4 ms·

Visitors to Qatar for the World Cup need to install spyware on their phone

82 points by mikece 4y ago

loudthing 4y ago
Apparently the one app requires permissions for "an overview of your exact location, the ability to make direct calls via your phone and the ability to disable your screen lock." I've never heard of any app being able to make calls or disable the lock screen. Is that even possible? I suspect maybe on Android?
- dundarious 4y ago
  I believe the "disable lock screen" permission is to prevent auto-lock, for example while displaying a video or QR code, and does not mean anything like that the app can remotely unlock the phone. The other permissions are certainly concerning.
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  Disable Lock Screen means disabling the auto shutoff of the screen. This is important for any app that needs to remain constantly visible.
  - dawnerd 4y ago
    But is it actually needed or is it a way they can make sure the phone doesn’t lock if they confiscate it?
    - UncleMeat 4y ago
      The permission does not give the ability for an app to make a user unable to lock their screen. It enables an app to disable the automatic lock.
josteink 4y ago
If I really needed another reason not to visit a totalitarian, human rights-violations, murderous, anti-gay dictatorship to watch someone play football, this might move the needle. But really, I’m way past that already and I would hope that most other civilized people are as well.
- sph 4y ago
  The media world and big business in general isn't civilized people. It is composed of, but the business itself couldn't give a rat's arse about not going to humanitarian shit hole if said places had a ton of money to spend and cared about generating a ton of positive PR. I don't watch football but I follow Formula 1 and we have the exact same issues. There's plans in closing historic F1 races while we're now expanding in totalitarian regimes, like Saudi Arabia, where last year a missile fell miles from the circuit during free practice. These totalitarian, humanitarian shit holes have a ton of money, and money wins over any moral qualms. And no, I will not refrain from calling these like places like that. Of course, I refer to their governments and religious institutions, not the average person that are powerless to institute some change.
- erenyeager 4y ago
  Well how can you say much about a place without visiting? These descriptions can be used for so called “civilized” places. Especially Western countries not even standing by these “civilized” values shows a lot where their hearts are. They’d rather kill millions, exploit economic conditions, and pontificate about ideals they don’t even act in accordance with. It’s propaganda you’ve been fed to assume the rhetoric of civilized vs uncivilized. Really every place has barbarism, some hidden behind arrogance, it seems.
  - sidlls 4y ago
    Every place has barbarism. But the kind and degree matter. There isn’t an equivalence between what, say, China or Qatar are like and the (terrible) practices of, say, the US. And even if there were, tu quoque doesn’t add anything to the discussion.
    - erenyeager 4y ago
      It does matter when people believe and think (out of nationalism, ethnocentrism) that they’re in the paragon of virtue and civilization while everyone else is some backwards people entrapped in darkness… Anyways you can be critical of a place without being arrogant of your own position. Most people writing here about Qatar act as if their own countrymen are amazing when they probably haven’t even visited the middle East! Pure pontification, and no open-mindedness to seeing a holistic view. It dilutes the valid criticisms when people speak out of ignorance.
amelius 4y ago
But I have a Librem Phone ...
- disintegore 4y ago
  Something tells me you're not going to Qatar to attend the World Cup
- mikece 4y ago
  That's fine -- they have plenty ankle bracelets on hand.
- 3np 4y ago
  I'd imagine it'd work similarly to Japan, which also requires a spyware app with wide-reaching permissions during your initial days in the country: you always have the option of picking up a rental phone (at your own cost) on arrival which you carry with you at all times during the mandated period.
Yuioup 4y ago
Covid is a God-given gift to oppressive regimes.
overthemoon 4y ago
Is anyone planning on watching the World Cup this year? Do you think this is worse than normal, in terms of the host country's track record? I always try to catch as much as I can, I really enjoy it, but this year in particular it seems nauseating.
- piva00 4y ago
  Personally I don't plan to watch it. Even though I've always followed the World Cup (and the Eurocup sometimes). I was born in Brazil and over there the World Cup is an event with massive following, to the point where schools and companies allow for off-days or at least dismiss people to watch the national team matches. I simply can't watch this time, morally it has always grated how fucked up FIFA is but I think this was the tipping point for me. Unfortunately I don't see this point of view being shared by most around me, not in Brazil and not here in Sweden. It puzzles me a lot.
- jtr1 4y ago
  I'm planning to sit this one out. Qatar uses forced labor and more than 6500 migrant workers were killed preparing for this World Cup. There's just no joy in watching it whatsoever, only shame.
  - nathanaldensr 4y ago
    Source: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r...
  - thehappypm 4y ago
    What are they making the stadiums out of, lava?
    - kranke155 4y ago
      They die of overheating since they had to do construction under extremely high temperatures. I know someone who built tailor made accounting software for employee tracking involved in the process. This was 5-6 years ago. They did their usual thing but the client came back to them and said they were missing a column for “deaths”. They dutifully added one. He quit the company shortly after. For them it’s just accounting. These are people from India, Bangladesh who work there under desperate conditions.
Havoc 4y ago
Feels like half the cool kids are planning on boycotting this anyway
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  Do you feel the boycott is unwarranted? "The cool kids" is often a negative, mocking phrase.
throw7 4y ago
"access to read, delete or change all content on the phone"... I would think if Android allows an app ability to do that then that's a huge security hole.
- 4ggr0 4y ago
  I assume that Apps like TitaniumBackup or whatever they're called need such permission in order to make Backups of your phone, so it's not that worrysome to me that they exist at all. However, it's definitely weird that this World Cup app needs such permissions. EDIT: Apparently TitaniumBackup needs root access, but I think my point about backups in general still stands.
  - themoonisachees 4y ago
    Android apps can request access to /sdcard/ for things like file managers. Everything else needs root access, or using adb via USB
    - 4ggr0 4y ago
      So this file access permission at most gives access to the whole /sdcard, which does not sound to me like it has to be a bad thing, right?
      - themoonisachees 4y ago
        Kind of? /sdcard/ (a misnomer, it's just really a directory like /home/user/ on unix) perms are asked all the time by apps that don't need it at all because developpers don't understand that apps have their own config directory free of permissions, so they put stuff in /sdcard/ which triggers the perm popup. In this case i'm worried because /sdcard/ perms give acces to all downloads, and all pictures, downloaded or taken. This, coupled with the UAEs track record concerning LGBTQ rights and digital surveillance, adding to the fact there is no discernable reason this app needs /sdcard/ access is troubling. Imagine installing the app, and getting put in prison because you have pictures with your gay partner on it.
kaoussi 4y ago
That's bs btw. You don't have to install any of these 2. Unlike many of you here with strict opinions, I'm actually going to the world cup.
- turndown 4y ago
  >with strict opinions Not really sure what you're trying to prove here.
- themoonisachees 4y ago
  Well, surely you must install the app that holds your ticket to enter the stadium, and surely you must install the covid tracking app or be refused entry even with said ticket app? What are the alternatives?
- halJordan 4y ago
  As the Schneier says in the post: Despite what the article says, I don’t know how mandatory this actually is. I know people who visited Saudi Arabia when that country had a similarly sketchy app requirement. Some of them just didn’t bother downloading the apps, and were never asked about it at the border
z9znz 4y ago
If I were spending the money to go to that event, I would just buy a cheap Android phone just for these apps. Of course, I would even go to that event, for many reasons. There are probably RF bags you can stuff the phone into while not using it too.
rasz 4y ago
Spyware is not scary, being tortured and killed by secret police is. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r... "oh, but Im not a poor migrant worker, wont happen to me!" https://www.arabnews.com/node/2171901/middle-east https://www.arabnews.com/node/2171901/middle-east >A British travel industry expert found hanged in Doha in 2019 told friends he had been arrested and tortured by Qatari secret police 10 weeks before his death, The Times reported on Thursday. >Marc Bennett, 52, had been hired by Qatar Airways to work on improving tourism to the Gulf country ahead of the 2022 FIFA World Cup.
- nextaccountic 4y ago
  Spyware and spying in general can help the regime to pick their targets, so it's indeed very scary.
gruez 4y ago
previously discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33212168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33212168
hw-guy 4y ago
I had to install an app called ArriveCAN to enter Canada; although it's probably innocent compared to Qatar's, I unintalled it upon returning to the US.

82 points by mikece 4y ago

Apparently the one app requires permissions for "an overview of your exact location, the ability to make direct calls via your phone and the ability to disable your screen lock." I've never heard of any app being able to make calls or disable the lock screen. Is that even possible? I suspect maybe on Android?

dundarious 4y ago
I believe the "disable lock screen" permission is to prevent auto-lock, for example while displaying a video or QR code, and does not mean anything like that the app can remotely unlock the phone. The other permissions are certainly concerning.
UncleMeat 4y ago
Disable Lock Screen means disabling the auto shutoff of the screen. This is important for any app that needs to remain constantly visible.
- dawnerd 4y ago
  But is it actually needed or is it a way they can make sure the phone doesn’t lock if they confiscate it?
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    The permission does not give the ability for an app to make a user unable to lock their screen. It enables an app to disable the automatic lock.

josteink 4y ago

If I really needed another reason not to visit a totalitarian, human rights-violations, murderous, anti-gay dictatorship to watch someone play football, this might move the needle. But really, I’m way past that already and I would hope that most other civilized people are as well.

sph 4y ago
The media world and big business in general isn't civilized people. It is composed of, but the business itself couldn't give a rat's arse about not going to humanitarian shit hole if said places had a ton of money to spend and cared about generating a ton of positive PR. I don't watch football but I follow Formula 1 and we have the exact same issues. There's plans in closing historic F1 races while we're now expanding in totalitarian regimes, like Saudi Arabia, where last year a missile fell miles from the circuit during free practice. These totalitarian, humanitarian shit holes have a ton of money, and money wins over any moral qualms. And no, I will not refrain from calling these like places like that. Of course, I refer to their governments and religious institutions, not the average person that are powerless to institute some change.
erenyeager 4y ago
Well how can you say much about a place without visiting? These descriptions can be used for so called “civilized” places. Especially Western countries not even standing by these “civilized” values shows a lot where their hearts are. They’d rather kill millions, exploit economic conditions, and pontificate about ideals they don’t even act in accordance with. It’s propaganda you’ve been fed to assume the rhetoric of civilized vs uncivilized. Really every place has barbarism, some hidden behind arrogance, it seems.
- sidlls 4y ago
  Every place has barbarism. But the kind and degree matter. There isn’t an equivalence between what, say, China or Qatar are like and the (terrible) practices of, say, the US. And even if there were, tu quoque doesn’t add anything to the discussion.
  - erenyeager 4y ago
    It does matter when people believe and think (out of nationalism, ethnocentrism) that they’re in the paragon of virtue and civilization while everyone else is some backwards people entrapped in darkness… Anyways you can be critical of a place without being arrogant of your own position. Most people writing here about Qatar act as if their own countrymen are amazing when they probably haven’t even visited the middle East! Pure pontification, and no open-mindedness to seeing a holistic view. It dilutes the valid criticisms when people speak out of ignorance.

amelius 4y ago

But I have a Librem Phone ...

disintegore 4y ago
Something tells me you're not going to Qatar to attend the World Cup
mikece 4y ago
That's fine -- they have plenty ankle bracelets on hand.
3np 4y ago
I'd imagine it'd work similarly to Japan, which also requires a spyware app with wide-reaching permissions during your initial days in the country: you always have the option of picking up a rental phone (at your own cost) on arrival which you carry with you at all times during the mandated period.

Yuioup 4y ago

Covid is a God-given gift to oppressive regimes.

overthemoon 4y ago

Is anyone planning on watching the World Cup this year? Do you think this is worse than normal, in terms of the host country's track record? I always try to catch as much as I can, I really enjoy it, but this year in particular it seems nauseating.

piva00 4y ago
Personally I don't plan to watch it. Even though I've always followed the World Cup (and the Eurocup sometimes). I was born in Brazil and over there the World Cup is an event with massive following, to the point where schools and companies allow for off-days or at least dismiss people to watch the national team matches. I simply can't watch this time, morally it has always grated how fucked up FIFA is but I think this was the tipping point for me. Unfortunately I don't see this point of view being shared by most around me, not in Brazil and not here in Sweden. It puzzles me a lot.
jtr1 4y ago
I'm planning to sit this one out. Qatar uses forced labor and more than 6500 migrant workers were killed preparing for this World Cup. There's just no joy in watching it whatsoever, only shame.
- nathanaldensr 4y ago
  Source: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r...
- thehappypm 4y ago
  What are they making the stadiums out of, lava?
  - kranke155 4y ago
    They die of overheating since they had to do construction under extremely high temperatures. I know someone who built tailor made accounting software for employee tracking involved in the process. This was 5-6 years ago. They did their usual thing but the client came back to them and said they were missing a column for “deaths”. They dutifully added one. He quit the company shortly after. For them it’s just accounting. These are people from India, Bangladesh who work there under desperate conditions.

Havoc 4y ago

Feels like half the cool kids are planning on boycotting this anyway

paulryanrogers 4y ago
Do you feel the boycott is unwarranted? "The cool kids" is often a negative, mocking phrase.

throw7 4y ago

"access to read, delete or change all content on the phone"... I would think if Android allows an app ability to do that then that's a huge security hole.

4ggr0 4y ago
I assume that Apps like TitaniumBackup or whatever they're called need such permission in order to make Backups of your phone, so it's not that worrysome to me that they exist at all. However, it's definitely weird that this World Cup app needs such permissions. EDIT: Apparently TitaniumBackup needs root access, but I think my point about backups in general still stands.
- themoonisachees 4y ago
  Android apps can request access to /sdcard/ for things like file managers. Everything else needs root access, or using adb via USB
  - 4ggr0 4y ago
    So this file access permission at most gives access to the whole /sdcard, which does not sound to me like it has to be a bad thing, right?
    - themoonisachees 4y ago
      Kind of? /sdcard/ (a misnomer, it's just really a directory like /home/user/ on unix) perms are asked all the time by apps that don't need it at all because developpers don't understand that apps have their own config directory free of permissions, so they put stuff in /sdcard/ which triggers the perm popup. In this case i'm worried because /sdcard/ perms give acces to all downloads, and all pictures, downloaded or taken. This, coupled with the UAEs track record concerning LGBTQ rights and digital surveillance, adding to the fact there is no discernable reason this app needs /sdcard/ access is troubling. Imagine installing the app, and getting put in prison because you have pictures with your gay partner on it.

kaoussi 4y ago

That's bs btw. You don't have to install any of these 2. Unlike many of you here with strict opinions, I'm actually going to the world cup.

turndown 4y ago
>with strict opinions Not really sure what you're trying to prove here.
themoonisachees 4y ago
Well, surely you must install the app that holds your ticket to enter the stadium, and surely you must install the covid tracking app or be refused entry even with said ticket app? What are the alternatives?
halJordan 4y ago
As the Schneier says in the post: Despite what the article says, I don’t know how mandatory this actually is. I know people who visited Saudi Arabia when that country had a similarly sketchy app requirement. Some of them just didn’t bother downloading the apps, and were never asked about it at the border

z9znz 4y ago

If I were spending the money to go to that event, I would just buy a cheap Android phone just for these apps. Of course, I would even go to that event, for many reasons. There are probably RF bags you can stuff the phone into while not using it too.

rasz 4y ago

Spyware is not scary, being tortured and killed by secret police is. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r... "oh, but Im not a poor migrant worker, wont happen to me!" https://www.arabnews.com/node/2171901/middle-east https://www.arabnews.com/node/2171901/middle-east >A British travel industry expert found hanged in Doha in 2019 told friends he had been arrested and tortured by Qatari secret police 10 weeks before his death, The Times reported on Thursday. >Marc Bennett, 52, had been hired by Qatar Airways to work on improving tourism to the Gulf country ahead of the 2022 FIFA World Cup.

nextaccountic 4y ago
Spyware and spying in general can help the regime to pick their targets, so it's indeed very scary.

gruez 4y ago

previously discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33212168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33212168

hw-guy 4y ago

I had to install an app called ArriveCAN to enter Canada; although it's probably innocent compared to Qatar's, I unintalled it upon returning to the US.