8 ms·

This is an awful decision. I've converted some friends and family to Signal over the past years (it took a while) and it is now their default messaging app on t

This is an awful decision. I've converted some friends and family to Signal over the past years (it took a while) and it is now their default messaging app on their phones. This is going to confuse them and is going to make it difficult for me to keep convincing them that Signal is the route to use. ("Why do I need 3 apps (Android Messages, Signal, Whatsapp) to talk to people?")

JasonFruit 4y ago
I also deplore this. I hope it's communicated well to users who aren't readers of Signal's blog. I have relatives who use Signal, and they rely on its fallback-to-SMS feature, possibly without fully understanding it. I'll make sure they understand and are aware of this change, but others may be in the same position.
- xcdzvyn 4y ago
  I fear Signal will follow their recent trend of ignoring unanimous user-base complaints a la Mobilecoin, fdroid, and third-party clients.
  - fyvhbhn 4y ago
    ... phone number use, lack of interoperability, keeping server source closed when it fits
  - autoexec 4y ago
    That ship sailed a long time ago. Signal's userbase overwhelmingly objected to having their sensitive information permanently stored in the cloud too, but signal ignored them. https://community.signalusers.org/t/dont-want-pin-dont-want-anything-stored-in-cloud/14057/231 https://community.signalusers.org/t/dont-want-pin-dont-want-... Even when security concerns were brought up: https://community.signalusers.org/t/proper-secure-value-security-pins-are-too-easy-to-brute-force-sgx-is-not-reliable-enough/15096 https://community.signalusers.org/t/proper-secure-value-secu...
garciansmith 4y ago
Yes, exactly. The ability to send SMS from the Signal app has meant I've been pretty successful in getting Android users to switch to Signal. Every iOS user I know always just goes back to using iMessage. Now many of those Android users won't bother either.
fyvhbhn 4y ago
> Why do I need 3 apps (Android Messages, Signal, Whatsapp) to talk to people? Because Whatsapp and Signal are walled gardens. (Everyone knows why IM>sms)
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  > Whatsapp and Signal are walled gardens. Until next year? https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220701IPR34364/digital-services-landmark-rules-adopted-for-a-safer-open-online-environment https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220701IP...
  - pmlnr 4y ago
    No. Secrecy will have backdoor keys, but that is not what walled garden means: it means more like people have no power over the decisions made in the garden.
    - folmar 4y ago
      That's what OP was referring to. "... those designated as gatekeepers will have to: allow third parties to inter-operate with their own services, meaning that smaller platforms will be able to request that dominant messaging platforms enable their users to exchange messages, send voice messages or files across messaging apps. ..."
      - dane-pgp 4y ago
        Thank you, I should have clarified that in the original comment. (I admit that I actually edited that original comment, since the link I initially included was more speculative, talking about a law that was expected to pass, and being much more vague about when it might enter into force. The page at the updated link is more definitive, but not as narrowly focused, so I'm glad you managed to isolate the relevant section.)
pmlnr 4y ago
Signal seem to have adopted the "Decisions, not Options"[^1] route way too well, so don't act surprised. This is why we need at least open source clients that can be forked when these decisions are made. [^1]: https://wordpress.org/about/philosophy/ https://wordpress.org/about/philosophy/
- PhasmaFelis 4y ago
  I have never understood why decisions and options have to be mutually exclusive. Yes, you want to have a rock-solid, thoughtfully-design default install for new and casual users. You can still have an advanced control panel with everything a power user could want.
  - pmlnr 4y ago
    It's not mutually exclusive at all, see KDE, but it takes more time, and people will have the option to mess it all up. Taking that factor away - allowing people to mess it up - makes it easier for developers.
    - daedalus_j 4y ago
      KDE is such a great example of how to do it right that I didn't even think of it. It just works so well and so transparently that I forget how great it is sometimes. Rock solid and both works and looks great right out of the box. So customizable that using literally anything else feels like using a Fisher-Price computer for toddlers.
      - javajosh 4y ago
        That review of KDE is so over-the-top it almost reads like satire. Is KDE really that great? (Using Gnome under Ubuntu - no complaints here. But I also am not sure what KDE is giving you. Control over look-and-feel of the windowing environment? Default utility applications? Perhaps a desktop API thick-client programmers can write against?
zuck9 4y ago
Sounds like more messaging app proliferation will lead to services like Texts.com / Matrix get even more popular.
dymk 4y ago
I dunno, all my friends use at least a handful of messaging apps (iMessage, FB messenger, Discord, Telegram, SMS). Sure people grumble about a new messaging app but the younger generation seems to not have an issue adopting new things.
- eatwater123 4y ago
  Yeah, I can understand that; but I've brought over various older family members, and non-tech friends (as in people that wouldn't have ever heard the words Discord or Telegram before in their lives) to Signal. That's who this will impact most.
- usrusr 4y ago
  And while older generations might be less willing to use a high number of apps side by side, having one kind of message in one app and the other kind of message in the other app is still much less confusing to them than dealing with the subtleties of multiprotocol if everything is forced through the single one-size-fits-all interface of a messenger that tries to do SMS on the side.
  - caf 4y ago
    That is exactly how iMessage works and the "older generations" seem to have no problem with that.
- TheNewsIsHere 4y ago
  I wouldn’t frame it as an issue around adopting new things. Some don’t care, some go with the flow, and some prefer to make active choices about these kinds of things. I am very intentional and active when it comes to what has push notification privileges. I factor that into my app use consideration. I have multiple email accounts in two different email apps, each that send me notifications. I have Signal, Discord, iMessages and SMS. I have a few Google chat apps. I used to have WhatsApp and Wickr and Telegram. I have Skype, Teams, and two Mattermost servers. It’s exhausting to constantly switch between these, so over the course of a few years I’ve been very clear in where people can expect to reach me reliably. If you need or want to chat with me on Discord, Skype, or Google whatever you need to send me an iMessage, SMS, Mattermost, or Signal message. Sending me a message anywhere else will get you a response only the next time I open that app. That only happens when someone specifically asks. I’m OK with having 63847394038 chat and video calling apps, but I’m not OK with being instantaneously notified by an infinity such apps. I can’t be that available.
pavon 4y ago
I absolutely agree. Personally, I've managed to convert around 3 times as many Android users as iOS users, because of this feature. And the few people who stopped using Signal after starting using it did so because of limitations in the SMS/MMS features (fewer number of users allowed in group text, etc). I fully expect to loose 2/3 of my Signal contacts as a result of this decision, and may drop it myself if the number remaining is too small to be worth running a separate app, as most of the ones left will probably be on Matrix as well. It also puts a spot-light on the "your phone number is your username" policy. This made perfect sense when you are using Signal for opportunistic encryption of texting. It is much less justifiable when using it as a Silo'd app. I really hope they change that and give people who were waiting for that change time to join before killing SMS support.
- Melatonic 4y ago
  Signal encrypts your regular texts? I thought it specifically did not do that?
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    They say “opportunistic” as in similar to how iMessage works. If you’re both on the platform, it’s encrypted but you still can communicate with everyone else from one app. That’s a major boost for those that might not particularly care about encryption to look for specific messaging apps, while still helping by building out the network slowly over time.
    - tadfisher 4y ago
      The downside is that they will opportunistically send your messages via Signal. If the recipient chooses to not have SIgnal installed any longer, then your messages go into a black hole. This became much more of a problem for me after they rolled out their shitcoin; suddenly my techie friends were just not responding to messages, and Signal as my main SMS app was not falling back to SMS for these folks.
      - 4y ago
andrepd 4y ago
Honestly I'm pretty critical of the Signal app design: from the crypto nonsense, to the removal of chat bubble colors (used to be each person had a color, pretty useful in group chats), to the copious amounts of whitespace that have been linearly increasing for years, to the fact that the design has to change and break familiarity every 6 months or the devs have a stroke. But I actually like this decision. It makes things less confusing and accidental use of unsecure SMS impossible. The downside is if you still use SMS you have to keep 2 apps, back them up separately, etc. > "Why do I need 3 apps (Android Messages, Signal, Whatsapp)" "You need Signal to talk to people on Signal, WhatsApp to talk to people on WhatsApp, and Messages to talk to people on SMS." Seems more straightforward than "use WhatsApp to talk to people on WhatsApp and Signal to talk to people on Signal or SMS; just pay attention to the color of the send button".
- stevemk14ebr 4y ago
  This issue for myself and many others is it makes something that used to be transparent, entirely unsupported. The UX is unambiguously worse. I could trust signal to upgrade my texts for me when possible, or not when my contacts were SMS. I don't care about always being encrypted 100% of the time. Signal was that perfect tradeoff between privacy, and ease of use, which is exceptionally rare. Providing this tradeoff is what made them popular, them going against it is counterproductive and will hurt them badly. I know this because now I'm considering leaving myself.
  - caf 4y ago
    I know this because now I'm considering leaving myself. I feel like I'm not leaving Signal; Signal is leaving me.
Fiahil 4y ago
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  Is the snark and reducing of the parent comment to a “bla bla bla” really necessary? We’re all adults here, we can make a point while treating the other person with respect.
- chasil 4y ago
  Hug of death it is.
chasil 4y ago
I use Silence. It hasn't been updated in a while, but I like the way it looks. I don't know anybody else who uses Silence so I could exchange encrypted messages with them. Oh well. Maybe somebody here could resurrect this? https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.smssecure.smssecure/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.smssecure.smssecure/ https://git.silence.dev/Silence/Silence-Android/ https://git.silence.dev/Silence/Silence-Android/
- Melatonic 4y ago
  Yea this is super cool
- hgomersall 4y ago
  Oh, I initially thought you were make a post-modern geeky witicism or something, but no, it really is a thing.
- WorldPeas 4y ago
  this or briar would be my first choice in jumping ship
Kirby64 4y ago
+1 to this. If Signal drops Android SMS support, I suspect it'll create friction within my friend group that uses it. I do not want yet another app for just text messages. No thank you.
causi 4y ago
This is an awful decision. I've converted some friends and family to Signal over the past years (it took a while) and it is now their default messaging app on their phones. This is going to confuse them and is going to make it difficult for me to keep convincing them that Signal is the route to use. I learned to stop trying to improve the technical lives of other people after Dropbox's decision to restrict free accounts to three devices resulted in a shitstorm of angry and confused messages from half the people I know.
- TheNewsIsHere 4y ago
  You know, I haven’t really thought of it like this. Those for whom I take an interest in their technical lives typically get a spiel from me about whatever solution I’m offering. That spiel often includes something about how “they’ll probably change this eventually in ways no one wants, but the most we can do is speak up. We probably won’t get options.” But I have to admit your perspective calls to me. I can imagine it would feel quite freeing. I’m in a minor mess of a situation with my dad’s phone and computer because I’ve tried to be helpful. Now he resists help and that makes both of us frustrated.
- autoexec 4y ago
  I'm happy to share the best information I have with others and most of them are glad that I do. I had recommended signal to others, but thankfully I've already warned those same people against continuing to use Signal years ago. Nobody was mad at me for Signal's actions and changing your default SMS app isn't hard anyway. I don't think you have to stop recommending things to people just because situations change. Hasn't everybody had some service or software they depended on go from great to shitty? It's just the nature of using someone else's stuff. At some point they get greedy or busy or decide to pivot into something different from what you want and you have to find something new. Isn't everyone used to that? Why would they blame you?
theLastOfCats 4y ago
Why three tho? Use one – Telegram.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  Isn't Telegram partially closed source?
  - _-david-_ 4y ago
    There is an unofficial FOSS version. I'm not sure if it is feature complete, secure, etc. https://github.com/Telegram-FOSS-Team/Telegram-FOSS https://github.com/Telegram-FOSS-Team/Telegram-FOSS
    - folmar 4y ago
      It is. It's the official app with misfeature removed.
      - _-david-_ 4y ago
        It is still unofficial >This is an unofficial, FOSS-friendly fork of the original Telegram App for Android.
- zingplex 4y ago
  I don't think Telegram should really be seen as an alternative to Signal. It doesn't use E2E encryption by default.
- rodgerd 4y ago
  I, too, enjoy sharing my message history with the various Russian intelligence services.
  - theLastOfCats 4y ago
    If you live in US, better to share with FSB/GRU, than FBI/CIA/NSA. The same thing happens, only in reverse, if you live in Soviet Russia. Anyway, there is no need to worrying, MOSSAD watch as all.
matsemann 4y ago
Is this outcry US specific? Don't think I've sent a single SMS the last decade here in EU.
- Macha 4y ago
  Do you use Signal in the EU? Seems to be either WhatsApp or Telegram depending on how west or east you are.
- ascorbic 4y ago
  The US seems to be the only place where everyone uses iMessage, so Android users have to use SMS and suffer the bizarre shaming of the green bubble. In most countries outside the US, WhatsApp seems to be the default. SMS is just legacy 2FA messages, and various other transactional messages like parcel delivery notifications.
- godelski 4y ago
  I'm guessing. Though I'm in the US but also in grad school. With a large number of foreign students there are similarly a large number of WhatsApp, Telegram, and WeChat users. I suspect this problem is very Americentric. India was able to get all its old people to use WhatsApp and multiple apps, I think there is a bit of an overreaction going on here. You'd think the world is ending for a feature most people didn't know existed (despite it being a prompt during signup).
numpad0 4y ago
Should offering both service and its client app be regulated?
- nichos 4y ago
  By whom?
senectus1 4y ago
I'm conflicted. I understand why they have made this decision... but it sucks when it comes to introducing people to secure messaging.
zeagle 4y ago
I think I've burned a lot of social goodwill switching my family and close friends to signal and have no desire to support them through yet another change.
bobbylarrybobby 4y ago
Furthermore it will hurt your reputation as someone who knows about messaging apps altogether

JasonFruit 4y ago

I also deplore this. I hope it's communicated well to users who aren't readers of Signal's blog. I have relatives who use Signal, and they rely on its fallback-to-SMS feature, possibly without fully understanding it. I'll make sure they understand and are aware of this change, but others may be in the same position.

xcdzvyn 4y ago
I fear Signal will follow their recent trend of ignoring unanimous user-base complaints a la Mobilecoin, fdroid, and third-party clients.
- fyvhbhn 4y ago
  ... phone number use, lack of interoperability, keeping server source closed when it fits
- autoexec 4y ago
  That ship sailed a long time ago. Signal's userbase overwhelmingly objected to having their sensitive information permanently stored in the cloud too, but signal ignored them. https://community.signalusers.org/t/dont-want-pin-dont-want-anything-stored-in-cloud/14057/231 https://community.signalusers.org/t/dont-want-pin-dont-want-... Even when security concerns were brought up: https://community.signalusers.org/t/proper-secure-value-security-pins-are-too-easy-to-brute-force-sgx-is-not-reliable-enough/15096 https://community.signalusers.org/t/proper-secure-value-secu...

garciansmith 4y ago

Yes, exactly. The ability to send SMS from the Signal app has meant I've been pretty successful in getting Android users to switch to Signal. Every iOS user I know always just goes back to using iMessage. Now many of those Android users won't bother either.

fyvhbhn 4y ago

> Why do I need 3 apps (Android Messages, Signal, Whatsapp) to talk to people? Because Whatsapp and Signal are walled gardens. (Everyone knows why IM>sms)

dane-pgp 4y ago
> Whatsapp and Signal are walled gardens. Until next year? https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220701IPR34364/digital-services-landmark-rules-adopted-for-a-safer-open-online-environment https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220701IP...
- pmlnr 4y ago
  No. Secrecy will have backdoor keys, but that is not what walled garden means: it means more like people have no power over the decisions made in the garden.
  - folmar 4y ago
    That's what OP was referring to. "... those designated as gatekeepers will have to: allow third parties to inter-operate with their own services, meaning that smaller platforms will be able to request that dominant messaging platforms enable their users to exchange messages, send voice messages or files across messaging apps. ..."
    - dane-pgp 4y ago
      Thank you, I should have clarified that in the original comment. (I admit that I actually edited that original comment, since the link I initially included was more speculative, talking about a law that was expected to pass, and being much more vague about when it might enter into force. The page at the updated link is more definitive, but not as narrowly focused, so I'm glad you managed to isolate the relevant section.)

pmlnr 4y ago

Signal seem to have adopted the "Decisions, not Options"[^1] route way too well, so don't act surprised. This is why we need at least open source clients that can be forked when these decisions are made. [^1]: https://wordpress.org/about/philosophy/ https://wordpress.org/about/philosophy/

PhasmaFelis 4y ago
I have never understood why decisions and options have to be mutually exclusive. Yes, you want to have a rock-solid, thoughtfully-design default install for new and casual users. You can still have an advanced control panel with everything a power user could want.
- pmlnr 4y ago
  It's not mutually exclusive at all, see KDE, but it takes more time, and people will have the option to mess it all up. Taking that factor away - allowing people to mess it up - makes it easier for developers.
  - daedalus_j 4y ago
    KDE is such a great example of how to do it right that I didn't even think of it. It just works so well and so transparently that I forget how great it is sometimes. Rock solid and both works and looks great right out of the box. So customizable that using literally anything else feels like using a Fisher-Price computer for toddlers.
    - javajosh 4y ago
      That review of KDE is so over-the-top it almost reads like satire. Is KDE really that great? (Using Gnome under Ubuntu - no complaints here. But I also am not sure what KDE is giving you. Control over look-and-feel of the windowing environment? Default utility applications? Perhaps a desktop API thick-client programmers can write against?

zuck9 4y ago

Sounds like more messaging app proliferation will lead to services like Texts.com / Matrix get even more popular.

dymk 4y ago

I dunno, all my friends use at least a handful of messaging apps (iMessage, FB messenger, Discord, Telegram, SMS). Sure people grumble about a new messaging app but the younger generation seems to not have an issue adopting new things.

eatwater123 4y ago
Yeah, I can understand that; but I've brought over various older family members, and non-tech friends (as in people that wouldn't have ever heard the words Discord or Telegram before in their lives) to Signal. That's who this will impact most.
usrusr 4y ago
And while older generations might be less willing to use a high number of apps side by side, having one kind of message in one app and the other kind of message in the other app is still much less confusing to them than dealing with the subtleties of multiprotocol if everything is forced through the single one-size-fits-all interface of a messenger that tries to do SMS on the side.
- caf 4y ago
  That is exactly how iMessage works and the "older generations" seem to have no problem with that.
TheNewsIsHere 4y ago
I wouldn’t frame it as an issue around adopting new things. Some don’t care, some go with the flow, and some prefer to make active choices about these kinds of things. I am very intentional and active when it comes to what has push notification privileges. I factor that into my app use consideration. I have multiple email accounts in two different email apps, each that send me notifications. I have Signal, Discord, iMessages and SMS. I have a few Google chat apps. I used to have WhatsApp and Wickr and Telegram. I have Skype, Teams, and two Mattermost servers. It’s exhausting to constantly switch between these, so over the course of a few years I’ve been very clear in where people can expect to reach me reliably. If you need or want to chat with me on Discord, Skype, or Google whatever you need to send me an iMessage, SMS, Mattermost, or Signal message. Sending me a message anywhere else will get you a response only the next time I open that app. That only happens when someone specifically asks. I’m OK with having 63847394038 chat and video calling apps, but I’m not OK with being instantaneously notified by an infinity such apps. I can’t be that available.

pavon 4y ago

I absolutely agree. Personally, I've managed to convert around 3 times as many Android users as iOS users, because of this feature. And the few people who stopped using Signal after starting using it did so because of limitations in the SMS/MMS features (fewer number of users allowed in group text, etc). I fully expect to loose 2/3 of my Signal contacts as a result of this decision, and may drop it myself if the number remaining is too small to be worth running a separate app, as most of the ones left will probably be on Matrix as well. It also puts a spot-light on the "your phone number is your username" policy. This made perfect sense when you are using Signal for opportunistic encryption of texting. It is much less justifiable when using it as a Silo'd app. I really hope they change that and give people who were waiting for that change time to join before killing SMS support.

Melatonic 4y ago
Signal encrypts your regular texts? I thought it specifically did not do that?
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  They say “opportunistic” as in similar to how iMessage works. If you’re both on the platform, it’s encrypted but you still can communicate with everyone else from one app. That’s a major boost for those that might not particularly care about encryption to look for specific messaging apps, while still helping by building out the network slowly over time.
  - tadfisher 4y ago
    The downside is that they will opportunistically send your messages via Signal. If the recipient chooses to not have SIgnal installed any longer, then your messages go into a black hole. This became much more of a problem for me after they rolled out their shitcoin; suddenly my techie friends were just not responding to messages, and Signal as my main SMS app was not falling back to SMS for these folks.
    - 4y ago

andrepd 4y ago

Honestly I'm pretty critical of the Signal app design: from the crypto nonsense, to the removal of chat bubble colors (used to be each person had a color, pretty useful in group chats), to the copious amounts of whitespace that have been linearly increasing for years, to the fact that the design has to change and break familiarity every 6 months or the devs have a stroke. But I actually like this decision. It makes things less confusing and accidental use of unsecure SMS impossible. The downside is if you still use SMS you have to keep 2 apps, back them up separately, etc. > "Why do I need 3 apps (Android Messages, Signal, Whatsapp)" "You need Signal to talk to people on Signal, WhatsApp to talk to people on WhatsApp, and Messages to talk to people on SMS." Seems more straightforward than "use WhatsApp to talk to people on WhatsApp and Signal to talk to people on Signal or SMS; just pay attention to the color of the send button".

stevemk14ebr 4y ago
This issue for myself and many others is it makes something that used to be transparent, entirely unsupported. The UX is unambiguously worse. I could trust signal to upgrade my texts for me when possible, or not when my contacts were SMS. I don't care about always being encrypted 100% of the time. Signal was that perfect tradeoff between privacy, and ease of use, which is exceptionally rare. Providing this tradeoff is what made them popular, them going against it is counterproductive and will hurt them badly. I know this because now I'm considering leaving myself.
- caf 4y ago
  I know this because now I'm considering leaving myself. I feel like I'm not leaving Signal; Signal is leaving me.

Fiahil 4y ago

mynameisvlad 4y ago
Is the snark and reducing of the parent comment to a “bla bla bla” really necessary? We’re all adults here, we can make a point while treating the other person with respect.
chasil 4y ago
Hug of death it is.

chasil 4y ago

I use Silence. It hasn't been updated in a while, but I like the way it looks. I don't know anybody else who uses Silence so I could exchange encrypted messages with them. Oh well. Maybe somebody here could resurrect this? https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.smssecure.smssecure/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.smssecure.smssecure/ https://git.silence.dev/Silence/Silence-Android/ https://git.silence.dev/Silence/Silence-Android/

Melatonic 4y ago
Yea this is super cool
hgomersall 4y ago
Oh, I initially thought you were make a post-modern geeky witicism or something, but no, it really is a thing.
WorldPeas 4y ago
this or briar would be my first choice in jumping ship

Kirby64 4y ago

+1 to this. If Signal drops Android SMS support, I suspect it'll create friction within my friend group that uses it. I do not want yet another app for just text messages. No thank you.

causi 4y ago

This is an awful decision. I've converted some friends and family to Signal over the past years (it took a while) and it is now their default messaging app on their phones. This is going to confuse them and is going to make it difficult for me to keep convincing them that Signal is the route to use. I learned to stop trying to improve the technical lives of other people after Dropbox's decision to restrict free accounts to three devices resulted in a shitstorm of angry and confused messages from half the people I know.

TheNewsIsHere 4y ago
You know, I haven’t really thought of it like this. Those for whom I take an interest in their technical lives typically get a spiel from me about whatever solution I’m offering. That spiel often includes something about how “they’ll probably change this eventually in ways no one wants, but the most we can do is speak up. We probably won’t get options.” But I have to admit your perspective calls to me. I can imagine it would feel quite freeing. I’m in a minor mess of a situation with my dad’s phone and computer because I’ve tried to be helpful. Now he resists help and that makes both of us frustrated.
autoexec 4y ago
I'm happy to share the best information I have with others and most of them are glad that I do. I had recommended signal to others, but thankfully I've already warned those same people against continuing to use Signal years ago. Nobody was mad at me for Signal's actions and changing your default SMS app isn't hard anyway. I don't think you have to stop recommending things to people just because situations change. Hasn't everybody had some service or software they depended on go from great to shitty? It's just the nature of using someone else's stuff. At some point they get greedy or busy or decide to pivot into something different from what you want and you have to find something new. Isn't everyone used to that? Why would they blame you?

theLastOfCats 4y ago

Why three tho? Use one – Telegram.

bee_rider 4y ago
Isn't Telegram partially closed source?
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  There is an unofficial FOSS version. I'm not sure if it is feature complete, secure, etc. https://github.com/Telegram-FOSS-Team/Telegram-FOSS https://github.com/Telegram-FOSS-Team/Telegram-FOSS
  - folmar 4y ago
    It is. It's the official app with misfeature removed.
    - _-david-_ 4y ago
      It is still unofficial >This is an unofficial, FOSS-friendly fork of the original Telegram App for Android.
zingplex 4y ago
I don't think Telegram should really be seen as an alternative to Signal. It doesn't use E2E encryption by default.
rodgerd 4y ago
I, too, enjoy sharing my message history with the various Russian intelligence services.
- theLastOfCats 4y ago
  If you live in US, better to share with FSB/GRU, than FBI/CIA/NSA. The same thing happens, only in reverse, if you live in Soviet Russia. Anyway, there is no need to worrying, MOSSAD watch as all.

matsemann 4y ago

Is this outcry US specific? Don't think I've sent a single SMS the last decade here in EU.

Macha 4y ago
Do you use Signal in the EU? Seems to be either WhatsApp or Telegram depending on how west or east you are.
ascorbic 4y ago
The US seems to be the only place where everyone uses iMessage, so Android users have to use SMS and suffer the bizarre shaming of the green bubble. In most countries outside the US, WhatsApp seems to be the default. SMS is just legacy 2FA messages, and various other transactional messages like parcel delivery notifications.
godelski 4y ago
I'm guessing. Though I'm in the US but also in grad school. With a large number of foreign students there are similarly a large number of WhatsApp, Telegram, and WeChat users. I suspect this problem is very Americentric. India was able to get all its old people to use WhatsApp and multiple apps, I think there is a bit of an overreaction going on here. You'd think the world is ending for a feature most people didn't know existed (despite it being a prompt during signup).

numpad0 4y ago

Should offering both service and its client app be regulated?

nichos 4y ago
By whom?

senectus1 4y ago

I'm conflicted. I understand why they have made this decision... but it sucks when it comes to introducing people to secure messaging.

zeagle 4y ago

I think I've burned a lot of social goodwill switching my family and close friends to signal and have no desire to support them through yet another change.

bobbylarrybobby 4y ago

Furthermore it will hurt your reputation as someone who knows about messaging apps altogether