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For those not in the know the "4080 12GB" as compared to the 4080 16GB was not just the same card with a little less RAM, as you might assume from the name. It

by ac29 4y ago

For those not in the know the "4080 12GB" as compared to the 4080 16GB was not just the same card with a little less RAM, as you might assume from the name. It also had ~20% fewer GPU cores and was significantly slower for that reason.

ErneX 4y ago
Less memory bandwidth too IIRC.
- PartiallyTyped 4y ago
  192bit bus in 2023 on an 80 "class" GPU of all places.
  - westmeal 4y ago
    yeah seriously what were they thinking
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      $$$
  - MikusR 4y ago
    It's not like their greatly increased cache.
mynameisvlad 4y ago
Did they just think it was too good to be a 70 level card? It’s not like they had a 4070 and a 4070Ti and a Super 4070 already and had to figure out another way to market it. I just don’t see the logic in the naming in any way shape or form.
- Spartan-S63 4y ago
  Their price point was too high to be considered a 4070. If they launched it as a 4070, it would be naked price gouging.
  - imiric 4y ago
    > it would be naked price gouging As opposed to the rest of the 40 series cards?
    - PaulHoule 4y ago
      If you divide the cost of the card by the pixel fill rate, the 4090 is a bargain.
      - onli 4y ago
        It is a new series. It is supposed to be cheaper relative to the performance than the ancestor series, not priced as a higher tier.
      - plasticchris 4y ago
        This is a fundamental shift from years past where perf per dollar scaled up every generation. Now they are trying to scale performance while also scaling up price. Only time will tell if the demand is inelastic or not.
        neogodless 4y ago
        The RTX 3090 had an MSRP of $1499, so this is only a 6.7% increase. If there was a fundamental shift, it was when that card launched.
      - filmgirlcw 4y ago
        Meh, only if you accept that the 4090 is really a Titan or a Quadro under another name. And to be fair, I think that it probably is. But that doesn’t match with the consumer designation that we see in these things and so bargain or not, this is a professional card being marketed to consumers. If you’re looking for a pro card and have the cooling and power to support it (not to mention, the workflow needs that could benefit), that’s great. If you’re a gamer or enthusiast, the price is still high enough (not to mention the other changes you might need to make to your rig to support the card) that the actual delta between the potential and what you’ll actually do with the card means you should probably just stick with either a 3090 that is now half the price, or hold out for the other 4000 series cards if you must get a next-gen card.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  they got greedy and every reviewer in existence called them out on it. The price is too high for a 4070 so they called it another 4080 no matter how different it was from the other 4080.
  - chippiewill 4y ago
    They should have just called it a 4075
    - Macha 4y ago
      It probably will be. A 4075, 4080-lite, 4070 super or similar. I don't think their pride and target retail price could stomach calling it the 4070 it clearly is.
  - samstave 4y ago
    What the heck was the price? I paid $1,600 for an evans and Sutherland card with 32 MEGABYTES to run Softimage on NT 4 because I couldn’t afford an SGI in 1997
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      $900. But there was a time when the best GeForce you could get was less than that by a pretty wide margin.
    - LegitShady 4y ago
      in 2018 the 2080 launched at $800 and was seen as extremely overpriced, such that the entire generation of cards sold poorly. There's no reason to cherry pick data points unrelated to current date because you can remember chiselling out your circuits out of stone tablets in 1997. it just isn't relevant.
      - samstave 4y ago
        >>because you can remember chiselling out your circuits out of stone tablets in 1997. I just want you to know I love this comment
- 0x457 4y ago
  I think what they saw is: we're going to release 4080 and not 4080 under 4080 name, that would allow us to claim that 4080 stayed the same MSRP. Except anyone with a brain saw through it and enough content generated, that trick simply wouldn't work anymore.
- filmgirlcw 4y ago
  They thought they could fool people and that the graphics card demand of the last two years would let them coast on this. They were wrong.
- mooman219 4y ago
  Some reddit post looked at the % differences in core count and clock speed relative to each generation. It most closely fit in the spot a 4060Ti would fit in based its specs relative to the actual 4080.
- elabajaba 4y ago
  The 4080 12GB's performance is about the same as where a new 60 series card sits compared to the previous gen 80 series card (60 series tend to be within +-10% of the previous gen 80 series, 4080 12GB is at most a 60ti based on this) The 4080 16GB is around where a 70 series card tends to sit. [0] https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/nvidia_releases_new_benchmarks_for_its_rtx_4080_graphics_cards/1 https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/nvidia_release... Ignore the dlss2 vs dlss3 numbers, just look at the base numbers since dlss3 numbers are interpolated framerates
  - 7speter 4y ago
    Yes, a youtuber who goes by ‘I’m a mac’ made a great (at least I thought) series of videos breaking down how this generations of die sizes compare to previous generations: (The first where he starts comparing generations with graphs) https://youtu.be/9_bqwEy5AQ4 https://youtu.be/9_bqwEy5AQ4 Though I have to wonder, do we want bigger 40 gen dies? The 4090 already guzzles at 400w at full tilt, and gets ar least 200+ fps at pretty much all games except maybe cyberpunk, and can complete video editing workloads at twice the speed of the 3090. Do we need an even bigger lovelace chip?
    - elabajaba 4y ago
      Considering the 4090 gets 95% of the performance in games if you set a 60% powertarget [0](~90% in synthetics), I feel like they just juiced the power draw like crazy to be able to say they had the fastest gpu this generation (same with AMD's Ryzen 7000 CPUs, where you can drop from ~240w to 140w for 95% of the multicore/100% of the single core performance). Also I was playing the Darktide beta, and at 4k I want about double the framerate I currently get on a 6800xt (FSR 1.0 and DLSS (according to friends and comments on reddit+discord) both look bad in it). We're moving past crossgen games at this point too (and UE5 seems very heavy), so for eg. 100+ fps or 4k something in range of ~50% faster than a 3090 would be nice. [0] https://youtu.be/60yFji_GKak?t=876 https://youtu.be/60yFji_GKak?t=876
      - philliphaydon 4y ago
newsclues 4y ago
And slower bus speed for the memory
timbo1642 4y ago
cush 4y ago
Good on Nvidia for owning up to and quickly fixing the marketing mistake
fho 4y ago
Is this still the same chip but with 20% cores disabled due to manufacturing issues? That at least would explain the same name.
- Hamuko 4y ago
  Nope. AD103 vs. AD104. https://www.techpowerup.com/299183/nvidia-ad103-and-ad104-chips-powering-rtx-4080-series-detailed https://www.techpowerup.com/299183/nvidia-ad103-and-ad104-ch...

by ac29 4y ago

ErneX 4y ago

Less memory bandwidth too IIRC.

PartiallyTyped 4y ago
192bit bus in 2023 on an 80 "class" GPU of all places.
- westmeal 4y ago
  yeah seriously what were they thinking
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    $$$
- MikusR 4y ago
  It's not like their greatly increased cache.

mynameisvlad 4y ago

Did they just think it was too good to be a 70 level card? It’s not like they had a 4070 and a 4070Ti and a Super 4070 already and had to figure out another way to market it. I just don’t see the logic in the naming in any way shape or form.

Spartan-S63 4y ago
Their price point was too high to be considered a 4070. If they launched it as a 4070, it would be naked price gouging.
- imiric 4y ago
  > it would be naked price gouging As opposed to the rest of the 40 series cards?
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    If you divide the cost of the card by the pixel fill rate, the 4090 is a bargain.
    - onli 4y ago
      It is a new series. It is supposed to be cheaper relative to the performance than the ancestor series, not priced as a higher tier.
    - plasticchris 4y ago
      This is a fundamental shift from years past where perf per dollar scaled up every generation. Now they are trying to scale performance while also scaling up price. Only time will tell if the demand is inelastic or not.
      - neogodless 4y ago
        The RTX 3090 had an MSRP of $1499, so this is only a 6.7% increase. If there was a fundamental shift, it was when that card launched.
    - filmgirlcw 4y ago
      Meh, only if you accept that the 4090 is really a Titan or a Quadro under another name. And to be fair, I think that it probably is. But that doesn’t match with the consumer designation that we see in these things and so bargain or not, this is a professional card being marketed to consumers. If you’re looking for a pro card and have the cooling and power to support it (not to mention, the workflow needs that could benefit), that’s great. If you’re a gamer or enthusiast, the price is still high enough (not to mention the other changes you might need to make to your rig to support the card) that the actual delta between the potential and what you’ll actually do with the card means you should probably just stick with either a 3090 that is now half the price, or hold out for the other 4000 series cards if you must get a next-gen card.
LegitShady 4y ago
they got greedy and every reviewer in existence called them out on it. The price is too high for a 4070 so they called it another 4080 no matter how different it was from the other 4080.
- chippiewill 4y ago
  They should have just called it a 4075
  - Macha 4y ago
    It probably will be. A 4075, 4080-lite, 4070 super or similar. I don't think their pride and target retail price could stomach calling it the 4070 it clearly is.
- samstave 4y ago
  What the heck was the price? I paid $1,600 for an evans and Sutherland card with 32 MEGABYTES to run Softimage on NT 4 because I couldn’t afford an SGI in 1997
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    $900. But there was a time when the best GeForce you could get was less than that by a pretty wide margin.
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    in 2018 the 2080 launched at $800 and was seen as extremely overpriced, such that the entire generation of cards sold poorly. There's no reason to cherry pick data points unrelated to current date because you can remember chiselling out your circuits out of stone tablets in 1997. it just isn't relevant.
    - samstave 4y ago
      >>because you can remember chiselling out your circuits out of stone tablets in 1997. I just want you to know I love this comment
0x457 4y ago
I think what they saw is: we're going to release 4080 and not 4080 under 4080 name, that would allow us to claim that 4080 stayed the same MSRP. Except anyone with a brain saw through it and enough content generated, that trick simply wouldn't work anymore.
filmgirlcw 4y ago
They thought they could fool people and that the graphics card demand of the last two years would let them coast on this. They were wrong.
mooman219 4y ago
Some reddit post looked at the % differences in core count and clock speed relative to each generation. It most closely fit in the spot a 4060Ti would fit in based its specs relative to the actual 4080.
elabajaba 4y ago
The 4080 12GB's performance is about the same as where a new 60 series card sits compared to the previous gen 80 series card (60 series tend to be within +-10% of the previous gen 80 series, 4080 12GB is at most a 60ti based on this) The 4080 16GB is around where a 70 series card tends to sit. [0] https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/nvidia_releases_new_benchmarks_for_its_rtx_4080_graphics_cards/1 https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/nvidia_release... Ignore the dlss2 vs dlss3 numbers, just look at the base numbers since dlss3 numbers are interpolated framerates
- 7speter 4y ago
  Yes, a youtuber who goes by ‘I’m a mac’ made a great (at least I thought) series of videos breaking down how this generations of die sizes compare to previous generations: (The first where he starts comparing generations with graphs) https://youtu.be/9_bqwEy5AQ4 https://youtu.be/9_bqwEy5AQ4 Though I have to wonder, do we want bigger 40 gen dies? The 4090 already guzzles at 400w at full tilt, and gets ar least 200+ fps at pretty much all games except maybe cyberpunk, and can complete video editing workloads at twice the speed of the 3090. Do we need an even bigger lovelace chip?
  - elabajaba 4y ago
    Considering the 4090 gets 95% of the performance in games if you set a 60% powertarget [0](~90% in synthetics), I feel like they just juiced the power draw like crazy to be able to say they had the fastest gpu this generation (same with AMD's Ryzen 7000 CPUs, where you can drop from ~240w to 140w for 95% of the multicore/100% of the single core performance). Also I was playing the Darktide beta, and at 4k I want about double the framerate I currently get on a 6800xt (FSR 1.0 and DLSS (according to friends and comments on reddit+discord) both look bad in it). We're moving past crossgen games at this point too (and UE5 seems very heavy), so for eg. 100+ fps or 4k something in range of ~50% faster than a 3090 would be nice. [0] https://youtu.be/60yFji_GKak?t=876 https://youtu.be/60yFji_GKak?t=876
    - philliphaydon 4y ago

newsclues 4y ago

And slower bus speed for the memory

timbo1642 4y ago

cush 4y ago

Good on Nvidia for owning up to and quickly fixing the marketing mistake

fho 4y ago

Is this still the same chip but with 20% cores disabled due to manufacturing issues? That at least would explain the same name.

Hamuko 4y ago
Nope. AD103 vs. AD104. https://www.techpowerup.com/299183/nvidia-ad103-and-ad104-chips-powering-rtx-4080-series-detailed https://www.techpowerup.com/299183/nvidia-ad103-and-ad104-ch...