4 ms·

I have to repost it aagain: Firefox: the last remaining mostly independent, maintained and reasonably popular browser. Even if it were inferior in any aspect t

I have to repost it aagain: Firefox: the last remaining mostly independent, maintained and reasonably popular browser. Even if it were inferior in any aspect to other options, I'd still use it for the above mentioned reasons.

EbNar 4y ago
aliqot 4y ago
Qutebrowser is best, I pay for it voluntarily though it's free. But Firefox is mostly independent eh? Did they stop taking google money yet?
- anycans 4y ago
  Qutebrowser isnt independent if you care that google money is involved, it uses blink. Firefox is the only even vaguely independent browser engine that keeps up at all with google.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - reitanqild 4y ago
    Librewolf is a running fork of the newest Firefox with some small improvements. Unlike other forks it always has latest security updates. I use it these days and I am considering to start chipping in too (I am at my limits currently so I will have to stop something else though). But I really really want something like my old Firefox back...!
    - aliqot 4y ago
      I also chip in :) Librewolf eally saved my bacon on this old laptop I keep flogging into the future.
    - Arnavion 4y ago
      >Unlike other forks it always has latest security updates. Well yeah, that's how all the forks are when they start out. It's less than a year old (started in Nov 2021) so I'd be worried if it didn't keep up with upstream security patches.
      - reitanqild 4y ago
        Difference is the other forks I have been using has deliberately forked an older ESR to keep features that Mozilla axed. AFAIK Librefox re-forks from the newest FF everytime there is a release and apply their fixes as patches.
  - insanitybit 4y ago
    > Qutebrowser isnt independent if you care that google money is involved, it uses blink. Did something change? Last I checked almost all funding for Firefox was from Google.
    - bongobingo1 4y ago
      That was my impression too, signing a 3 year deal in 2020 for ~$400 to $450 million/year. > More than 90 per cent of Mozilla's funding comes from web search providers that pay for the right to be the default search engine in Firefox in their regions. According to the organization's latest financial figures [PDF], $430m of its 2018 total revenue of $451m came from those internet giants – primarily Google, we understand. These deals were due to be renewed or renegotiated by November this year. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/14/mozilla_google_search/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/14/mozilla_google_search... I believe it's listed under royalties and also receivables in the annual report, though that does not specify Google specifically, but you can look at the numbers and figure they are a large portion if the news was accurate. [2] https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2020/mozilla-fdn-2020-short-form-0926.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2020/mozilla-fdn-202...
NayamAmarshe 4y ago
The truth is, people using Firefox just to 'stick it to the big bad corpo' is getting us nowhere. Firefox is losing not because of Chrome but because of its own incompetence or inability to keep the users happy. Firefox is losing userbase a lot faster than some other browsers are gaining it, is that Firefox users' fault or Firefox's? I use Firefox because I think the sync service it provides is great and that some of the customization is unmatched, not because I think I'm some soldier fighting the Chromium monopoly.
- marcodiego 4y ago
  > people using Firefox just to 'stick it to the big bad corpo' is getting us nowhere. Don't underestimate the power of small contributions. You could say the same about people using konqueror 20 years ago, it brought KHTML which brought us webkit. You could say the same about people using firefox at the same time. You could say the same about people using linux in middle 90's, the same about GCC... I could go on showing more examples. Simply using a software is a form of contribution: at the least it improves statistics. People making small contributions are important; small donations to wikipedia, bug reports, translations, fixing a small bug, improving a feature you need, talking with devs to guarantee a device works... I personally made many of these small contributions and although most of them didn't ended up on the "market leader project", it certainly made them good enough for people to keep using them and to encourage other people to contribute too.
  - NayamAmarshe 4y ago
    Sure but we're acting as if a few people sticking to Firefox for the sake of it is going to save it, it's not. Not unless Mozilla fixes its underlying problems like the management and development roadmaps. The fact that Firefox got backdrop-blur support in mid 2022 speaks volumes about Firefox's priorities. I get the point you're trying to make, I use FOSS because I believe more people should be using it and if I don't, who would? But that doesn't work when it comes to Firefox. There are a lot of good free and open source browsers right now, no matter what engine they use. If a chromium based FOSS browser gets popular enough, there are better chances of it surviving and breaking away from Google's monopoly at the same time. It does not matter what Google does with Chrome, as long as independent forks are able to exist within that same space and can get just as big.
firefoxkekw 4y ago
You are literally helping the "big corpo" doing that. Firefox was mostly funded by Alphabet/Google to avoid antitrust lawsuits/promote their search engine, one of the best scenarios for the "big corpo" is a product (firefox) that doesn't have many users and cater to the most anti-corpo users (users that wouldn't like to use "big corpo" products anyway). At this point mozilla is just a bussiness expense for the big corpo, the cost of doing bussiness. "Big corpo" can argue, "look we are even funding the competence", the competence need to be small but relevant enough, so while you are thinking that you are fighting the "big corpo" the reality is that you are just helping to keep firefox relevant enough that the "big corpo" can't be sued.
monlockandkey 4y ago
I have said this before, but I will repeat again: The entire internet discourse is filled with "Chrome evil, use Firefox". Go to any browser discussion on the internet and 99% of the thread is "just use Firefox or Firefox is the best". You would think that everyone uses Firefox. The internet is a bubble. Reality is Firefox usage is pathetic. 32 MILLION people have STOPPED using Firefox in the past 4 years. The browser only has a 3.16% market share. https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share Chrome is a good browser. Can be considered objectively better than Firefox given its superior performance, equivalent if not slightly better resource usage, web compatibility and integration with the Google ecosystem (which the vast majority of internet population use (excluding niche tech circles)). I have no vendetta against Firefox. At the end of the day, it is just a browser and that is a personal preference. But people act like it is some sort of saviour that will bring them to the light. There is such an aggressive tribal mentality with browsers. It makes no sense as all browsers look the same, feel the same and have the same functionality. Just a matter of preference given your needs, and for 70% of the population, Chromium delivers.
- nedt 4y ago
  First of all usage of Firefox is mostly desktop. On iOS you don't even have a real choice. Just looking at desktop doubles the share. Then you have different usage in different countries. Looking at desktop in Europe you get above 10%. Last I'm never sure you skewed the Firefox stats are. Often 3rd party trackers are blocked and I have yet to find a comparison of client side vs. server side tracking. Not saying the Firefox numbers are wrong, just that they aren't certain.

EbNar 4y ago

aliqot 4y ago

Qutebrowser is best, I pay for it voluntarily though it's free. But Firefox is mostly independent eh? Did they stop taking google money yet?

anycans 4y ago
Qutebrowser isnt independent if you care that google money is involved, it uses blink. Firefox is the only even vaguely independent browser engine that keeps up at all with google.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- reitanqild 4y ago
  Librewolf is a running fork of the newest Firefox with some small improvements. Unlike other forks it always has latest security updates. I use it these days and I am considering to start chipping in too (I am at my limits currently so I will have to stop something else though). But I really really want something like my old Firefox back...!
  - aliqot 4y ago
    I also chip in :) Librewolf eally saved my bacon on this old laptop I keep flogging into the future.
  - Arnavion 4y ago
    >Unlike other forks it always has latest security updates. Well yeah, that's how all the forks are when they start out. It's less than a year old (started in Nov 2021) so I'd be worried if it didn't keep up with upstream security patches.
    - reitanqild 4y ago
      Difference is the other forks I have been using has deliberately forked an older ESR to keep features that Mozilla axed. AFAIK Librefox re-forks from the newest FF everytime there is a release and apply their fixes as patches.
- insanitybit 4y ago
  > Qutebrowser isnt independent if you care that google money is involved, it uses blink. Did something change? Last I checked almost all funding for Firefox was from Google.
  - bongobingo1 4y ago
    That was my impression too, signing a 3 year deal in 2020 for ~$400 to $450 million/year. > More than 90 per cent of Mozilla's funding comes from web search providers that pay for the right to be the default search engine in Firefox in their regions. According to the organization's latest financial figures [PDF], $430m of its 2018 total revenue of $451m came from those internet giants – primarily Google, we understand. These deals were due to be renewed or renegotiated by November this year. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/14/mozilla_google_search/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/14/mozilla_google_search... I believe it's listed under royalties and also receivables in the annual report, though that does not specify Google specifically, but you can look at the numbers and figure they are a large portion if the news was accurate. [2] https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2020/mozilla-fdn-2020-short-form-0926.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2020/mozilla-fdn-202...

NayamAmarshe 4y ago

The truth is, people using Firefox just to 'stick it to the big bad corpo' is getting us nowhere. Firefox is losing not because of Chrome but because of its own incompetence or inability to keep the users happy. Firefox is losing userbase a lot faster than some other browsers are gaining it, is that Firefox users' fault or Firefox's? I use Firefox because I think the sync service it provides is great and that some of the customization is unmatched, not because I think I'm some soldier fighting the Chromium monopoly.

marcodiego 4y ago
> people using Firefox just to 'stick it to the big bad corpo' is getting us nowhere. Don't underestimate the power of small contributions. You could say the same about people using konqueror 20 years ago, it brought KHTML which brought us webkit. You could say the same about people using firefox at the same time. You could say the same about people using linux in middle 90's, the same about GCC... I could go on showing more examples. Simply using a software is a form of contribution: at the least it improves statistics. People making small contributions are important; small donations to wikipedia, bug reports, translations, fixing a small bug, improving a feature you need, talking with devs to guarantee a device works... I personally made many of these small contributions and although most of them didn't ended up on the "market leader project", it certainly made them good enough for people to keep using them and to encourage other people to contribute too.
- NayamAmarshe 4y ago
  Sure but we're acting as if a few people sticking to Firefox for the sake of it is going to save it, it's not. Not unless Mozilla fixes its underlying problems like the management and development roadmaps. The fact that Firefox got backdrop-blur support in mid 2022 speaks volumes about Firefox's priorities. I get the point you're trying to make, I use FOSS because I believe more people should be using it and if I don't, who would? But that doesn't work when it comes to Firefox. There are a lot of good free and open source browsers right now, no matter what engine they use. If a chromium based FOSS browser gets popular enough, there are better chances of it surviving and breaking away from Google's monopoly at the same time. It does not matter what Google does with Chrome, as long as independent forks are able to exist within that same space and can get just as big.

firefoxkekw 4y ago

You are literally helping the "big corpo" doing that. Firefox was mostly funded by Alphabet/Google to avoid antitrust lawsuits/promote their search engine, one of the best scenarios for the "big corpo" is a product (firefox) that doesn't have many users and cater to the most anti-corpo users (users that wouldn't like to use "big corpo" products anyway). At this point mozilla is just a bussiness expense for the big corpo, the cost of doing bussiness. "Big corpo" can argue, "look we are even funding the competence", the competence need to be small but relevant enough, so while you are thinking that you are fighting the "big corpo" the reality is that you are just helping to keep firefox relevant enough that the "big corpo" can't be sued.

monlockandkey 4y ago

I have said this before, but I will repeat again: The entire internet discourse is filled with "Chrome evil, use Firefox". Go to any browser discussion on the internet and 99% of the thread is "just use Firefox or Firefox is the best". You would think that everyone uses Firefox. The internet is a bubble. Reality is Firefox usage is pathetic. 32 MILLION people have STOPPED using Firefox in the past 4 years. The browser only has a 3.16% market share. https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share Chrome is a good browser. Can be considered objectively better than Firefox given its superior performance, equivalent if not slightly better resource usage, web compatibility and integration with the Google ecosystem (which the vast majority of internet population use (excluding niche tech circles)). I have no vendetta against Firefox. At the end of the day, it is just a browser and that is a personal preference. But people act like it is some sort of saviour that will bring them to the light. There is such an aggressive tribal mentality with browsers. It makes no sense as all browsers look the same, feel the same and have the same functionality. Just a matter of preference given your needs, and for 70% of the population, Chromium delivers.

nedt 4y ago
First of all usage of Firefox is mostly desktop. On iOS you don't even have a real choice. Just looking at desktop doubles the share. Then you have different usage in different countries. Looking at desktop in Europe you get above 10%. Last I'm never sure you skewed the Firefox stats are. Often 3rd party trackers are blocked and I have yet to find a comparison of client side vs. server side tracking. Not saying the Firefox numbers are wrong, just that they aren't certain.