21 ms·

Why would people go work in an office, when you can just work from home? Can't put the genie back in the bottle.

themitigating 4y ago
Socializing with others A situation at home that is distracting The need for changing location for mental delimination of work
- aaaaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
- maxehmookau 4y ago
  I can agree with your second two points, in some circumstances. But... I don't go to work to socialise. I hate the idea that my social life is tied to my work. Since moving to work from home permanently, I've built social connections with people who actually live in my community which I far prefer.
  - mattbroekhuis 4y ago
    You can socialize at work without having it tied to your social life. I miss everyday banter and eating lunch with my co-workers.
- lijogdfljk 4y ago
  I like some of those, maybe 10% of the time (because i'm reasonably anti-social), but man it has to be really good to put up with a commute. Wasting 1-2 hours of my day, with the potential to have it become a 4 hour drive once every week or two.. just way too rough. I honestly don't get how people put up with commutes. Like, honestly and really. It feels like i'm just destroying any chance i have for downtime during the weekdays. Throw in chores, and oof. Plus i don't have kids.. i can't imagine having kids on top of a commute.
  - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
    I’m happy to pick a job based on the commute. It’s not hard in the Bay Area to find something good and close. I’ve never had more than a 15 minute commute when living here.
    - lijogdfljk 4y ago
      I worked in Tacoma (Washington State) and the drive on I5 there could turn a 25 minute drive into a 4 hour slugfest. Worse yet, about once a week it would be 3 hour drive, almost without fail. It was awful.
    - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
      I did end up with a 30 minute trip home today because of an accident blocking 3/5 lanes. But I guess that's not that bad of a worst-case scenario.
  - nisegami 4y ago
    I rear ended someone last week near the end of a ~90 minute commute home (there was unusual traffic but it's still an hour minimum) and it really was the wake up call I needed to remind me why I was so opposed to working in my country's capital. At this point I think I'm ready to quit my developer job and take a 50% pay cut for any desk job with a reasonable commute (no developer jobs open in my country right now as far as I can tell).
  - zucked 4y ago
    I ride my bike to work. It's fantastic. Commute isn't a four letter word to me - I get exercise, time to think, I see my neighborhood and surroundings in a new way through all the seasons. I don't do it every day, sometimes I WFH or drive to work, but most of the time, 8 months out of the year, I ride my bike. Someone is going to come along and say "BuT I dOn'T hAvE AnY bIkE pAtHs!" That might be true. Almost nobody has a bike path from their front door to their office. I sure don't. But if you stare at a map long enough, you'll find a way. It might mean you add a detour to ride a safer route. It might mean you have to drive half way. It might mean you take public transit half the way. I can't solutionize for everyone, but changing up your commute really changes things. It doesn't have to be such a miserable existence.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  Why are so many onsite advocates bringing socialising up? We are not there for their mental health or to fill in voids in their personal life. Have they considered that many of their socialising needs are not satisfied precisely because of office work that mandates people waste their time commuting or being far from their loved ones in the first place? It’s not that i dont sympathise, but seriously.
  - mkehrt 4y ago
    I don't think we should force people to come into offices, but I am a strong advocate for having offices. I cannot work at home. I need a minimum number of people around, preferably people with whom I am doing some work, to get anything done. If I'm at home by myself, even for a day, I sit in a depressed pit and do no work. I understand that many, many people do not feel this way, but the idea that people would want to work from home is utterly bananas to me.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      > I need a minimum number of people around, preferably people with whom I am doing some work, to get anything done. Doesn't seem like you need an office for that, though? You can invite your coworkers over to your home, go to a coffeeshop/bar, even the library. I went to the local library the other day and it was effectively vacant. I bet they would welcome your group with open arms to find some use for the space. Work from home doesn’t mean work from home, it means work from anywhere.
      - ihuman 4y ago
        All the WFH coworkers I've had were too spread out for that to be possible. Yes, "100% remote" means you can work from anywhere, but it also means your company can hire from anywhere.
        yrgulation 4y ago
        > your company can hire from anywhere. No need for nationalistic conspiracy theories. If your employer wants to replace you with an outsourced company or worker they will do so regardless of remote work policies, as it already happens.
- xwdv 4y ago
  Increasingly those are niche problems. You can still socialize digitally with others if you work from home, or step out and get lunch or coffee at local businesses and be around people. A home is no more distracting than an office. Work is what happens when your laptop is open. Make a ritual of closing it to symbolize the end of your work day and you get the same effect. Working from an office sucks and is for lower class jobs IMO. It is beneath a software engineer’s esteemed status.
  - kompatible 4y ago
    A home where your may live with a good number of people and no workspace besides your bedroom can be very distracting. And assuming all software engineers are paid MAGMA wages and are higher class workers than others in their company is absolutely incorrect
  - themitigating 4y ago
    "You can still socialize digitally with others if you work from home, or step out and get lunch or coffee at local businesses and be around people." I don't think socializing digitally is a sufficient substitute. Being around people I don't know isn't socializing because I don't have a relationship with them." -------------------------------------------- "A home is no more distracting than an office." My apartment is quiet, I have two cats, I'm not near any loud roadway just a park, and my building has sound proofing so I never hear my neighbors. Everyone has a different living situation but your comment implies it's the same for everyone. -------------------------------------------- "Work is what happens when your laptop is open. Make a ritual of closing it to symbolize the end of your work day and you get the same effect." This is not sufficient for me. I don't know why you think what works for you psychologically would work for others. -------------------------------------------- "Working from an office sucks and is for lower class jobs IMO. It is beneath a software engineer’s esteemed status. This is such a stupid comment that I'm just going to call you an asshole and take the flag.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- SSJPython 4y ago
  Not every single worker needs work to socialize with others. Some people have places of worship and other things to socialize. All this means is that working in an office should be optional. Forcing it on everyone just because some people use work to socialize is not intelligent.
- kompatible 4y ago
  There may be a gamut of people replying saying "I don't go to work to socialize" but work is definitely a place to network and find new colleagues and opportunities beyond. Trying to say that any work one does is done without any interaction with your coworkers apart from sparse Slack/Teams messages just isn't true
  - irrational 4y ago
    This sounds like an extrovert talking. I don’t network, find new colleagues, find opportunities beyond at work. As an introvert, all of that sounds absolutely anxiety ridden terrifying. Thankfully I am fully remote now so all of the interaction I have to do with coworkers is over slack.
    - stagger87 4y ago
      Anxiety is not a component of being introverted.
- randomdata 4y ago
  > Socializing with others Must be a cultural thing, but in my sphere 'home' is where a lot of socializing with others takes place.
- NeoTar 4y ago
  Those are pretty much the big reasons! Others may be: * Access to specialist resources/equipment which is only available in the office, * Costs of heating / cooling / etc. (more significant now, in Europe at least),
  - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    Heating a solo home isn't a big deal compared to the combined costs of heating a shared space and gas to commute. Employers cheaping out by paying gas but not paying your heating is a different story
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  > The need for changing location for mental delimination of work This is actually the biggest reason for me. Even after nearly 2 years of WFH I didn't find it nearly as easy to mentally separate from work. Leaving the office at 4pm does that much more effectively. I went back to working at the office as soon as it was possible.
  - kjkjadksj 4y ago
    You could also just take your laptop wherever you want in your neighborhood or simulate a commute with a 5 min walk around the block.
    - themitigating 4y ago
      The travel to a new location is the key for me. Walking around the block and coming back to my apartment isn't going to cut it. As for locations: - Coffee shops are noisy and staying there multiple hours is both inappropriate, you could have power issues, wifi issues related to speed. - Being outside requires some internet device which may not be reliable or fast, power issues again but I guess you could just have a backpack with a USB power bank. The sun makes it difficult to see, you need to find a table, bugs, animals, other people, rain, heat, cold, etc I've tried these things. My home setup is dual 27 inches with a physical keyboard. This improves my performance greatly, maybe I could get used to a laptop but that would require an adjustment period.
      - kjkjadksj 4y ago
        The library works too for a quiet study space you can be at for long hours without paying a dime
- irrational 4y ago
  As a company, I would think that I don’t want you socializing - you are here to work, not to chit chat. And I don’t want you to mentally deliminate work. I want you working from morning to night. Edit: note that I’m an individual contributor and not in any sort of management position - but I imagine this is how management types think.
- the_gipsy 4y ago
  > Socializing with others Shameful.
- stagger87 4y ago
  Collaboration Mentoring Engineering a physical product. Maybe not the norm on this forum, but certainly the norm for many engineering jobs.
- lm28469 4y ago
  > Socializing with others What a dystopic world we live when where "work" became the main, if not only, source of socialisation. I use the hours I shaved off by not commuting for real socialisation
  - themitigating 4y ago
    Not all commutes are long. Mine was about 30 minutes by train and I used that time to clear my head and prepare myself for work. On the way back I used it as a way to relax and switch off. My parents met at work and I've made friends at previous position and remained friends with them. I also think that being in close proximity is important to me. For example people around the world travel home for the holidays instead of using a webcam. Since the cost and time of that travel is significant must there be a reason why it's important.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    What a dystopic world we live in when "work" is not also a source of pleasurable socialization. I spend far more hours at work than I have for socializing outside of work, with or without commutes.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    Socializing is an important part of building relationships. No developer is an island, with remote work I have much weaker relationships with my coworkers and we collaborate a decent amount less. It's much, much harder to figure out what other teams are working on/stuck on. Generally everyone is just more silo'd, and I don't think that's good for productivity, growth, or my mental health. In the office I'd end up learning new things constantly talking in the hall or at lunch. Now I rarely talk to coworkers about non work things which means we also end up talking about work less.
- GaryNumanVevo 4y ago
  The work socialization aspect has always made me laugh. I'd much rather socialize with people I don't work with, and especially not in a stuffy office
rossdavidh 4y ago
I've done both, and I have been working from home for the last four years, but I don't think it's that clear cut. Another way to put it: "why use part of your home for work space, and pay for your worktime utilities, when your employer should pay for that?"
- throwaway1777 4y ago
  This is it for me, I want to use my house for other things than office space…
  - kjkjadksj 4y ago
    You can always take your laptop to a cafe or library, i bet that would be a more ideal commute.
- golergka 4y ago
  Because this allows you to compete for jobs around the world instead of being limited to the city you're currently residing at.
- lolinder 4y ago
  Yeah, anytime we're discussing work from home it's important to realize that people's living situations are very different. In my case, our house has a room that is basically only big enough to be an office, and we have solar that means we barely pay for electricity. It's a no-brainer for me to save the time and money that would be sunk in a commute and just use that room for work. However, I can totally see how someone without that extra space would find an office important. I think what would be optimal for society is if we could reclaim the space that is used for central, commuter offices and bring that space closer to home. Whether that's building more homes that have rooms specifically designed to be offices, or building coworking spaces in the middle of residential areas, we need to do something to eliminate commutes. The amount of pollution, accidental deaths, property damage, and wasted time inherent in people driving to work is insane. Technology is at the point where, for most office workers, the harm caused by commutes far outweighs the benefits of being in a centralized work environment.
- 4y ago
pkulak 4y ago
If your commute doesn't suck, it's not bad to go into the office. I feel like offices are getting a bad rap here, when it's not really about them.
- Bilal_io 4y ago
  Most people's commute sucks. And for those with less sucky commute, they mostly pay a premium for their rent to be as close as possible to their workplace. Both situations are horrible and the benefits of WFH are vast, not only to people who want it, but also those who don't.
colinmhayes 4y ago
Work from home is bad for my mental health and growth.
nikanj 4y ago
Theoretically: because the office is optimized for productivity, whereas the home is optimized for comfort Alas, most offices are optimized for 1) cost-per-person 2) modern looks and an open concept My home is much better for working than my workplace is

Socializing with others A situation at home that is distracting The need for changing location for mental delimination of work

aaaaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
maxehmookau 4y ago
I can agree with your second two points, in some circumstances. But... I don't go to work to socialise. I hate the idea that my social life is tied to my work. Since moving to work from home permanently, I've built social connections with people who actually live in my community which I far prefer.
- mattbroekhuis 4y ago
  You can socialize at work without having it tied to your social life. I miss everyday banter and eating lunch with my co-workers.
lijogdfljk 4y ago
I like some of those, maybe 10% of the time (because i'm reasonably anti-social), but man it has to be really good to put up with a commute. Wasting 1-2 hours of my day, with the potential to have it become a 4 hour drive once every week or two.. just way too rough. I honestly don't get how people put up with commutes. Like, honestly and really. It feels like i'm just destroying any chance i have for downtime during the weekdays. Throw in chores, and oof. Plus i don't have kids.. i can't imagine having kids on top of a commute.
- teaearlgraycold 4y ago
  I’m happy to pick a job based on the commute. It’s not hard in the Bay Area to find something good and close. I’ve never had more than a 15 minute commute when living here.
  - lijogdfljk 4y ago
    I worked in Tacoma (Washington State) and the drive on I5 there could turn a 25 minute drive into a 4 hour slugfest. Worse yet, about once a week it would be 3 hour drive, almost without fail. It was awful.
  - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
    I did end up with a 30 minute trip home today because of an accident blocking 3/5 lanes. But I guess that's not that bad of a worst-case scenario.
- nisegami 4y ago
  I rear ended someone last week near the end of a ~90 minute commute home (there was unusual traffic but it's still an hour minimum) and it really was the wake up call I needed to remind me why I was so opposed to working in my country's capital. At this point I think I'm ready to quit my developer job and take a 50% pay cut for any desk job with a reasonable commute (no developer jobs open in my country right now as far as I can tell).
- zucked 4y ago
  I ride my bike to work. It's fantastic. Commute isn't a four letter word to me - I get exercise, time to think, I see my neighborhood and surroundings in a new way through all the seasons. I don't do it every day, sometimes I WFH or drive to work, but most of the time, 8 months out of the year, I ride my bike. Someone is going to come along and say "BuT I dOn'T hAvE AnY bIkE pAtHs!" That might be true. Almost nobody has a bike path from their front door to their office. I sure don't. But if you stare at a map long enough, you'll find a way. It might mean you add a detour to ride a safer route. It might mean you have to drive half way. It might mean you take public transit half the way. I can't solutionize for everyone, but changing up your commute really changes things. It doesn't have to be such a miserable existence.
yrgulation 4y ago
Why are so many onsite advocates bringing socialising up? We are not there for their mental health or to fill in voids in their personal life. Have they considered that many of their socialising needs are not satisfied precisely because of office work that mandates people waste their time commuting or being far from their loved ones in the first place? It’s not that i dont sympathise, but seriously.
- mkehrt 4y ago
  I don't think we should force people to come into offices, but I am a strong advocate for having offices. I cannot work at home. I need a minimum number of people around, preferably people with whom I am doing some work, to get anything done. If I'm at home by myself, even for a day, I sit in a depressed pit and do no work. I understand that many, many people do not feel this way, but the idea that people would want to work from home is utterly bananas to me.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    > I need a minimum number of people around, preferably people with whom I am doing some work, to get anything done. Doesn't seem like you need an office for that, though? You can invite your coworkers over to your home, go to a coffeeshop/bar, even the library. I went to the local library the other day and it was effectively vacant. I bet they would welcome your group with open arms to find some use for the space. Work from home doesn’t mean work from home, it means work from anywhere.
    - ihuman 4y ago
      All the WFH coworkers I've had were too spread out for that to be possible. Yes, "100% remote" means you can work from anywhere, but it also means your company can hire from anywhere.
      - yrgulation 4y ago
        > your company can hire from anywhere. No need for nationalistic conspiracy theories. If your employer wants to replace you with an outsourced company or worker they will do so regardless of remote work policies, as it already happens.
xwdv 4y ago
Increasingly those are niche problems. You can still socialize digitally with others if you work from home, or step out and get lunch or coffee at local businesses and be around people. A home is no more distracting than an office. Work is what happens when your laptop is open. Make a ritual of closing it to symbolize the end of your work day and you get the same effect. Working from an office sucks and is for lower class jobs IMO. It is beneath a software engineer’s esteemed status.
- kompatible 4y ago
  A home where your may live with a good number of people and no workspace besides your bedroom can be very distracting. And assuming all software engineers are paid MAGMA wages and are higher class workers than others in their company is absolutely incorrect
- themitigating 4y ago
  "You can still socialize digitally with others if you work from home, or step out and get lunch or coffee at local businesses and be around people." I don't think socializing digitally is a sufficient substitute. Being around people I don't know isn't socializing because I don't have a relationship with them." -------------------------------------------- "A home is no more distracting than an office." My apartment is quiet, I have two cats, I'm not near any loud roadway just a park, and my building has sound proofing so I never hear my neighbors. Everyone has a different living situation but your comment implies it's the same for everyone. -------------------------------------------- "Work is what happens when your laptop is open. Make a ritual of closing it to symbolize the end of your work day and you get the same effect." This is not sufficient for me. I don't know why you think what works for you psychologically would work for others. -------------------------------------------- "Working from an office sucks and is for lower class jobs IMO. It is beneath a software engineer’s esteemed status. This is such a stupid comment that I'm just going to call you an asshole and take the flag.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
SSJPython 4y ago
Not every single worker needs work to socialize with others. Some people have places of worship and other things to socialize. All this means is that working in an office should be optional. Forcing it on everyone just because some people use work to socialize is not intelligent.
kompatible 4y ago
There may be a gamut of people replying saying "I don't go to work to socialize" but work is definitely a place to network and find new colleagues and opportunities beyond. Trying to say that any work one does is done without any interaction with your coworkers apart from sparse Slack/Teams messages just isn't true
- irrational 4y ago
  This sounds like an extrovert talking. I don’t network, find new colleagues, find opportunities beyond at work. As an introvert, all of that sounds absolutely anxiety ridden terrifying. Thankfully I am fully remote now so all of the interaction I have to do with coworkers is over slack.
  - stagger87 4y ago
    Anxiety is not a component of being introverted.
randomdata 4y ago
> Socializing with others Must be a cultural thing, but in my sphere 'home' is where a lot of socializing with others takes place.
NeoTar 4y ago
Those are pretty much the big reasons! Others may be: * Access to specialist resources/equipment which is only available in the office, * Costs of heating / cooling / etc. (more significant now, in Europe at least),
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  Heating a solo home isn't a big deal compared to the combined costs of heating a shared space and gas to commute. Employers cheaping out by paying gas but not paying your heating is a different story
SoftTalker 4y ago
> The need for changing location for mental delimination of work This is actually the biggest reason for me. Even after nearly 2 years of WFH I didn't find it nearly as easy to mentally separate from work. Leaving the office at 4pm does that much more effectively. I went back to working at the office as soon as it was possible.
- kjkjadksj 4y ago
  You could also just take your laptop wherever you want in your neighborhood or simulate a commute with a 5 min walk around the block.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    The travel to a new location is the key for me. Walking around the block and coming back to my apartment isn't going to cut it. As for locations: - Coffee shops are noisy and staying there multiple hours is both inappropriate, you could have power issues, wifi issues related to speed. - Being outside requires some internet device which may not be reliable or fast, power issues again but I guess you could just have a backpack with a USB power bank. The sun makes it difficult to see, you need to find a table, bugs, animals, other people, rain, heat, cold, etc I've tried these things. My home setup is dual 27 inches with a physical keyboard. This improves my performance greatly, maybe I could get used to a laptop but that would require an adjustment period.
    - kjkjadksj 4y ago
      The library works too for a quiet study space you can be at for long hours without paying a dime
irrational 4y ago
As a company, I would think that I don’t want you socializing - you are here to work, not to chit chat. And I don’t want you to mentally deliminate work. I want you working from morning to night. Edit: note that I’m an individual contributor and not in any sort of management position - but I imagine this is how management types think.
the_gipsy 4y ago
> Socializing with others Shameful.
stagger87 4y ago
Collaboration Mentoring Engineering a physical product. Maybe not the norm on this forum, but certainly the norm for many engineering jobs.
lm28469 4y ago
> Socializing with others What a dystopic world we live when where "work" became the main, if not only, source of socialisation. I use the hours I shaved off by not commuting for real socialisation
- themitigating 4y ago
  Not all commutes are long. Mine was about 30 minutes by train and I used that time to clear my head and prepare myself for work. On the way back I used it as a way to relax and switch off. My parents met at work and I've made friends at previous position and remained friends with them. I also think that being in close proximity is important to me. For example people around the world travel home for the holidays instead of using a webcam. Since the cost and time of that travel is significant must there be a reason why it's important.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  What a dystopic world we live in when "work" is not also a source of pleasurable socialization. I spend far more hours at work than I have for socializing outside of work, with or without commutes.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  Socializing is an important part of building relationships. No developer is an island, with remote work I have much weaker relationships with my coworkers and we collaborate a decent amount less. It's much, much harder to figure out what other teams are working on/stuck on. Generally everyone is just more silo'd, and I don't think that's good for productivity, growth, or my mental health. In the office I'd end up learning new things constantly talking in the hall or at lunch. Now I rarely talk to coworkers about non work things which means we also end up talking about work less.
GaryNumanVevo 4y ago
The work socialization aspect has always made me laugh. I'd much rather socialize with people I don't work with, and especially not in a stuffy office

rossdavidh 4y ago

I've done both, and I have been working from home for the last four years, but I don't think it's that clear cut. Another way to put it: "why use part of your home for work space, and pay for your worktime utilities, when your employer should pay for that?"

throwaway1777 4y ago
This is it for me, I want to use my house for other things than office space…
- kjkjadksj 4y ago
  You can always take your laptop to a cafe or library, i bet that would be a more ideal commute.
golergka 4y ago
Because this allows you to compete for jobs around the world instead of being limited to the city you're currently residing at.
lolinder 4y ago
Yeah, anytime we're discussing work from home it's important to realize that people's living situations are very different. In my case, our house has a room that is basically only big enough to be an office, and we have solar that means we barely pay for electricity. It's a no-brainer for me to save the time and money that would be sunk in a commute and just use that room for work. However, I can totally see how someone without that extra space would find an office important. I think what would be optimal for society is if we could reclaim the space that is used for central, commuter offices and bring that space closer to home. Whether that's building more homes that have rooms specifically designed to be offices, or building coworking spaces in the middle of residential areas, we need to do something to eliminate commutes. The amount of pollution, accidental deaths, property damage, and wasted time inherent in people driving to work is insane. Technology is at the point where, for most office workers, the harm caused by commutes far outweighs the benefits of being in a centralized work environment.
4y ago

pkulak 4y ago

If your commute doesn't suck, it's not bad to go into the office. I feel like offices are getting a bad rap here, when it's not really about them.

Bilal_io 4y ago
Most people's commute sucks. And for those with less sucky commute, they mostly pay a premium for their rent to be as close as possible to their workplace. Both situations are horrible and the benefits of WFH are vast, not only to people who want it, but also those who don't.

colinmhayes 4y ago

Work from home is bad for my mental health and growth.

nikanj 4y ago

Theoretically: because the office is optimized for productivity, whereas the home is optimized for comfort Alas, most offices are optimized for 1) cost-per-person 2) modern looks and an open concept My home is much better for working than my workplace is