months when sleeping six or seven hours feels great, and more than that actually makes me feel worse. Then I'll go through weeks or months when it has to be eight or nine or I'm half dead. Lather, rinse, repeat. The key, I guess, is to pay attention to your tiredness levels and be prepared to try different things when the current sleep regime doesn't seem to be working. Instead of saying "X hours is what works for me" learn the signs of being overtired and react dynamically.

feet 4y ago
It's almost like life is dynamic and constantly changing. Who would have thought

jjk166 4y ago

This seems more like correlation than causation. I would expect the people whose lifestyles allow them to regularly get good sleep are also the people who are in a good position to avoid various health problems compared to say someone working 3 jobs to make ends meet or someone clubbing till 3 am regularly. Certainly in their data, people with less than 5 hours per night of sleep were disproportionately in lower career positions, less educated, minorities, people with lower levels of fruit consumption, very high or very low BMI, current smokers, and more likely to have hypertension. These specific factors were adjusted for, but the paper does not say how that adjustment was made or what the difference in the results is before and after the adjustment. I also found it interesting that, in the reverse of most of the other factors, a disproportionate number of those who get less than 5 hours of sleep don't consume alcohol (or at least reported 0 for their average weekly consumption). Also it's weird that those sleeping less than 5 hours and those who sleep more than 9 hours seem to share the same socio-demographic characteristics.

flashgordon 4y ago

Damn it I know how bad this is and I still can't help myself getting active with side projects late into the night. I desperately need to find a way to break the cycle :(