27 ms·

No Congress 2022: Looking forward to decentralized alternatives and Camp 2023

165 points by hacka22 4y ago

eimrine 4y ago
What is 37c3? I have only figured up that c3 is "Chaos Communication Congress".
- F30 4y ago
  37C3 is its 37th edition, which is now going to take place in a later year.
  - pantalaimon 4y ago
    Do you think the COVID situation will be any different in 2023?
    - DocTomoe 4y ago
      - pantalaimon 4y ago
        Huh? The next federal election is in 2025
        DocTomoe 4y ago
        Not all governments survive for a whole term.
      - detaro 4y ago
        Congress was not cancelled due to any government rule.
        DocTomoe 4y ago
        Congress was cancelled in anticipation of government rules. It says so in the announcement.
        fhars 4y ago
        No, it was cancelled in anticipation of a new COVID wave that would make a strict hygiene concept necessary, and bacause most of the volunteers wouldn't want to attend such an event. That these measures might also become mandatory was only an additional aspect, but not decisive at all.
        pantalaimon 4y ago
        Government can impose a maximal capacity for events on short notice under the new COVID rules from October https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/themen/coronavirus/infektionsschutzgesetz-2068856 https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/themen/coronavirus/in...
        inductive_magic 4y ago
        >it is foreseeable that strict hygiene requirements will be necessary and in all likelihood mandatory – if an event of the size of the Congress can be approved at all. What might be possible would not be a Congress Sounds like regulations were factored in to me?
        kuschku 4y ago
        The question is not one of whether the government would approve it (they will, they approved Oktoberfest after all), but one of whether the CERT team of the CCC would approve it (and they wouldn't)
    - JoachimS 4y ago
      The CCC organizers probably hope that it will be.
    - elif 4y ago
      It is possible that we will have a viable universal sarbecovirus vaccine by then.
      - superkuh 4y ago
        Or an effective intranasal sars-cov-2 specific vaccines that provides good protection from infection/spread in the upper respiratory mucosa. This is to complement the strong protection against serious disease in the body serum/lower lungs that intramuscular vaccines give. I have high hopes for India's now approved (positive phase 3 trials) adenovirus based one even if astrozenacca's rushed repackaging of theirs as intranasal failed.
- albntomat0 4y ago
  It’s a yearly computer security conference, similar to Defcon and Blackhat. 37 means it would have been the 37th running of the conference.
  - Defitio 4y ago
    While similar also totally different: it also contains political messages and less security focused but technical talks also. Food hacking or 3D printing also.
formerly_proven 4y ago
I feel like it may have been a better idea to move the congress to some time in the summer, because public health restrictions in the winter don't seem to go away. We've had vaccines since early 2021, and the 2021 winter still had restrictions, now we're two years down the road and looking at another wave and another restricted winter. I don't see how it's going to be substantially different for the 2023 winter unless there's some new revolutionary thing (e.g. vaccine that prevents infection and spread) or COVID kills itself through evolution.
- vault 4y ago
  You mean past summer? Because next summer there's already the camp :)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- lxgr 4y ago
  > COVID kills itself through evolution Doesn‘t evolution work the other way around?
  - michaelt 4y ago
    Presumably he means "the dominant strains become more virulent but less lethal, leaving them like colds and flu"
- DocTomoe 4y ago
  Summer is not a good time for a Congress, for large event venues like congress centers tend to be fully booked by then. Which leaves camps - but not everyone loves the idea of camping, and then you got the weather gods to sacrifice to (I vividly remember the thunderstorm evacuation...). Given that virtually every other country in the world seems to have accepted that Covid will be here to stay, Germans will eventually have to take the plunge as well.
  - fs111 4y ago
mnd999 4y ago
Is it normal in Germany to still be cancelling large events due to Covid? That certainly isn't the case in the UK and hasn't been for some time.
- HarryHirsch 4y ago
  The narrative that's coming out of the CDC had been shifting over the last week - get ready for Omicron V2, and Governor Pritzker and others are bringing back mask mandates. It's clear that the government knows stuff we are not ready for. Europe is ahead, as usual, with new Covid variants, so the CCC is adequately prudent.
  - pabs3 4y ago
    Is there any good place for information about emerging variants? The ECDC page mentions a few ones being monitored but no indication of when they were first detected. https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/variants-concern https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/variants-concern
- pantalaimon 4y ago
  There is a new law that allows for stricter Covid regulations between October and April, this can make planning large events a gamble.
  - zoobab 4y ago
    Any link?
    - rerx 4y ago
      https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/themen/coronavirus/infektionsschutzgesetz-2068856 https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/themen/coronavirus/in... Basically, if a state parliament identifies a "concrete danger for the functioning of the health care system", they can impose certain additional measures. For instance "hygiene concepts" for events may be required, next to obligatory mask wearing and social distancing.
skytreader 4y ago
Unfortunate :( I moved to Germany (and Europe) in 2019. I was planning to attend conferences/tech gatherings like this that were previously prohibitive for me once I got settled in but then 2020 had other plans for the world. It was a bit late when I realized this year that conferences and big gatherings are back. Unfortunately the ones I would've attended (PyCon, We Are Developers) were in conflict with other things like a concert that I already paid for. This would've been the first opportunity without a conflict for me. Shame although I can understand (and even sympathize with) the organizers' prudence.
dividedbyzero 4y ago
I get why they do it. Oktoberfest in Munich led to a big Covid surge with hospitals filling up at a dangerous rate, and experience tells that December will be worse, so their event would almost certainly be severely downsized or altogether disallowed by the authorities. Renewed Covid restrictions are already being debated in German politics with the general expectation being that some restrictions like masks and less or no large events will be imposed. Can't do an event at their scale in such an environment, not to speak of pricing issues due to energy etc. that they didn't even go into, but that will almost certainly have played a role as well. All of this really, really sucks. It's a bit sad that they (apparently?) won't be doing a remote replacement, though. I realize you can't do a proper Congress remotely, but having some of the nice things (like the talks) sure beats having none. Not sure how exactly those decentralized events will shape out, but their announcement reads like they're focusing on the in-person elements, so I have to assume they'll be like hackerspace open-door events that cater to the locals.
- kuschku 4y ago
  There will likely be a remote event again, in the style of rc3, but it won't be a congress in the way the 37c3 would have been.
  - zichy 4y ago
    There won't be _one_ remote event again, but multiple decentralized ones.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- happyopossum 4y ago
  > Oktoberfest in Munich led to a big Covid surge with hospitals filling up at a dangerous rate I'm not seeing any evidence anywhere that there were 'dangerous' rates of hospitalizations, unless you consider any increase 'dangerous'. Have any facts to back that up, or is it hyperbole?
turing_complete 4y ago
Weird decision. I am in Germany and no one cares about Covid anymore. I don't think we will have super strict covid measures this winter.
- Defitio 4y ago
  I'm German too and at least here in Munich you still have to wear masks in lots of settings. Public transport, doctors office, in my work office etc. And the discussion around Oktoberfest was quite often in the media. I'm not sure what you mean by 'no one cares about COVID anymore'.
  - wink 4y ago
    Mask usage has gone down to... I'd say 20-30% in the supermarkets I frequent, but I don't think it's completely wrong with the implied exaggeration for effect.
    - Defitio 4y ago
      I sometimes forget it with the superttoo but I do t want to be counted as not caring. I'm not sure this exaggeration paints the right picture. At least in public transport is very visible
  - turing_complete 4y ago
    Masks might be mandated in specific settings, but revealed preference makes it clear: Everybody goes to events, bars, clubs, has private gatherings, there are conventions with tens or hundreds of thousands of people in Germany as we speak. That's what I meant: Most people have moved on from being overly concerned with it. I finally got covid last month. It wasn't fun, but I had worse colds. I think many people experienced the same thing, and so covid morphed from a looming, unknown horror to a known quantity.
- Longhanks 4y ago
  "No super strict measures" == "no one cares anymore", eh? Boarding public transport, trains, busses and so on still requires wearing a mask. I care for covid for as long as governments think half-assed restrictions for the masses are required (or avoid Germany, for that matter).
zoobab 4y ago
Maybe another country can take over the event :-) ?
- Krasnol 4y ago
  You missed the point completely. The reason for them not doing the even is not the country or the regulations but the fact that Covid is a thing and they have a healthy common sense.
glogla 4y ago
[flagged]
rsync 4y ago
Why not permanently move ccc to the opposite season with the opposite disease load ? I never understood the Christmas holiday schedule of kongress and it has kept me from ever attending these past 20+ years … too many other commitments and too crazy a travel season …
- lucb1e 4y ago
  For what it's worth, I always thought the timing was perfect. No other commitments, everyone has holidays, not a soul commuting so roads and trains are empty... the only annoying thing is that absolutely zero stores are open on the 26th so you need to think ahead to bring food for arrival day (welcome to germany, u/lucb1e on his first congress :p). Of course, covid now changes things, but until christmas holidays are in summer (the southern hemisphere could finally have them during their winter season, perhaps we should swap it every other year?), it won't be the case that literally everyone has holidays and it works out so well again.
- ognarb 4y ago
  Because in summer there is the ccc (short for chaos communication camp) https://events.ccc.de/camp/ https://events.ccc.de/camp/
simon_o 4y ago
I rarely see submissions with such a high proportion of flagged/dead posts ... I wonder what it is that brings the crazies out of the woodwork, whenever some congress announcement happens.
extantproject 4y ago
https://archive.ph/twF3P https://archive.ph/twF3P
iconosynclast 4y ago
I see a lot of people being surprised at the risk benefit calculus leading to this decision but not many recognizing that the threat of people getting sick isnt the only issue. having an event like that if there is going to be a mask mandate for example would simply not be any fun in my opinion and I think problems of this nature are a large part of the decision

165 points by hacka22 4y ago

eimrine 4y ago

What is 37c3? I have only figured up that c3 is "Chaos Communication Congress".

F30 4y ago
37C3 is its 37th edition, which is now going to take place in a later year.
- pantalaimon 4y ago
  Do you think the COVID situation will be any different in 2023?
  - DocTomoe 4y ago
    - pantalaimon 4y ago
      Huh? The next federal election is in 2025
      - DocTomoe 4y ago
        Not all governments survive for a whole term.
    - detaro 4y ago
      Congress was not cancelled due to any government rule.
      - DocTomoe 4y ago
        Congress was cancelled in anticipation of government rules. It says so in the announcement.
        fhars 4y ago
        No, it was cancelled in anticipation of a new COVID wave that would make a strict hygiene concept necessary, and bacause most of the volunteers wouldn't want to attend such an event. That these measures might also become mandatory was only an additional aspect, but not decisive at all.
      - pantalaimon 4y ago
        Government can impose a maximal capacity for events on short notice under the new COVID rules from October https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/themen/coronavirus/infektionsschutzgesetz-2068856 https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/themen/coronavirus/in...
      - inductive_magic 4y ago
        >it is foreseeable that strict hygiene requirements will be necessary and in all likelihood mandatory – if an event of the size of the Congress can be approved at all. What might be possible would not be a Congress Sounds like regulations were factored in to me?
        kuschku 4y ago
        The question is not one of whether the government would approve it (they will, they approved Oktoberfest after all), but one of whether the CERT team of the CCC would approve it (and they wouldn't)
  - JoachimS 4y ago
    The CCC organizers probably hope that it will be.
  - elif 4y ago
    It is possible that we will have a viable universal sarbecovirus vaccine by then.
    - superkuh 4y ago
      Or an effective intranasal sars-cov-2 specific vaccines that provides good protection from infection/spread in the upper respiratory mucosa. This is to complement the strong protection against serious disease in the body serum/lower lungs that intramuscular vaccines give. I have high hopes for India's now approved (positive phase 3 trials) adenovirus based one even if astrozenacca's rushed repackaging of theirs as intranasal failed.
albntomat0 4y ago
It’s a yearly computer security conference, similar to Defcon and Blackhat. 37 means it would have been the 37th running of the conference.
- Defitio 4y ago
  While similar also totally different: it also contains political messages and less security focused but technical talks also. Food hacking or 3D printing also.

formerly_proven 4y ago

I feel like it may have been a better idea to move the congress to some time in the summer, because public health restrictions in the winter don't seem to go away. We've had vaccines since early 2021, and the 2021 winter still had restrictions, now we're two years down the road and looking at another wave and another restricted winter. I don't see how it's going to be substantially different for the 2023 winter unless there's some new revolutionary thing (e.g. vaccine that prevents infection and spread) or COVID kills itself through evolution.

vault 4y ago
You mean past summer? Because next summer there's already the camp :)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lxgr 4y ago
> COVID kills itself through evolution Doesn‘t evolution work the other way around?
- michaelt 4y ago
  Presumably he means "the dominant strains become more virulent but less lethal, leaving them like colds and flu"
DocTomoe 4y ago
Summer is not a good time for a Congress, for large event venues like congress centers tend to be fully booked by then. Which leaves camps - but not everyone loves the idea of camping, and then you got the weather gods to sacrifice to (I vividly remember the thunderstorm evacuation...). Given that virtually every other country in the world seems to have accepted that Covid will be here to stay, Germans will eventually have to take the plunge as well.
- fs111 4y ago

mnd999 4y ago

Is it normal in Germany to still be cancelling large events due to Covid? That certainly isn't the case in the UK and hasn't been for some time.

HarryHirsch 4y ago
The narrative that's coming out of the CDC had been shifting over the last week - get ready for Omicron V2, and Governor Pritzker and others are bringing back mask mandates. It's clear that the government knows stuff we are not ready for. Europe is ahead, as usual, with new Covid variants, so the CCC is adequately prudent.
- pabs3 4y ago
  Is there any good place for information about emerging variants? The ECDC page mentions a few ones being monitored but no indication of when they were first detected. https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/variants-concern https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/variants-concern
pantalaimon 4y ago
There is a new law that allows for stricter Covid regulations between October and April, this can make planning large events a gamble.
- zoobab 4y ago
  Any link?
  - rerx 4y ago
    https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/themen/coronavirus/infektionsschutzgesetz-2068856 https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/themen/coronavirus/in... Basically, if a state parliament identifies a "concrete danger for the functioning of the health care system", they can impose certain additional measures. For instance "hygiene concepts" for events may be required, next to obligatory mask wearing and social distancing.

skytreader 4y ago

Unfortunate :( I moved to Germany (and Europe) in 2019. I was planning to attend conferences/tech gatherings like this that were previously prohibitive for me once I got settled in but then 2020 had other plans for the world. It was a bit late when I realized this year that conferences and big gatherings are back. Unfortunately the ones I would've attended (PyCon, We Are Developers) were in conflict with other things like a concert that I already paid for. This would've been the first opportunity without a conflict for me. Shame although I can understand (and even sympathize with) the organizers' prudence.

dividedbyzero 4y ago

I get why they do it. Oktoberfest in Munich led to a big Covid surge with hospitals filling up at a dangerous rate, and experience tells that December will be worse, so their event would almost certainly be severely downsized or altogether disallowed by the authorities. Renewed Covid restrictions are already being debated in German politics with the general expectation being that some restrictions like masks and less or no large events will be imposed. Can't do an event at their scale in such an environment, not to speak of pricing issues due to energy etc. that they didn't even go into, but that will almost certainly have played a role as well. All of this really, really sucks. It's a bit sad that they (apparently?) won't be doing a remote replacement, though. I realize you can't do a proper Congress remotely, but having some of the nice things (like the talks) sure beats having none. Not sure how exactly those decentralized events will shape out, but their announcement reads like they're focusing on the in-person elements, so I have to assume they'll be like hackerspace open-door events that cater to the locals.

kuschku 4y ago
There will likely be a remote event again, in the style of rc3, but it won't be a congress in the way the 37c3 would have been.
- zichy 4y ago
  There won't be _one_ remote event again, but multiple decentralized ones.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
happyopossum 4y ago
> Oktoberfest in Munich led to a big Covid surge with hospitals filling up at a dangerous rate I'm not seeing any evidence anywhere that there were 'dangerous' rates of hospitalizations, unless you consider any increase 'dangerous'. Have any facts to back that up, or is it hyperbole?

turing_complete 4y ago

Weird decision. I am in Germany and no one cares about Covid anymore. I don't think we will have super strict covid measures this winter.

Defitio 4y ago
I'm German too and at least here in Munich you still have to wear masks in lots of settings. Public transport, doctors office, in my work office etc. And the discussion around Oktoberfest was quite often in the media. I'm not sure what you mean by 'no one cares about COVID anymore'.
- wink 4y ago
  Mask usage has gone down to... I'd say 20-30% in the supermarkets I frequent, but I don't think it's completely wrong with the implied exaggeration for effect.
  - Defitio 4y ago
    I sometimes forget it with the superttoo but I do t want to be counted as not caring. I'm not sure this exaggeration paints the right picture. At least in public transport is very visible
- turing_complete 4y ago
  Masks might be mandated in specific settings, but revealed preference makes it clear: Everybody goes to events, bars, clubs, has private gatherings, there are conventions with tens or hundreds of thousands of people in Germany as we speak. That's what I meant: Most people have moved on from being overly concerned with it. I finally got covid last month. It wasn't fun, but I had worse colds. I think many people experienced the same thing, and so covid morphed from a looming, unknown horror to a known quantity.
Longhanks 4y ago
"No super strict measures" == "no one cares anymore", eh? Boarding public transport, trains, busses and so on still requires wearing a mask. I care for covid for as long as governments think half-assed restrictions for the masses are required (or avoid Germany, for that matter).

zoobab 4y ago

Maybe another country can take over the event :-) ?

Krasnol 4y ago
You missed the point completely. The reason for them not doing the even is not the country or the regulations but the fact that Covid is a thing and they have a healthy common sense.

glogla 4y ago

[flagged]

rsync 4y ago

Why not permanently move ccc to the opposite season with the opposite disease load ? I never understood the Christmas holiday schedule of kongress and it has kept me from ever attending these past 20+ years … too many other commitments and too crazy a travel season …

lucb1e 4y ago
For what it's worth, I always thought the timing was perfect. No other commitments, everyone has holidays, not a soul commuting so roads and trains are empty... the only annoying thing is that absolutely zero stores are open on the 26th so you need to think ahead to bring food for arrival day (welcome to germany, u/lucb1e on his first congress :p). Of course, covid now changes things, but until christmas holidays are in summer (the southern hemisphere could finally have them during their winter season, perhaps we should swap it every other year?), it won't be the case that literally everyone has holidays and it works out so well again.
ognarb 4y ago
Because in summer there is the ccc (short for chaos communication camp) https://events.ccc.de/camp/ https://events.ccc.de/camp/

simon_o 4y ago

I rarely see submissions with such a high proportion of flagged/dead posts ... I wonder what it is that brings the crazies out of the woodwork, whenever some congress announcement happens.

extantproject 4y ago

https://archive.ph/twF3P https://archive.ph/twF3P

iconosynclast 4y ago

I see a lot of people being surprised at the risk benefit calculus leading to this decision but not many recognizing that the threat of people getting sick isnt the only issue. having an event like that if there is going to be a mask mandate for example would simply not be any fun in my opinion and I think problems of this nature are a large part of the decision