4 ms·

I'll bite. How so?

rvz 4y ago
This is why [0] > The Securities and Exchange Commission announced today that Elon Musk, CEO and Chairman of Silicon Valley-based Tesla Inc., has agreed to settle the securities fraud charge brought by the SEC against him last week. The SEC also today charged Tesla with failing to have required disclosure controls and procedures relating to Musk’s tweets, a charge that Tesla has agreed to settle. Essentially by agreeing to pay for the charges, he already told us he committed securities fraud without admitting it. [0] https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226
- ajdegol 4y ago
  Is that what he was addressing in his TED talk here https://youtu.be/cdZZpaB2kDM https://youtu.be/cdZZpaB2kDM At 27:46 mark?
- phpthrowaway99 4y ago
  Oh yes, and when I paid my speeding ticket last week I proved I was smuggling drugs down the interstate.
  - sarchertech 4y ago
    Well he settled Securities Fraud charges, so it stands to reason there was likely securities fraud. He also had to step down as chairman, appoint 2 new independent directors, and appoint an independent board to oversee his public communications. If you paid a drug smuggling fine and as part of the process admitted to smuggling drugs, I might be inclined to label you a drug smuggler as well.
    - junofan 4y ago
      Why didn’t the SEC negotiate guilt then? After all, they tend to do that.
    - phpthrowaway99 4y ago
      I wouldn't say he settle what I consider "securities fraud" even if that's the technical label, just like I wouldn't say someone that got a speeding ticket violated "federal interstate travel statues" by speeding on I5.
      - sarchertech 4y ago
        But that’s just what securities fraud is though, it’s a very technical violation. The didn’t violate federal interstate travel statutes because a speeding ticket is a local violation. If you said someone who got a speeding ticket violated interstate travel statutes, then sure that fits exactly what they did.
    - voakbasda 4y ago
      It is often cheaper to pay the fine than to fight it. A settlement is positively not an indicator of guilt. In the US, over 90% of cases settle. Do you really think that they are all guilty, or maybe some of them are railroaded by the system and coerced to plea? Let me answer that for you. Lots of innocent people plead to charges that they probably could beat, but the system has been corrupted beyond any reasonable hope of a fair trial.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - sarchertech 4y ago
        Sure he might be innocent, but it’s not likely. You really think the world’s richest man has no reasonable hope of a fair trial. Most people plead because they are either guilty or because they can’t afford to compete with the resources of the prosecution. That’s not the case for Elon.
        voakbasda 4y ago
        I am saying that no one has a decent chance of a fair trial. People plead guilty all the time when they are innocent and can fight. They see that the system is rigged and bow out to limit its damage to their lives.
        sarchertech 4y ago
        You think a man with unlimited resources can’t get a fair trial? There are serious structural problems with our legal system, but almost none of them apply to billionaires. Elon can afford the best lawyers in the world, and unlimited expert witnesses to tell his side of the story. The prosecution has almost none of their usual advantages against a billionaire.
- saberience 4y ago
  But this is basically due to Elons reckless tweeting. It’s quite different to faking the creation of an electric car like Trevor Milton. Elon may be guilty of being an idiot and not thinking before he tweets, but he pushed forward electric cars and rocketry more than any other person currently living I would say.
  - rvz 4y ago
    > But this is basically due to Elons reckless tweeting. It’s quite different to faking the creation of an electric car like Trevor Milton. Securities fraud is fraud. What you said doesn't refute anything on both of them committing securities fraud, which still makes them both fraudsters. Elon Musk didn't file his intentions with the SEC about what he said and he knew it was a lie to investors. > Elon may be guilty of being an idiot and not thinking before he tweets, but he pushed forward electric cars and rocketry more than any other person currently living I would say. The is no amount of apologism to realize that he is a fraudster; that is even before mentioning the FSD Level 5 robo-taxi false promises.
    - IshKebab 4y ago
      There are clearly different levels of fraud. Completely faking a working car is obviously worse than tweets that break SEC rules. The self-driving thing is worse than the tweets I would say, but nobody seems to care about it for some reason. Surely a class action lawsuit is due?
  - piva00 4y ago
    He is not a total hack like Milton but the promises for years that FSD is right around the corner are borderline fraudulent. Reckless tweeting or not, the SEC considers it fraud, at least legally he is a fraudster. Trevor Milton is definitely much more in the Elizabeth Holmes' school of fraud though.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

I'll bite. How so?

rvz 4y ago

This is why [0] > The Securities and Exchange Commission announced today that Elon Musk, CEO and Chairman of Silicon Valley-based Tesla Inc., has agreed to settle the securities fraud charge brought by the SEC against him last week. The SEC also today charged Tesla with failing to have required disclosure controls and procedures relating to Musk’s tweets, a charge that Tesla has agreed to settle. Essentially by agreeing to pay for the charges, he already told us he committed securities fraud without admitting it. [0] https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226

ajdegol 4y ago
Is that what he was addressing in his TED talk here https://youtu.be/cdZZpaB2kDM https://youtu.be/cdZZpaB2kDM At 27:46 mark?
phpthrowaway99 4y ago
Oh yes, and when I paid my speeding ticket last week I proved I was smuggling drugs down the interstate.
- sarchertech 4y ago
  Well he settled Securities Fraud charges, so it stands to reason there was likely securities fraud. He also had to step down as chairman, appoint 2 new independent directors, and appoint an independent board to oversee his public communications. If you paid a drug smuggling fine and as part of the process admitted to smuggling drugs, I might be inclined to label you a drug smuggler as well.
  - junofan 4y ago
    Why didn’t the SEC negotiate guilt then? After all, they tend to do that.
  - phpthrowaway99 4y ago
    I wouldn't say he settle what I consider "securities fraud" even if that's the technical label, just like I wouldn't say someone that got a speeding ticket violated "federal interstate travel statues" by speeding on I5.
    - sarchertech 4y ago
      But that’s just what securities fraud is though, it’s a very technical violation. The didn’t violate federal interstate travel statutes because a speeding ticket is a local violation. If you said someone who got a speeding ticket violated interstate travel statutes, then sure that fits exactly what they did.
  - voakbasda 4y ago
    It is often cheaper to pay the fine than to fight it. A settlement is positively not an indicator of guilt. In the US, over 90% of cases settle. Do you really think that they are all guilty, or maybe some of them are railroaded by the system and coerced to plea? Let me answer that for you. Lots of innocent people plead to charges that they probably could beat, but the system has been corrupted beyond any reasonable hope of a fair trial.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - sarchertech 4y ago
      Sure he might be innocent, but it’s not likely. You really think the world’s richest man has no reasonable hope of a fair trial. Most people plead because they are either guilty or because they can’t afford to compete with the resources of the prosecution. That’s not the case for Elon.
      - voakbasda 4y ago
        I am saying that no one has a decent chance of a fair trial. People plead guilty all the time when they are innocent and can fight. They see that the system is rigged and bow out to limit its damage to their lives.
        sarchertech 4y ago
        You think a man with unlimited resources can’t get a fair trial? There are serious structural problems with our legal system, but almost none of them apply to billionaires. Elon can afford the best lawyers in the world, and unlimited expert witnesses to tell his side of the story. The prosecution has almost none of their usual advantages against a billionaire.
saberience 4y ago
But this is basically due to Elons reckless tweeting. It’s quite different to faking the creation of an electric car like Trevor Milton. Elon may be guilty of being an idiot and not thinking before he tweets, but he pushed forward electric cars and rocketry more than any other person currently living I would say.
- rvz 4y ago
  > But this is basically due to Elons reckless tweeting. It’s quite different to faking the creation of an electric car like Trevor Milton. Securities fraud is fraud. What you said doesn't refute anything on both of them committing securities fraud, which still makes them both fraudsters. Elon Musk didn't file his intentions with the SEC about what he said and he knew it was a lie to investors. > Elon may be guilty of being an idiot and not thinking before he tweets, but he pushed forward electric cars and rocketry more than any other person currently living I would say. The is no amount of apologism to realize that he is a fraudster; that is even before mentioning the FSD Level 5 robo-taxi false promises.
  - IshKebab 4y ago
    There are clearly different levels of fraud. Completely faking a working car is obviously worse than tweets that break SEC rules. The self-driving thing is worse than the tweets I would say, but nobody seems to care about it for some reason. Surely a class action lawsuit is due?
- piva00 4y ago
  He is not a total hack like Milton but the promises for years that FSD is right around the corner are borderline fraudulent. Reckless tweeting or not, the SEC considers it fraud, at least legally he is a fraudster. Trevor Milton is definitely much more in the Elizabeth Holmes' school of fraud though.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]