7 ms·

In other words, they are withholding improvements to the job from the first workers who unionized. This gives them something to trade in bargaining, but perhaps

In other words, they are withholding improvements to the job from the first workers who unionized. This gives them something to trade in bargaining, but perhaps just as importantly signals to other workers that they will play hardball with anyone who demands a seat at the table.

asdfasgasdgasdg 4y ago
Does the unionized store have a contract with apple already? If so, it would seem like until the contract is up, apple should continue operating under the terms of that contract with respect to the unionized store.
- bwestergard 4y ago
  They are currently bargaining a first contract.
  - collegeburner 4y ago
    so it makes sense they are keeping it for negotiations then.
    - bwestergard 4y ago
      I suppose you could say it "makes sense" if you confine your field of view to one round of bargaining at one employer who is interested in minimizing short-term labor costs. But does it even make sense for Apple managers/investors on a longer time horizon? Is it part of an approach that's good for the wider world?
      - asdfasgasdgasdg 4y ago
        For better or worse we don't globally optimize during an adversarial two party negotiation. We seek a local equilibrium. It's hard to fault apple for this since any other model would ultimately require a reorganized society to work on a long term basis. Apple can't do that unilaterally. And as for the idea of freely giving concessions to unions to avoid bad news cycles: it's been tried and the results are not always fiscally ideal.
pydry 4y ago
It's more likely they will give a better deal overall to the unionized store but they will spin the hell out of it to the non unionized stores that the extra $1k they earn isnt really worth it because they dont get a fossball table, free coffee and bonuses that could be up to $1k. A company I worked for used these kinds of tactics to try and convert contractors into perm. They talked as if the perks were 3-10x as valuable as they actually were. Apple will also probably also try to keep the wages quiet but publicize the perks (or lack thereof) pour decourager les autres.
Alupis 4y ago
You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Apple is willing to provide these Employee Perks to everyone, but the Union will still insist on getting something out of their collective bargaining agreement. Therefore this just became the something. It's that simple. Unions are not always automatically a good thing folks. For every good union story out there, there are an equal amount of bad union stories. As a union member, you give up your rights to negotiate things directly with your employer, which include receiving new perks. Now your union has to do the negotiating, and you better hope they get what you want out of it.
- threeseed 4y ago
  > For every good union story out there, there are an equal amount of bad union stories Do you have empirical evidence for this claim ? Because when you look back over time many fundamental workers rights came from union involvement.
  - ejb999 4y ago
    >>Do you have empirical evidence for this claim ? Do you have empirical evidence that this is not true?
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      Yes, they just presented that evidence to you: > Because when you look back over time many fundamental workers rights came from union involvement.
      - Alupis 4y ago
        I don't think we're in any danger now, in 2022 of returning to 18 hour work days and acceptable workplace deaths. Yes, unions helped usher in a new age of employee rights, and we are all thankful for them. However, in the absence of anything real to fight for, unions in the modern day have increasingly become more of a nuisance than a necessity - for both the employee and employer side.

asdfasgasdgasdg 4y ago

Does the unionized store have a contract with apple already? If so, it would seem like until the contract is up, apple should continue operating under the terms of that contract with respect to the unionized store.

bwestergard 4y ago
They are currently bargaining a first contract.
- collegeburner 4y ago
  so it makes sense they are keeping it for negotiations then.
  - bwestergard 4y ago
    I suppose you could say it "makes sense" if you confine your field of view to one round of bargaining at one employer who is interested in minimizing short-term labor costs. But does it even make sense for Apple managers/investors on a longer time horizon? Is it part of an approach that's good for the wider world?
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 4y ago
      For better or worse we don't globally optimize during an adversarial two party negotiation. We seek a local equilibrium. It's hard to fault apple for this since any other model would ultimately require a reorganized society to work on a long term basis. Apple can't do that unilaterally. And as for the idea of freely giving concessions to unions to avoid bad news cycles: it's been tried and the results are not always fiscally ideal.

pydry 4y ago

It's more likely they will give a better deal overall to the unionized store but they will spin the hell out of it to the non unionized stores that the extra $1k they earn isnt really worth it because they dont get a fossball table, free coffee and bonuses that could be up to $1k. A company I worked for used these kinds of tactics to try and convert contractors into perm. They talked as if the perks were 3-10x as valuable as they actually were. Apple will also probably also try to keep the wages quiet but publicize the perks (or lack thereof) pour decourager les autres.

Alupis 4y ago

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Apple is willing to provide these Employee Perks to everyone, but the Union will still insist on getting something out of their collective bargaining agreement. Therefore this just became the something. It's that simple. Unions are not always automatically a good thing folks. For every good union story out there, there are an equal amount of bad union stories. As a union member, you give up your rights to negotiate things directly with your employer, which include receiving new perks. Now your union has to do the negotiating, and you better hope they get what you want out of it.

threeseed 4y ago
> For every good union story out there, there are an equal amount of bad union stories Do you have empirical evidence for this claim ? Because when you look back over time many fundamental workers rights came from union involvement.
- ejb999 4y ago
  >>Do you have empirical evidence for this claim ? Do you have empirical evidence that this is not true?
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    Yes, they just presented that evidence to you: > Because when you look back over time many fundamental workers rights came from union involvement.
    - Alupis 4y ago
      I don't think we're in any danger now, in 2022 of returning to 18 hour work days and acceptable workplace deaths. Yes, unions helped usher in a new age of employee rights, and we are all thankful for them. However, in the absence of anything real to fight for, unions in the modern day have increasingly become more of a nuisance than a necessity - for both the employee and employer side.