7 ms·

The man who got his party to government off the back of promising to abolish tuition fees, then immediately tripled tuition fees landing an entire generation wi

The man who got his party to government off the back of promising to abolish tuition fees, then immediately tripled tuition fees landing an entire generation with massive debt has questionable character. Who’d’ve thunk it?

sideshowb 4y ago
It was a coalition, though, and whatever he betrayed for that, you could argue he might have prevented the Tories from running an even worse government than they did during those years. Given what's happened afterwards, the evidence would be on your side. For all that, I think he made a serious mistake going into coalition with the Tories when he could equally well (going on election results) have done so with Labour (plus possibly SNP I forget), whose policies I thought should have better aligned with Lib Dem. But I'm assuming the best of intent here, and will continue to do so until proven otherwise, so this case is an interesting development.
- thorin 4y ago
  From what I remember due to the figures if he'd gone with Labour it would have been a massively rainbow coalition. I think he got conned by the superior sliming skills of some of the tories and saw a bit of power, then messed up. He went all out to try for proportional representation giving up all other policies and then the tories were able to market that as looking so bad or just uninteresting that the majority either didn't understand the vote or didn't care, so it lost.
  - kennyadam 4y ago
    There's an interesting article from the time here: https://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/brown%2Bexit%2Braises%2Bhope%2Bof%2Ba%2Bliblab%2Bcoalition/3643687.html https://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_pol...
- talldan 4y ago
  Clegg voted for raising tuition fees, in direct contradiction to the pledges. It was a betrayal and one that's on public record. Cameron was a disaster. Austerity was incredibly cruel on the poorest of the population, and the UK wasn't exactly a shining light in its recovery from the financial crisis. He led a weak remain campaign and then stepped aside as soon as Brexit became difficult, and the following governments have had to deal with his mess, the covid outbreak and the effects of the war in Ukraine. So I think you could equally say that the coalition is a root cause of many of the issues of today. That and the lack of any credible opposition for years.
  - specialist 4y ago
    I don't have a dog in this fight. For other lurkers like me, here's some background: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg#Tuition_fees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg#Tuition_fees
  - lambertsimnel 4y ago
    > Cameron was a disaster. Austerity was incredibly cruel on the poorest of the population, and the UK wasn't exactly a shining light in its recovery from the financial crisis. Although austerity did indeed start under the coalition (so it has the Lib Dems' fingerprints on it), didn't much of what many dislike about Cameron's premiership stem from after the end of the coalition? > He led a weak remain campaign and then stepped aside as soon as Brexit became difficult, and the following governments have had to deal with his mess He was rumoured to have campaigned in the 2015 general election on the assumption he'd renew the coalition with the Lib Dems, who would block the EU referendum he'd promised his voters, and who he could continue using as a human shield. But the backlash against the Lib Dems after just one term of coalition with him was so severe that he had to lead a single-party majority government and uphold his negotiating position as if it were a plan for government.
- rjsw 4y ago
  There were not the numbers of MPs to be able to form a coalition with Labour, a better solution could have been to just support the Tories with a confidence and supply [1] agreement. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_and_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_and_supply
  - lambertsimnel 4y ago
    I get the impression Clegg was concerned about any Prime Minister (whether put in place by a coalition, by a confidence and supply deal, or as head of a minority government) calling an early election just as soon as polls indicated it would be to their advantage. Partisan elections being a zero-sum game, that would be to the disadvantage of other parties, likely disproportionately including the junior party of any deal. This was before the Fixed-Term Parliament Act, and some of Clegg's energy, attention and political capital went into that act, rather than into electoral reform, tuition fees, etc.
  - cjrp 4y ago
    How well has that worked out for the DUP though?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
chriswarbo 4y ago
As a junior part of a coalition, they could only get through a few policies. The media put a lot of focus on tuition fees, but they weren't high up the Lib Dem agenda (e.g. the first mention in their manifesto[0] was on page 33). In contrast, the Lib Dems did manage to pass same-sex marriage (frustratingly, many seem to credit the Tories or Cameron for this despite a majority of Tories voting against it at both readings[1]). The Lib Dems also managed to block the Digital Economy Bill, AKA the "Snoopers Charter" (the Tories later passed it, once they got a majority in parliament). The Lib Dem's top priority has always been voting reform, and Clegg seemed to gamble away far too much in an attempt to get it. All they managed was a referendum on a watered-down AV system (AFAIK the Lib Dems want STV, as used by Northern Ireland); which was heavily campaigned against by both Labour and Tories, and failed spectacularly :( [0] https://general-election-2010.co.uk/2010-general-election-manifestos/Liberal-Democrat-Party-Manifesto-2010.pdf https://general-election-2010.co.uk/2010-general-election-ma... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_(Same_Sex_Couples)_Act_2013 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_(Same_Sex_Couples)_Ac...
- smcl 4y ago
  It might not have been high up in their agenda, but it was still there and every single Lib Dem MP signed the Vote for Students pledge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_for_Students_pledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_for_Students_pledge) in support of it. So no matter what the outcome was, generations of students have incurred fairly ridiculous levels of debt as a result and many hold the Lib Dems responsible and feel betrayed. They may have been powerless to stop it, or they may have been ineffective - but the damage is done either way
- gadders 4y ago
  I think the Lib Dems rapidly found the difference between being in permanent opposition and being able to promise what they like, and being in government where hard choices need to be made.
  - rwmj 4y ago
    That's the story of Brexit too.
rvieira 4y ago
Not excusing his role on this, but for a better appreciation of the coalition dynamics I recommend "The Thick of It" series 4.
- jen20 4y ago
  I really hope they do another season covering the last year or two of British politics. One of the best shows ever made.
  - mjfisher 4y ago
    How could they? It would be indistinguishable from a documentary at this point.
    - jen20 4y ago
      It always was - that’s the beauty of it.
Oarch 4y ago
I briefly met Nick Clegg at a private event once. My first impression was that he was surprisingly posh for a 'man of the people'. Big Oxford energy.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > Big Oxford energy. He was Cambridge.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Big Oxbridge energy.
  - mijoharas 4y ago
    Shhh! Don't tell people that. Oxford can have him.
  - Oarch 4y ago
    I was more describing the energy.
- reducesuffering 4y ago
  No “man of the people” moves to Atherton, CA. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/inside-nick-cleggs-7million-mansion-13909334 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/inside-nick-cleggs-7mi...

sideshowb 4y ago

It was a coalition, though, and whatever he betrayed for that, you could argue he might have prevented the Tories from running an even worse government than they did during those years. Given what's happened afterwards, the evidence would be on your side. For all that, I think he made a serious mistake going into coalition with the Tories when he could equally well (going on election results) have done so with Labour (plus possibly SNP I forget), whose policies I thought should have better aligned with Lib Dem. But I'm assuming the best of intent here, and will continue to do so until proven otherwise, so this case is an interesting development.

thorin 4y ago
From what I remember due to the figures if he'd gone with Labour it would have been a massively rainbow coalition. I think he got conned by the superior sliming skills of some of the tories and saw a bit of power, then messed up. He went all out to try for proportional representation giving up all other policies and then the tories were able to market that as looking so bad or just uninteresting that the majority either didn't understand the vote or didn't care, so it lost.
- kennyadam 4y ago
  There's an interesting article from the time here: https://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/brown%2Bexit%2Braises%2Bhope%2Bof%2Ba%2Bliblab%2Bcoalition/3643687.html https://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_pol...
talldan 4y ago
Clegg voted for raising tuition fees, in direct contradiction to the pledges. It was a betrayal and one that's on public record. Cameron was a disaster. Austerity was incredibly cruel on the poorest of the population, and the UK wasn't exactly a shining light in its recovery from the financial crisis. He led a weak remain campaign and then stepped aside as soon as Brexit became difficult, and the following governments have had to deal with his mess, the covid outbreak and the effects of the war in Ukraine. So I think you could equally say that the coalition is a root cause of many of the issues of today. That and the lack of any credible opposition for years.
- specialist 4y ago
  I don't have a dog in this fight. For other lurkers like me, here's some background: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg#Tuition_fees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg#Tuition_fees
- lambertsimnel 4y ago
  > Cameron was a disaster. Austerity was incredibly cruel on the poorest of the population, and the UK wasn't exactly a shining light in its recovery from the financial crisis. Although austerity did indeed start under the coalition (so it has the Lib Dems' fingerprints on it), didn't much of what many dislike about Cameron's premiership stem from after the end of the coalition? > He led a weak remain campaign and then stepped aside as soon as Brexit became difficult, and the following governments have had to deal with his mess He was rumoured to have campaigned in the 2015 general election on the assumption he'd renew the coalition with the Lib Dems, who would block the EU referendum he'd promised his voters, and who he could continue using as a human shield. But the backlash against the Lib Dems after just one term of coalition with him was so severe that he had to lead a single-party majority government and uphold his negotiating position as if it were a plan for government.
rjsw 4y ago
There were not the numbers of MPs to be able to form a coalition with Labour, a better solution could have been to just support the Tories with a confidence and supply [1] agreement. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_and_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_and_supply
- lambertsimnel 4y ago
  I get the impression Clegg was concerned about any Prime Minister (whether put in place by a coalition, by a confidence and supply deal, or as head of a minority government) calling an early election just as soon as polls indicated it would be to their advantage. Partisan elections being a zero-sum game, that would be to the disadvantage of other parties, likely disproportionately including the junior party of any deal. This was before the Fixed-Term Parliament Act, and some of Clegg's energy, attention and political capital went into that act, rather than into electoral reform, tuition fees, etc.
- cjrp 4y ago
  How well has that worked out for the DUP though?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

chriswarbo 4y ago

As a junior part of a coalition, they could only get through a few policies. The media put a lot of focus on tuition fees, but they weren't high up the Lib Dem agenda (e.g. the first mention in their manifesto[0] was on page 33). In contrast, the Lib Dems did manage to pass same-sex marriage (frustratingly, many seem to credit the Tories or Cameron for this despite a majority of Tories voting against it at both readings[1]). The Lib Dems also managed to block the Digital Economy Bill, AKA the "Snoopers Charter" (the Tories later passed it, once they got a majority in parliament). The Lib Dem's top priority has always been voting reform, and Clegg seemed to gamble away far too much in an attempt to get it. All they managed was a referendum on a watered-down AV system (AFAIK the Lib Dems want STV, as used by Northern Ireland); which was heavily campaigned against by both Labour and Tories, and failed spectacularly :( [0] https://general-election-2010.co.uk/2010-general-election-manifestos/Liberal-Democrat-Party-Manifesto-2010.pdf https://general-election-2010.co.uk/2010-general-election-ma... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_(Same_Sex_Couples)_Act_2013 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_(Same_Sex_Couples)_Ac...

smcl 4y ago
It might not have been high up in their agenda, but it was still there and every single Lib Dem MP signed the Vote for Students pledge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_for_Students_pledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_for_Students_pledge) in support of it. So no matter what the outcome was, generations of students have incurred fairly ridiculous levels of debt as a result and many hold the Lib Dems responsible and feel betrayed. They may have been powerless to stop it, or they may have been ineffective - but the damage is done either way
gadders 4y ago
I think the Lib Dems rapidly found the difference between being in permanent opposition and being able to promise what they like, and being in government where hard choices need to be made.
- rwmj 4y ago
  That's the story of Brexit too.

rvieira 4y ago

Not excusing his role on this, but for a better appreciation of the coalition dynamics I recommend "The Thick of It" series 4.

jen20 4y ago
I really hope they do another season covering the last year or two of British politics. One of the best shows ever made.
- mjfisher 4y ago
  How could they? It would be indistinguishable from a documentary at this point.
  - jen20 4y ago
    It always was - that’s the beauty of it.

Oarch 4y ago

I briefly met Nick Clegg at a private event once. My first impression was that he was surprisingly posh for a 'man of the people'. Big Oxford energy.

chrisseaton 4y ago
> Big Oxford energy. He was Cambridge.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Big Oxbridge energy.
- mijoharas 4y ago
  Shhh! Don't tell people that. Oxford can have him.
- Oarch 4y ago
  I was more describing the energy.
reducesuffering 4y ago
No “man of the people” moves to Atherton, CA. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/inside-nick-cleggs-7million-mansion-13909334 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/inside-nick-cleggs-7mi...