7 ms·

They made a mistake to keep using the JVM.. They should have went with kotlin-native from the start EDIT: Ok i gave it a try, so far very responsive, typing

They made a mistake to keep using the JVM.. They should have went with kotlin-native from the start EDIT: Ok i gave it a try, so far very responsive, typing latency feels much better than vscode, overall i like the UX, they kept it simple yet very well organized Much better than vscode already, congrats!

vips7L 4y ago
Kotlin native is barely usable... it doesn't even have a standard library.
speed_spread 4y ago
Native code makes it much harder to design a runtime plugin system. Also, other than fast startup and lower memory usage, native code does not make the app faster.
- Kukumber 4y ago
  > Native code makes it much harder to design a runtime plugin system That's not true, lua, lua-jit, quickjs, v8, c#, even java Game engines already have the lead in that area and they proved that it's possible and can be made very efficient The UI and host of the program should be native to maximize performance Native code helps write fast code that runs fast with optimized memory layouts
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    > Game engines already have the lead in that area and they proved that it's possible and can be made very efficient Game engines basically implement their own "runtime". They all have stuff like memory management, scripting languages (and usually plugins use the scripting API), and the game is just a package of assets and code that are run by the engine...
  - speed_spread 4y ago
    > lua, lua-jit, quickjs, v8, c#, even java Huh? None of these are compiled to native code ahead of time. By definition using a JIT compiler is not making things "native", it's just a way of making a very fast interpreter. Those languages you mention are used in gaming precisely because of their dynamic qualities compensating for the rigidness of the otherwise C++ based engines.
    - Kukumber 4y ago
      you don't understand, they are examples of scripting languages used in game engines
- vips7L 4y ago
  And if OP is concerned with latency, you're not going to beat the JVM's latency sensitive GC's.
- MatthiasPortzel 4y ago
  I don’t know what you’re looking at, but time-to-start is a huge factor for me. If I’m using a program as a text editor (as opposed to an IDE), I want to be able to open a file, edit it, and then close it. When I heard JetBrains was working on a lightweight text editor, I was hoping for something I could use in this way, but Fleet takes 5 seconds to launch and auto-closes after closing all files. So I’m a little disappointed.
  - speed_spread 4y ago
    Fleet is not a text editor, it's a full fledged web-based IDE. I don't know what your workflow is, but my IDE generally stays open all day long and so startup is irrelevant. And if that web UI was to actually run remotely on some cloud server (gasp), the I assume that fresh instances of it could at least be pre-pooled for an even quicker "startup". If all I needed was a quick text editor, obviously I would stick with Notepad++ or Sublime or Kate or... Nothing wrong with that, and actually much saner than the new web-based stuff IMHO.
    - Kukumber 4y ago
      Type text on Fleet, move your mouse around and notice how much CPU it eats One entire core just for typing text and moving your mouse If you use a laptop to code, it'll eat your battery in no time If you compile programs, it'll slow down your builds That's why i don't want no java on my computer or any other JIT based BS or slow tech stack like the JVM, wich was made for servers not for latency SENSITIVE programs such as a TEXT editor where i TYPE text and where i need my cores to BUILD or to do STATIC ANALYSIS

vips7L 4y ago

Kotlin native is barely usable... it doesn't even have a standard library.

speed_spread 4y ago

Native code makes it much harder to design a runtime plugin system. Also, other than fast startup and lower memory usage, native code does not make the app faster.

Kukumber 4y ago
> Native code makes it much harder to design a runtime plugin system That's not true, lua, lua-jit, quickjs, v8, c#, even java Game engines already have the lead in that area and they proved that it's possible and can be made very efficient The UI and host of the program should be native to maximize performance Native code helps write fast code that runs fast with optimized memory layouts
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  > Game engines already have the lead in that area and they proved that it's possible and can be made very efficient Game engines basically implement their own "runtime". They all have stuff like memory management, scripting languages (and usually plugins use the scripting API), and the game is just a package of assets and code that are run by the engine...
- speed_spread 4y ago
  > lua, lua-jit, quickjs, v8, c#, even java Huh? None of these are compiled to native code ahead of time. By definition using a JIT compiler is not making things "native", it's just a way of making a very fast interpreter. Those languages you mention are used in gaming precisely because of their dynamic qualities compensating for the rigidness of the otherwise C++ based engines.
  - Kukumber 4y ago
    you don't understand, they are examples of scripting languages used in game engines
vips7L 4y ago
And if OP is concerned with latency, you're not going to beat the JVM's latency sensitive GC's.
MatthiasPortzel 4y ago
I don’t know what you’re looking at, but time-to-start is a huge factor for me. If I’m using a program as a text editor (as opposed to an IDE), I want to be able to open a file, edit it, and then close it. When I heard JetBrains was working on a lightweight text editor, I was hoping for something I could use in this way, but Fleet takes 5 seconds to launch and auto-closes after closing all files. So I’m a little disappointed.
- speed_spread 4y ago
  Fleet is not a text editor, it's a full fledged web-based IDE. I don't know what your workflow is, but my IDE generally stays open all day long and so startup is irrelevant. And if that web UI was to actually run remotely on some cloud server (gasp), the I assume that fresh instances of it could at least be pre-pooled for an even quicker "startup". If all I needed was a quick text editor, obviously I would stick with Notepad++ or Sublime or Kate or... Nothing wrong with that, and actually much saner than the new web-based stuff IMHO.
  - Kukumber 4y ago
    Type text on Fleet, move your mouse around and notice how much CPU it eats One entire core just for typing text and moving your mouse If you use a laptop to code, it'll eat your battery in no time If you compile programs, it'll slow down your builds That's why i don't want no java on my computer or any other JIT based BS or slow tech stack like the JVM, wich was made for servers not for latency SENSITIVE programs such as a TEXT editor where i TYPE text and where i need my cores to BUILD or to do STATIC ANALYSIS