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Ok so you don't care about the second part of the argument, you don't care about the danger of violating copyright.. The first question though is if training on
by cycomanic 4y ago
Ok so you don't care about the second part of the argument, you don't care about the danger of violating copyright.. The first question though is if training on large bodies of OSS is fair use. Are you saying you don't care about the copyright of your own work either? Or you don't care because you don't publish your work OSS?
- oefrha 4y agoI’m sure I’ve done more to OSS than 95% of commenters here. I publish my code under MIT when possible (and WTFPL for smaller projects), and yes, please train on my work or split out my functions verbatim, they are far less valuable than some people seem to believe. I don’t even care about the attribution part of MIT, it’s simply a nice to have when decent people use my code.
- jakelazaroff 4y agoThis isn’t just about OSS. If I have a public repo on GitHub without a license, you can’t rewrite that code and put it in your project. I own the copyright. The issue is that Copilot will still launder it into your project for you.
- tommek4077 4y agoOefrha just said that his, and probably yours, code is not worth that much if splitted into functions and commentary blocks. The value of software comes from its whole purpose, not your clever email-validation-regex you are so proud of.
- ranguna 4y agoThen why use OSS licenses in the first place? Let's just copy each other's code without attribution.
- tommek4077 4y agoI am totally for this! Will bring everyone forward in general without costing the society as much as this copyright bs.
- ranguna 4y agoEither that or people will stop posting their code publicly.
- pests 4y agoHow many lines of code was the Oracle v Google case? 9?
- forgotpwd16 4y ago>code is not worth that much if splitted into functions Some algorithms in scientific computing require lots of effort to implement as nice, reusable, performant function. Those functions often more important than whatever the whole is doing because it's what most other people will be interested in using.
- LtWorf 4y ago> not your clever email-validation-regex you are so proud of Really? I challenge you to write a correct email validation regex.
- batmanturkey 4y agoSays you. If it’s all just disposable code, WHY ISNT MICROSOFT TRAINING COPILOT ON WINDOWS AND OFFICE CODE?
- notamy 4y agoBecause that code isn't publicly available, just like every private repo on GitHub, and any other company's/person's proprietary/private code?
- jakelazaroff 4y agoAgain, if I put code in a public repo on GitHub and don’t include a license that allows it, you cannot copy that code. It doesn’t matter that you’re able to access it.
- frumper 4y agoCannot is a strong term. Telling me there may be consequences would be more accurate.
- abigail95 4y agoI can claim fair use and short of an injunction there's nothing you can do to stop me.
- ranguna 4y agoClaiming fair use is not a fix all card you can play like that, there are a lot of nuences for that to hold on trial.
- kbelder 4y agoI'm allowed to read it and learn from it. To distill the core concepts and recreate it.
- ranguna 4y ago
- jakelazaroff 4y agoMaybe I’m the worst programmer in the world. It doesn’t matter. My code is still my code, and if I don’t explicitly license it such that you can copy it, you’re not allowed to.
- ranguna 4y agoWait... Shouldn't you use a different license if you don't care about attribution? Creative commons maybe. Just because you, as someone who self proclaimed to have done more OSS than 95% of the commenters here, does not know how to use OSS licenses, doesn't mean that the copyright question being discussed here is a non issue. The issue is that you don't care about what the licenses in your code mean: > I publish my code under MIT when possible (...) please train on my work or split out my functions verbatim (...) I don’t even care about the attribution part of MIT
- oefrha 4y agoI choose MIT because it’s a widely used permissive license most people are confident about using, not because I will personally pursue every clause in it. I will not take action against anyone using my MIT-licensed code without attribution. Having been a member of a very high profile permissively licensed project and having started a few relatively popular ones of my own, I’d say I don’t need to take licensing advice or be called “does not know how to use OSS licenses” from someone who laughably advises using Creative Commons, when Creative Commons itself advises against using CC licenses for source code, except CC0, which is entirely different from CC.
- planede 4y agoThere is MIT-0, a no-attribution variant of the same license.
- ranguna 4y agoMy good, sorry to move away from the topic, but do you realise how childish you look with your comments? I was considering not replying, but here goes nothing.... > not because I will personally pursue every clause in it. Then you are out of the game, because all clauses should be respected, or else you are committing something very close to an illegality when you violate said clauses. If you don't want a specific clause, consult a lawyer and remove it, or use another license. > Creative Commons itself advises against using CC licenses for source code So before your didn't care about respecting clauses and now you do? I could argue: there are some bits of text in CC that make it not a good license for code, but I don't care because I don't respect those clauses. I'm not going to make that argument, because it doesn't make any sense. You either use a license and respect it or you don't.
- gwnywg 4y agoJust because you don't care does not mean others should not care, even if they are less valuable coders than you. I mostly contribute by finding issues and reporting them, does that make me less of a OSS contributor than you? And yet I do care if my private project is used by behemoth like Microsoft without my consent, even if it's only poorly written fizzbuzz. Why? because if I wanted to share it I would publish.
- oefrha 4y agoI was answering the questions “Are you saying you don't care about the copyright of your own work either? Or you don't care because you don't publish your work OSS?” Feel free to care.
- skeaker 4y agoI personally don't care about the copyright of my own work when it comes to code. I publish the majority of my work anonymously with a clause that just says something along the lines of "feel free to use some or all of this without any attribution." Denying others from using my code feels like it goes against the essence of OSS itself. It's like if I found the solution to some complicated math problem but didn't let anyone else see it because it's "mine."
- salawat 4y agoYou are both a scholar, and a gentleperson. Thank you for treating the field like it is instead of some social value extraction platform.