8 ms·

Blind is such a toxic place... I always come off shocked at how awful people are on there. Only focused on "TC", and nothing else.

davewritescode 4y ago
Blind self selects for people who want to brag about how much they're paid and people who think they're underpaid who want to validate those assumptions. It leads to a toxic community. There's so much more to work than compensation and this post proves it. Being on a good team is 100x more important than what you're paid. Good teams elevate engineers and give you a better career path in your future. I make SL level compensation and non-SL level companies because my value is high, not because my employer can overpay for mediocrity. There's too many engineers who think the secret to success is to get hired at the right company and then they just sail on to a dream career. I've worked with enough people from those big companies who left, some after long careers, to know that it's simply not true. A lot of people see the impactful work that happens at these big companies and assume that's the impact they'll make as well. What they don't get is those big companies literally poach PhDs or buy smaller companies to get that kind of talent.
- ohgodplsno 4y ago
  For many devs, especially non SV people (or even non US people), a TC of 250k+ is more than life changing. It's "I never could have ever gotten this, and not only is my life set, the people around me are too". Needless to say, if I was offered these compensations (or higher), I'll gladly take even 10 years of incompetence around me to then be able to do fuck all for the rest of my life (or, well, things I actually enjoy doing, not for a megacorporation). Being an elevated engineer doesn't pay the bills.
  - morelandjs 4y ago
    Very true. Golden handcuffs is an option, but you can also just liberate yourself from financial stress and help the people around you who need it. Not everyone is chasing a BMW or bragging rights.
  - yodsanklai 4y ago
    > a TC of 250k+ is more than life changing. It doesn't get you that far. Consider tax and cost of life in NYC/SF/London where you won't be able to buy a house anyway, and you're left with 50k to save a year. In other places, you're less likely to get such a TC. Sure, it's a lot of money, but not enough to change your social status. It adds up if you manage to stay long enough there, but considering ageism and burning out, you're not in the same leagues as let say doctors, or people who inherited 1 million after selling their parents house.
    - za3faran 4y ago
      How much do you think doctors make? Unless they specialize and spend another 5+ years pursuing it, they're in the 100K-250K range anyway depending on location.
      - sfashset 4y ago
        Sorry but you’re completely wrong about both your 5 years comment and your income range. For a more realistic look at physician income see https://www.offerdx.com/ https://www.offerdx.com/
        djkivi 4y ago
        Family medicine $270k. Doesn’t seem that far off.
        yodsanklai 4y ago
        There are two big differences. Family doctor can work easily until 65. And they don't need to live in the most expensive cities in the world. For comparaison, there are extremely few SWEs in FAANG over 50 years old.
        hnfong 4y ago
        Extremely few? If the company only existed for less than 20 years and founded by a bunch of college dropouts, you wouldn't have many workers over 50. You're mistaking the exponential growth of the SWE "profession" with Ageism.
  - wobbly_bush 4y ago
    That TC might be life changing if they earned that much in their current cities/towns. That TC would involve moving to SV and the associated costs of living in SV - specially housing.
- 22SAS 4y ago
  >Blind self selects for people who want to brag about how much they're paid Spot on! It's a race for them to keep moving up the TC ladder and then show off within their social circles. Their all now on to the new fad i.e working at HFT firms. I work at one and the questions I see on Blind, regarding HFT's, is a source of constant laughter for those of us in the industry. Some great examples: "I have never written a line of production C++. If I do leetcode in C++ will that get me a job working on ultra low-latency systems?".
- oreally 4y ago
  It's the inner and dirtiest aspects of the software engineer ego. It's amazing how scummy and holier than thou people really are in private.
yellow_lead 4y ago
Well, it's not like people join Meta to "make the world a better place" lol.
aantix 4y ago
If you're working for someone else's dream, what else is there? "TC" gives me and my family options to do other big things in the world. Yes, I want to take two big family vacations a year, live in a great neighborhood/ school district, and give my kids extra opportunities. Optimizing for "TC" makes sense.
- karamanolev 4y ago
  Being an IC doesn't inherently conflict with enjoying your work. Yes, TC is important and as you pointed out, it gives you options to do other things. OTOH, thinking that "someone else's dream" must necessarily be an awful daily grind is a folly - many people enjoy software engineering and it doesn't bother them that it's "someone else's dream". Being technically challenged brings them joy. Going one step further, you can actually enjoy the mission and the impact of your work, so not only is the process nice, but the result as well.
- davewritescode 4y ago
  This is nihilistic and short sighted way to see the world. Being highly visible inside and outside my company has opened up more opportunity long term in terms of being offered consulting roles and opportunities in early stage startups then being a worker bee at Amazon for 2 years until you burnout. I know many people who have taken that route and it's one of many paths. If you're a good engineer and can sell your work, contribute visibly to open source projects in your area of expertise and can present at conferences you'll have more opportunities than a worker bee at FAANG. Someone out there is building the next big thing and if you're focusing just on getting the biggest paycheck you'll be watching from the outside.
  - mataug 4y ago
    If optimizing for TC is a nihilistic way to see the world, your take is naïve. The reality is that even if someone is a good engineer, they may not always have the right opportunities, they may struggle to sell their work, or they may have other challenges that we cannot foresee. With such unpredictability in mind, all advice here on HN is anecdotal, and everyone has to optimize for their specific situation. Optimizing for TC isn't necessarily bad, it may be the only option at a better life for some people.
yodsanklai 4y ago
It's the anti LinkedIn where everybody is kissing asses.
22SAS 4y ago
Blind is mostly Indian and some Chinese. Two cultures that care a shit load about money and prestige. I would know, I am from one of those cultures.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
What is "TC" ?
- LaffertyDev 4y ago
  Total Compensation. It lets people compare compensation across companies and normally includes Salary + Options + Bonuses. Different companies offer different mixes, so just relying on salary alone is not a good metric for comparison.
- dvirsky 4y ago
  Total Compensation
dvirsky 4y ago
I avoid it at all costs most of the time. Whenever I do break and go there I usually get so depressed.
wiseowise 4y ago
You’re shocked that people who work for money care only about money?
carabiner 4y ago
Search "thank you blind." It's incredible how much additional TC has improved people's lives. They can cover their kids' tuition and take care of ailing parents. Even wellness programs at the better companies have helped people lose weight and avoid chronic illness. The advice to get there is toxic for a toxic world. This is why the hyper politically correct LinkedIn is so useless in comparison.

davewritescode 4y ago

Blind self selects for people who want to brag about how much they're paid and people who think they're underpaid who want to validate those assumptions. It leads to a toxic community. There's so much more to work than compensation and this post proves it. Being on a good team is 100x more important than what you're paid. Good teams elevate engineers and give you a better career path in your future. I make SL level compensation and non-SL level companies because my value is high, not because my employer can overpay for mediocrity. There's too many engineers who think the secret to success is to get hired at the right company and then they just sail on to a dream career. I've worked with enough people from those big companies who left, some after long careers, to know that it's simply not true. A lot of people see the impactful work that happens at these big companies and assume that's the impact they'll make as well. What they don't get is those big companies literally poach PhDs or buy smaller companies to get that kind of talent.

ohgodplsno 4y ago
For many devs, especially non SV people (or even non US people), a TC of 250k+ is more than life changing. It's "I never could have ever gotten this, and not only is my life set, the people around me are too". Needless to say, if I was offered these compensations (or higher), I'll gladly take even 10 years of incompetence around me to then be able to do fuck all for the rest of my life (or, well, things I actually enjoy doing, not for a megacorporation). Being an elevated engineer doesn't pay the bills.
- morelandjs 4y ago
  Very true. Golden handcuffs is an option, but you can also just liberate yourself from financial stress and help the people around you who need it. Not everyone is chasing a BMW or bragging rights.
- yodsanklai 4y ago
  > a TC of 250k+ is more than life changing. It doesn't get you that far. Consider tax and cost of life in NYC/SF/London where you won't be able to buy a house anyway, and you're left with 50k to save a year. In other places, you're less likely to get such a TC. Sure, it's a lot of money, but not enough to change your social status. It adds up if you manage to stay long enough there, but considering ageism and burning out, you're not in the same leagues as let say doctors, or people who inherited 1 million after selling their parents house.
  - za3faran 4y ago
    How much do you think doctors make? Unless they specialize and spend another 5+ years pursuing it, they're in the 100K-250K range anyway depending on location.
    - sfashset 4y ago
      Sorry but you’re completely wrong about both your 5 years comment and your income range. For a more realistic look at physician income see https://www.offerdx.com/ https://www.offerdx.com/
      - djkivi 4y ago
        Family medicine $270k. Doesn’t seem that far off.
        yodsanklai 4y ago
        There are two big differences. Family doctor can work easily until 65. And they don't need to live in the most expensive cities in the world. For comparaison, there are extremely few SWEs in FAANG over 50 years old.
        hnfong 4y ago
        Extremely few? If the company only existed for less than 20 years and founded by a bunch of college dropouts, you wouldn't have many workers over 50. You're mistaking the exponential growth of the SWE "profession" with Ageism.
- wobbly_bush 4y ago
  That TC might be life changing if they earned that much in their current cities/towns. That TC would involve moving to SV and the associated costs of living in SV - specially housing.
22SAS 4y ago
>Blind self selects for people who want to brag about how much they're paid Spot on! It's a race for them to keep moving up the TC ladder and then show off within their social circles. Their all now on to the new fad i.e working at HFT firms. I work at one and the questions I see on Blind, regarding HFT's, is a source of constant laughter for those of us in the industry. Some great examples: "I have never written a line of production C++. If I do leetcode in C++ will that get me a job working on ultra low-latency systems?".
oreally 4y ago
It's the inner and dirtiest aspects of the software engineer ego. It's amazing how scummy and holier than thou people really are in private.

yellow_lead 4y ago

Well, it's not like people join Meta to "make the world a better place" lol.

aantix 4y ago

If you're working for someone else's dream, what else is there? "TC" gives me and my family options to do other big things in the world. Yes, I want to take two big family vacations a year, live in a great neighborhood/ school district, and give my kids extra opportunities. Optimizing for "TC" makes sense.

karamanolev 4y ago
Being an IC doesn't inherently conflict with enjoying your work. Yes, TC is important and as you pointed out, it gives you options to do other things. OTOH, thinking that "someone else's dream" must necessarily be an awful daily grind is a folly - many people enjoy software engineering and it doesn't bother them that it's "someone else's dream". Being technically challenged brings them joy. Going one step further, you can actually enjoy the mission and the impact of your work, so not only is the process nice, but the result as well.
davewritescode 4y ago
This is nihilistic and short sighted way to see the world. Being highly visible inside and outside my company has opened up more opportunity long term in terms of being offered consulting roles and opportunities in early stage startups then being a worker bee at Amazon for 2 years until you burnout. I know many people who have taken that route and it's one of many paths. If you're a good engineer and can sell your work, contribute visibly to open source projects in your area of expertise and can present at conferences you'll have more opportunities than a worker bee at FAANG. Someone out there is building the next big thing and if you're focusing just on getting the biggest paycheck you'll be watching from the outside.
- mataug 4y ago
  If optimizing for TC is a nihilistic way to see the world, your take is naïve. The reality is that even if someone is a good engineer, they may not always have the right opportunities, they may struggle to sell their work, or they may have other challenges that we cannot foresee. With such unpredictability in mind, all advice here on HN is anecdotal, and everyone has to optimize for their specific situation. Optimizing for TC isn't necessarily bad, it may be the only option at a better life for some people.

yodsanklai 4y ago

It's the anti LinkedIn where everybody is kissing asses.

22SAS 4y ago

Blind is mostly Indian and some Chinese. Two cultures that care a shit load about money and prestige. I would know, I am from one of those cultures.

jjtheblunt 4y ago

What is "TC" ?

LaffertyDev 4y ago
Total Compensation. It lets people compare compensation across companies and normally includes Salary + Options + Bonuses. Different companies offer different mixes, so just relying on salary alone is not a good metric for comparison.
dvirsky 4y ago
Total Compensation

dvirsky 4y ago

I avoid it at all costs most of the time. Whenever I do break and go there I usually get so depressed.

wiseowise 4y ago

You’re shocked that people who work for money care only about money?

carabiner 4y ago

Search "thank you blind." It's incredible how much additional TC has improved people's lives. They can cover their kids' tuition and take care of ailing parents. Even wellness programs at the better companies have helped people lose weight and avoid chronic illness. The advice to get there is toxic for a toxic world. This is why the hyper politically correct LinkedIn is so useless in comparison.