4 ms·

Man, marketing of those tunneling services as VPNs is actually causing damage. Those services are NOT VPNs. Tailscale is very much more like a real VPN than th

by bedast 4y ago

Man, marketing of those tunneling services as VPNs is actually causing damage. Those services are NOT VPNs. Tailscale is very much more like a real VPN than those other things that are pretending to be VPNs.

NoraCodes 4y ago
They definitely are VPNs, just a specific subset of use cases of a VPN.
- bedast 4y ago
  One could possibly apply the VPN label because you go through layers of connections on a private network to go back onto the internet. I did a cursory search of the TOR website and can't find anything labeling it a VPN. But that is one of the big projects that kinda started all of this. In fact, TOR describes an overlay network, and that's how projects like Nebula also describe their functionality. Granted, Nebula is more like a VPN than "VPN providers" also. "VPN providers" provide a service for accessing the public internet as proxies, tunnels, etc, for evading region blocks, getting around privacy destroying things, and all that stuff. I won't knock their value. I've use them when needing internet over an open WIFI access point. I'm generally not involved in activist activities nor otherwise in harms way, so I don't have much else use of them. But I do have use of a virtual private network. As in the core idea of it. I have a private network at home. It's not publicly available. I use Tailscale, currently, to access it when not connected directly to my home network (as in, not at home). My portable device becomes a member of a private network that has access to my private home network. This is a VPN. I really think VPN was (incorrectly) chosen for secured proxy services because it's a simple and familiar name. The marketing using the terms "virtual private network" came far later to describe a way to secure your privacy. But it's diluted the actual technical term.
- dijit 4y ago
  Semantically: those services are acting more like encrypted proxies, with some kind of exit far away from you physically. VPN's are usually used to create Virtual private networks. Extending your LAN across several sites using software, or granting you access to your LAN when you're not physically located close to it. It's hard to imagine why the meaning has changed as much as it has, because even though a consequence of this connection can be that you exit to the internet via your destination networks internet connection; I feel like this isn't the original use case at all, similar to how you can use a chair as a ladder.
  - combyn8tor 4y ago
    I see your point. > encrypted proxies I suggest "encrypted tunnels"
    - bedast 4y ago
      Perhaps something like...stunnel...released in 2000-ish?
  - shp0ngle 4y ago
    In 2022, VPN is mostly about “getting around netflix geoblocking” or “getting around Chinese firewall”
    - brk 4y ago
      Or, "making public/hotel/random wifi less of a security risk", which happens to be my current usage of Tailscale.
  - NoraCodes 4y ago
    > It's hard to imagine why the meaning has changed as much as it has Because the supporting infrastructure was historically called that, and it stuck. Just like how pocket computers are called "phones" because they evolved from telephones.
    - solarkraft 4y ago
      And "Proxy" is already connected with other supporting infrastructure, so it's a bit hard to switch. FWIW I think I'll still try.
    - dijit 4y ago
      > Just like how pocket computers are called "phones" Yeah, that's a really good point. I guess at least we have the modifier "mobile" and "smart" to differentiate the different types of phone (up to and including the pocket computer). I don't think there is a written equivalent of a VPN which is only acting as an exit node.

by bedast 4y ago

NoraCodes 4y ago

They definitely are VPNs, just a specific subset of use cases of a VPN.

bedast 4y ago
One could possibly apply the VPN label because you go through layers of connections on a private network to go back onto the internet. I did a cursory search of the TOR website and can't find anything labeling it a VPN. But that is one of the big projects that kinda started all of this. In fact, TOR describes an overlay network, and that's how projects like Nebula also describe their functionality. Granted, Nebula is more like a VPN than "VPN providers" also. "VPN providers" provide a service for accessing the public internet as proxies, tunnels, etc, for evading region blocks, getting around privacy destroying things, and all that stuff. I won't knock their value. I've use them when needing internet over an open WIFI access point. I'm generally not involved in activist activities nor otherwise in harms way, so I don't have much else use of them. But I do have use of a virtual private network. As in the core idea of it. I have a private network at home. It's not publicly available. I use Tailscale, currently, to access it when not connected directly to my home network (as in, not at home). My portable device becomes a member of a private network that has access to my private home network. This is a VPN. I really think VPN was (incorrectly) chosen for secured proxy services because it's a simple and familiar name. The marketing using the terms "virtual private network" came far later to describe a way to secure your privacy. But it's diluted the actual technical term.
dijit 4y ago
Semantically: those services are acting more like encrypted proxies, with some kind of exit far away from you physically. VPN's are usually used to create Virtual private networks. Extending your LAN across several sites using software, or granting you access to your LAN when you're not physically located close to it. It's hard to imagine why the meaning has changed as much as it has, because even though a consequence of this connection can be that you exit to the internet via your destination networks internet connection; I feel like this isn't the original use case at all, similar to how you can use a chair as a ladder.
- combyn8tor 4y ago
  I see your point. > encrypted proxies I suggest "encrypted tunnels"
  - bedast 4y ago
    Perhaps something like...stunnel...released in 2000-ish?
- shp0ngle 4y ago
  In 2022, VPN is mostly about “getting around netflix geoblocking” or “getting around Chinese firewall”
  - brk 4y ago
    Or, "making public/hotel/random wifi less of a security risk", which happens to be my current usage of Tailscale.
- NoraCodes 4y ago
  > It's hard to imagine why the meaning has changed as much as it has Because the supporting infrastructure was historically called that, and it stuck. Just like how pocket computers are called "phones" because they evolved from telephones.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    And "Proxy" is already connected with other supporting infrastructure, so it's a bit hard to switch. FWIW I think I'll still try.
  - dijit 4y ago
    > Just like how pocket computers are called "phones" Yeah, that's a really good point. I guess at least we have the modifier "mobile" and "smart" to differentiate the different types of phone (up to and including the pocket computer). I don't think there is a written equivalent of a VPN which is only acting as an exit node.